Weight pulling is absolutely not cruel unless you do it wrong and injure your dog. You have to work up to it, as with any sport, and you have to keep your dog in top condition with proper muscle.

Those dogs who compete in weight pulling LOVE it. That's why they pull so well!

 

Dog's have a working face, that occasionally looks like they aren't having fun, when really they are putting their everything into it. Take a look at the dogs going up to the weight pull if you can.

Also, a) border collies aren't infallible in agility. Running clean is just a valid strategy as running fast. b) if you are doing it for fun/casually, why would it matter what other dogs do?

Dock diving or barn hunt are two other sports you may want to look into.

 

I'm going to get a weight pull harness and start introducing weights to my dog once she's full grown. If you slowly condition the dog to it (mentally AND physically) it isn't cruel. I doubt the dogs would put forth the effort they do in competitions if they truly hated it. I suspect they'd more likely shut down than dig in and give it all they got!

And don't rule out agility! In my agility class there isn't a single Border Collie and they all love it and have a blast. There is a variety of breeds in my class (a Golden, Standard Poodle, a Jack, a German Shepherd, a Malinois, and my Husky/German Shepherd cross) and each has their own strengths, weaknesses, and running style. For example, my dog is a lot faster than the Golden. But she can be pretty reckless and knocks bars more often than the Golden too.

 

Also: maybe check out Rally, Lure Coursing, and Scent Detection. Those are super fun, great for fostering your bond, and require little equipment.

 

@beretw might be a great person to get perspective on as she does weight pulling with Garp.

Also I'm also one to say don't rule out agility. I had a 3 year old not graceful lab when I started and now she is great at it. Honestly if I was half as good as she is we could be great!

 

Then there's 'dancing with your dog competitions' : )

Stormy

 

To answer your bikejoring question, that depends on your local laws. In my area, for example, bicycles are considered vehicles and are not allowed on sidewalks, but must be ridden on either roads or trails (a trail is defined as a separated pathway, paved or not, on which no motorized vehicles are permitted). In practice, I've never heard of anyone actually getting a ticket for riding on the sidewalk, mostly because it's safer in many areas. You can check with your local DMV to ask for a handbook of bicycle laws relevant to your area. Note that cities/towns may have different laws than your county, which you need to observe when within municipal limits.

Other than the legal concerns, I'd say it makes sense to ride in any low-traffic area with a road type you prefer, whether that means a country or suburban road where you share the space with occasional passing cars or a dirt or paved trail where no cars are allowed. It all depends on your and your dog's comfort level.

 

Agility would help cure the clumsies, you know. And who cares what the other dogs are doing? As long as your dog has fun, that's all that counts. Any person who says otherwise is in agility for all the wrong reasons. (Not saying you won't meet those people, but just ignore them.)

 

what if the person is clumsy? I have dyspraxia/developmental coordination disorder I want to try dog sports with the future pup but perhaps I should go with obedience or scent rather than agility onder:Im not a very confident runner.

 

Agility isn't just for border collies I know that's probably the impression one would get seeing competitions on TV. But really those are just people who are VERY serious about agility, so everything they do is about speed. They very likely even bought the dog from specific lines JUST because they knew it was going to be a fast dog.

I'm not sure about other venues, but with AKC, the point system is set up so it's not all about speed. It's also about running cleanly and accurately. I know people who've put high titles on corgis who just sorta waddle around lol. Speed is still clocked, but it's to qualify individuals for competitions that are about speed. That's why you don't see slower dogs in AKC Nationals.

 

Agility in the US is set up so that all kinds of dogs can advance and do well and earn titles. Being super duper fast is only necessary for people trying to win nationals or go to worlds. You can even earn championship titles with a moderate, consistent dog. There's plenty of fun to be had too.

I did agility with my elderly papillon for 3 years. She earned 5 titles but most of all we had a blast.

 

Have you thought about whether you and your dog might enjoy therapy work? The AKC offers titles in therapy now too, if you're interested in acquiring AKC titles, and certified therapy dog groups offer titles as well.

I haven't done rally myself, but it sounds like an interesting way to give competitive dog sports a try. Certainly you could move on and do other sports from there too. Also, someone who's involved in rally please correct me if I'm wrong, but can't you do novice rally on lead? To me, that would be reassuring if I were trying something entirely new that I wasn't sure my dog would like.

I gave my own dog an opportunity to try agility obstacles once. He seemed fine with anything that involved climbing and probably would have been okay with the weave polls, had he not been on a lead (it was a very crowded dog event and given the number of dogs there I did not know, I wasn't comfortable letting him off lead to mix with dogs whose behavior I'd never seen). But when he got to the hurdles, he was willing to go over the first through the third for the promise of a treat, but when he got to the fourth, and the treat was still not forthcoming, he knocked over the fourth hurdle with his paw, walked over it, sat down and looked up at me with a very definite "Okay, that's it. I'm not doing twelve of these for one lousy treat" look on his face. He was also a very deliberate worker. In other words, he didn't see the point of trying to hurry through any of it, though that's his attitude generally. If it's not something that really gets him pumped up, like fetching a ball or chasing a cat out of his yard (he's perfectly pleasant to cats in their yards/homes but just doesn't want random strange cats in his own yard), he's more likely to move at a stroll than a mad run.

 

I gave my own dog an opportunity to try agility obstacles once. He seemed fine with anything that involved climbing and probably would have been okay with the weave polls, had he not been on a lead (it was a very crowded dog event and given the number of dogs there I did not know, I wasn't comfortable letting him off lead to mix with dogs whose behavior I'd never seen). But when he got to the hurdles, he was willing to go over the first through the third for the promise of a treat, but when he got to the fourth, and the treat was still not forthcoming, he knocked over the fourth hurdle with his paw, walked over it, sat down and looked up at me with a very definite "Okay, that's it. I'm not doing twelve of these for one lousy treat" look on his face. He was also a very deliberate worker. In other words, he didn't see the point of trying to hurry through any of it, though that's his attitude generally. If it's not something that really gets him pumped up, like fetching a ball or chasing a cat out of his yard (he's perfectly pleasant to cats in their yards/homes but just doesn't want random strange cats in his own yard), he's more likely to move at a stroll than a mad run.

I just wanted to point out that 99% of dogs would have had the same reaction as yours to a situation like you described. It doesn't mean they wouldn't enjoy agility though.

You can't really just lead a dog around the obstacles and expect them to be excited. A few dogs will get the thrill of just doing things but it will be a disaster still. But most dogs aren't going to be motivated by doing equipment on its own right at first. We spend a lot of time working on getting the dog 'pumped up' as you said.

If your dog is healthy and likes food or toys (or both!) you can do agility with them. Heck if there's anything your dog likes and gets excited about you can do agility.

Agility requires a lot of tiny pieces of training put together. I've been working my dog for about 5 months and would not expect him to do 12 jumps in a row at this point. We don't even see jumps till a ways in (7 weeks I think here...) And then it is only 1-2 jumps for a long while until they understand it and are doing the jumps excitedly and with speed.

 

i think it depends on the breed, the individual dog and how you you let the dog pull.
if you do it right, then it can be fun for the dog.

 

I don't think i will try weight pulling with a toy poodle

 

You can do agility without being fast yourself. It certainly can help if you're able to run but at most levels you can compete without. There was a lady with one leg running a fast dog at akc nationals when I went to watch. I have a friend that does agility and she is in a wheelchair.

With fast dog and slow handlers you will need distance work though.

 

Therapy work...why didn't I think of that? My partner is a nurse! That would be perfect!

What kinds of things would be involved?

 

The first thing I would do is check to see what therapy dog organizations are active in your area. In my case, Therapy Dog International was the only one testing and certifying therapy dogs in the area, but there are other similar fine organizations out there. You could also check the AKC site and see which therapy organizations they recognize if you're interested in AKC titles. The AKC will also grant CGC and CGCA through the therapy organizations they recognize because the therapy dog tests cover the same things those tests cover plus a few extra things specific to therapy work (at least that's the case with TDI. and I would imagine it's the same with all the organizations they recognize).

Then I'd look at the websites for the organizations available to you, particularly those of the local chapters, to see which ones might best suit you and your dog. In my case, the local TDI chapter had a four week therapy dog manners class for $20. Dogs have to have basic obedience training prior to that class, which focuses more on the behaviors necessary to be a successful therapy team. The last class was also a mock test in the very facility where the test would be administered--all classes were held there too, which was helpful in keeping everyone's nerves in check during the test (though, honestly, I'd say the human handlers were more nervous than the dogs, who probably didn't know or care that it was a test and not just a regular class, since they were being asked to do the same things they'd been asked to do in the last class period). The test itself was an additional $5. Prices are going to vary by organization and area, but most organizations are going to have a limit as to what can be charged, since they don't want to discourage people from trying to become therapy dog teams because of the cost. The tests are all or nothing tests--if your dog fails one portion of the test, he/she fails the test entirely--but they can be taken as many times as is necessary for the dog to pass. The websites for the organizations should indicate what the their tests entail. For instance, in the case of TDI, dogs need to be able to be left with a friendly stranger while the handler leaves the building for three minutes; they need to react calmly to various distractions (pots being thrown, people running past them, kids playing ten feet away from them etc.); they need to be willing to go to people in wheelchairs or on walkers/crutches; they need to allow their handler to meet another handler/dog team calmly; they need to walk past treats lying on the floor when told to "leave it" etc. The nice thing about the manners class was that you got to practice all of that, as they had volunteers walking around on crutches or wheeling wheelchairs past the dogs as well as kids riding around on scooters etc. Really, they made the class distractions a lot harder than the test--they literally threw treats at the dogs as they walked by so that the dogs couldn't possibly miss the fact that there was food available for the taking when practicing the "leave it" portion of the test--which made the actual test that much easier for my dog.

You might also want to take a look at what sorts of organizations the local therapy groups are working with, which might include everything from reading to dogs programs at local elementary schools to therapy programs in memory care units. I'm actually in the midst of helping organize a regular therapy dog program at a local college that's had an end of semester stress relief therapy dog program for a few years. What you do is really going to be determined by what you and your dog enjoy--and my dog happens to recognize college students as "his people," particularly the young women who tend to coo over him more than the guys. Since you mentioned that your partner is a nurse, I'd also like to point out that many hospitals have therapy dog programs in various departments--like pediatrics and rehab, for instance. They're also used in hospice programs.

 

@agilityk9trainer competes at national level with her shelties and she does distance handling, which means that she's not running a whole lot like usual. She trainer her dogs so she can instruct them where to go from further away. I've seem other distance agility videos where the handler liters rally stays in one spot on the field and calls everything out. It's all really impressive. If you can run, run. But you can do agity even if you're slower or can't run!

 

I just wanted to add that any dog activity can be a wonderful or a miserable experience for a dog depending on the associations they have with it. Yes, particularly competitive or ambitious people with a poor understanding of dog behavior/psychology may turn to coercive methods in order to get what they perceive to be good results with their dog. This is not limited to any one sport: if you ask some members involved with field trials and hunting, they can definitely tell you a thing or two about miserable dogs (shock collar use is widespread in the world of gun dogs). Another one that comes to mind for me is when I see detection dogs at the nearest border crossing. I can get a good idea of how they have been trained just by watching them from the car: they slink around as though they have been kicked, ears back, commissures showing, straining anxiously on their choke chains (to which I would ask, why should a 'professionally' trained dog even need a choke?!).

On the other end of the spectrum, I see a lot of dogs really bloom when enrolled in a sport. Most particularly, I remember seeing a weight-pull demo at the fair years ago. As soon as the dogs were harnessed they started jumping and wiggling and yipping excitedly. Then they got hitched to their weights. No fear of crowds, whatsoever. Their handlers were at the 'finish line', getting them amped up. They would thump the floor, and over at the start the dogs would launch themselves about 3 feet vertically LMAO. Then they got the go-ahead to pull. This was not what I would call a 'easy' environment: there were shouting kids and cheering crowds and everything else that comes with a fairground. This did not phase the dogs whatsoever. If anything, they drew from it. They gave it everything they had, and got huge cheers and applause at the end, and most importantly a bit of loving from their handlers. Happy, happy dogs. I will always remember how thrilled they looked to be the 'heroes' before the crowd.

 

I thought of weight pulling, but my partner saw some videos of weight pulling dogs and thought the dogs looked miserable.

No, it is not that they are miserable, it's that they are trying hard.

. Agility might be fun casually, but I know that he wouldn't stand a chance against those border collies (he's just too clumsy).

I think it is silly to rule out a sport just because you feel there are some dogs that are better at it than yours. There is always someone (or some dog) better. You don't expect your dog to be able to beat the World Grand Champion of Agility, right? So what does it matter if at the local level a couple BCs take top honors?

Additionally, I think it's much better to start with competing in basic Obedience, then work up to Rally, and then from there consider your options.

Have you thought of dock-jumping as a sport? What about nose-work? Teach him to ride a skateboard? How about Canine Freestyle Dance? (Yes it is a real thing)


https://youtu.be/HN38ZiLbc0g?t=2m22s

 

No, it is not that they are miserable, it's that they are trying hard.



I think it is silly to rule out a sport just because you feel there are some dogs that are better at it than yours. There is always someone (or some dog) better. You don't expect your dog to be able to beat the World Grand Champion of Agility, right? So what does it matter if at the local level a couple BCs take top honors?

Additionally, I think it's much better to start with competing in basic Obedience, then work up to Rally, and then from there consider your options.

Have you thought of dock-jumping as a sport? What about nose-work? Teach him to ride a skateboard? How about Canine Freestyle Dance? (Yes it is a real thing)


https://youtu.be/HN38ZiLbc0g?t=2m22s

I have to disagree with the bold..Cross-sport training is actually quite challenging, and I'm not sure I'd advise that for somebody just starting dog sports. If you train formal competition obedience first, you establish certain habits that will hurt you in agility and you end up spending twice as much time "undoing" what you worked so hard to achieve to get titles in obedience. You don't WANT your dog glued to your side in agility, but that's the habit that you train.

Another example is doing flyball and agility. If you train flyball first, you teach the dog a low extension over jumps, which will lead to knocked bars in agility. If you teach a dog agility first, the dog will learn lower extensions and get more height over the hurdles, which will mess up it's timing and make it take extra steps when running flyball.

Some basic obedience is always 100% necessary. But competing in obedience is a different world and not really a good precurser or stepping stone to competing in other sports. If one wants to do multiple sports, there are different tactics to take to making the transition from one sport into a new one easier for the dog.

 

I doubt flygility will end up at the same competitive level as flyball and agility. I do think it's neat that they are creating things like frisgility and flygility and such but I just don't know that they'll have the traction the others will.

I know some people that do a lot of sports. I personally have participated in 3-4 with most my dogs. But I'm not really competitive with any of them. We do (did) compete and that's the plan with Hank but I'm not aiming for rankings or anything.

We tried flyball but that is just too much for me to do with agility. Practices are at similar times and committing to trialing in both would be hard.

I do like some of the more instinct based sports. There's not much training involved- it's a see if they enjoy it or not. Like lure coursing and barn hunting. I also do nosework with all 3 and it's fun too (not as fun for me but the dogs like it)

 

I am not a competitive person by nature myself, so that may be warping the lens through which I view dog sports.

Additionally, as can be seen here, not all dogs are equally trainable within a breed
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l6ioGb8IQlI

I can kind of understand how the specific details of one sport might give a bit of a pause when something different is encountered in another sporty...but a lot of my NON SPORT experience says otherwise.

I grew up around working farm dogs. Dogs always drove the cattle in toward the south side of the barn. New concrete was poured on the south side, so for a few weeks cattle came in on the west side. Yes, it took a little bit to correct the dog and have him bring them in on the different side, but it was no problem, and not a problem when we switched back...and not a problem a few years later when we put up a different structure for the cattle. The challenge of occasionally switching it up probably made for a smarter, more adaptable dog.

We only had a small herd of cattle, more for fun and for keeping the grove eaten down. We added some Chianina cattle. They are actually named for Chiana Valley of Tuscany, Italy but the joke was '"Chianina is Italian for 'your going to need a bigger fence'" because these cattle are some of the tallest in the world and quite 'intense'. The approach that worked with our laid back shorthorn/angus mixes did NOT work with these, and so our dog had to adapt.

Our dogs would accompany us out to the fields, and a tractor in road-gear can move a bit faster than a dog, so our dogs on their own started to run towards where they THOUGHT that we were going to get a head start when we were maneuvering from the yard to the road (slow, lots of turns, dog was much faster at that). Dogs would look back to see if they made the right call. It was clear that our smartest dog took all sorts of things into account including which tractor, equipment (Bean Bar vs Flatbed vs Sprayer, not so much recognizing the two different sprayers or a cullivator vs disk) but mainly I think by remembering what fields we had been to and finished, and knew we generally did all the fields where we would turn south first and the fields where we would turn north 2nd, so he'd identify if it was the same tractor/equipment combo as last time (If not, reset, go to field 1) and if so, remember which field we were working at last (fields 1, 2, 3, = south, field 4 and 5, north) and if we had finished that field (were at field 3, not finished, go south! vs were at field 3, done, go north!). I am quite confident this was the system he used, because we could predict when he would predict wrong, and it was when we were breaking our pattern.

I could go on and on with stories like this, so for me I totally get where the very first time a dog who knows flyball runs agility hurdles may do it the way he always did and fowl up, but I can't imagine it would take more than a few training sessions to get him squared away, and then bring him back to the flyball for a few runs, and pretty quick he is going to be recognizing on his own 'this is the one where I get the ball and bring it back, so I need to jump the hurdles THIS way' and 'this is the one where there is no ball to fetch, so I need to jump the hurdles the OTHER way'. Pretty soon he'd be matching his style to the sport he was participating in at that specific time without missing a beat, and fluidly transitioning between them.

 

Cruel? No way. Miserable? My dog wags the tail, I don't think that is misery. Not all dogs like it though.

 

It's funny that you mention cross-training sometimes coming back to bite you in the butt. I experienced this for the first time during my agility practice last week. I was doing a ketschker and Nevy promptly dove between my legs into her "peek-a-boo" position. She looked so pleased with herself too! Guess I'll have to lay off the trick/freestyle training for a little bit...