There use to be 2 different varieties of Australian Shepherds Standard and Mini ( I believe "Toy" was used to describe the smallest of the minis, but was not recognized) However, the Minis have since been recognized as their own separate breed by the AKC and are now known as the Miniature American Shepherd.

Aussies: Australian Shepherd Information | American Kennel Club

American Shepherds: Miniature American Shepherd Information | American Kennel Club

If his Registration papers (Does he have Registration papers?) say Australian Shepherd then he would just be a Small Australian Shepherd

 

Thanks for the info, I knew people considered mini's a different breed but I didn't know they have been recognized as a different breed.

Ill have to look and see what his registration papers say. Though for some reason I think my mom decided not to get them (it wasn't a good kennel as we found out after so I don't think they gave it to us anyways). If I remember correctly they offered it to us, but because we weren't going to show him or anything we didn't get it.

 

If he is from a "less than stellar breeder" chances are he will still be considered a small Aussie, as most "Average Joe/BYBs" still do not recognize the differences within the 2 breeds..

 

My aussie is a standard that came from good confirmation breeding and he is 45 lbs. I think it depends. My breeder said that a lot of people are now use to seeing these huge aussies and that that is not normal.

 

^^ True, I personally, was going based off of the fact that most of the Working Aussies I grew up around (Spent time on my Cousin's Ranch every summer and there was at least a 1/2 dozen or so at any given time) were usually around 50-55 lbs so 40 to me would be considered on the smaller side.... But then (at least in my understanding) they really don't take weight into consideration as much as they do height anymore... As long as, everything is in proportion and they meet the minimum and do not exceed the maximum height requirements they are allowed to compete under whatever "said breed" they are registered under (provided they pass all other health and behavioral requirements etc. of course)...

 

We found out after we got Sawyer that the kennel we went to got some of their dogs from puppy mills And at the time I wasn't thinking about it, the offer a lot of different breeds, a few they breed themselves, others they get from other places. But you never get to see the parents or siblings if they even have them. They go down and get the dog you want to look at and bring them up and that was it. Because of that I cant nesicaraly say that he was breed by a actual "breeder" or not.
I know we do have some papers on him from the place. But ill have to ask my mom were they are. It might say it one of them.

Do working types tend to be a bit more on the larger side of the scale?

 

We found out after we got Sawyer that the kennel we went to got some of their dogs from puppy mills And at the time I wasn't thinking about it, the offer a lot of different breeds, a few they breed themselves, others they get from other places. But you never get to see the parents or siblings if they even have them. They go down and get the dog you want to look at and bring them up and that was it. Because of that I cant nesicaraly say that he was breed by a actual "breeder" or not.
I know we do have some papers on him from the place. But ill have to ask my mom were they are. It might say it one of them.

Do working types tend to be a bit more on the larger side of the scale?

Personally, I really do not know if it is the norm overall or not (Hopefully, someone with knowledge of "Today's" working vs bench lines will be able to answer that.), I only know it was the "norm" for the Aussies I was exposed to 20+ yrs ago and those Aussies were ALL from various working lines, I also do not know if said working lines were AKC registered or not only that the Ranchers/farmers that bred them were VERY particular about where and with whom their dogs were place.....

 

There is a toy aussie - it's bred with a pomeranian to bring the size down.

Toy Australian Shepherds

 

There is a toy aussie - it's bred with a pomeranian to bring the size down.

Toy Australian Shepherds

I remember being confused as heck when a woman said her Aussie was half mini and half toy. I thought they made it up...

 

There's some breeders that have gone with the AKC's Miniature American Shepherd to keep the AKC name (I have so many issues with the AKC), and some that either don't agree with the AKC or don't want to jump through the hoops to switch and have stayed on as Mini Aussies. As of right now, they're the same breed with a different name. The studbook closes in December (Mini American moves from FSS to herding in July 2015), but right now and any time before that you could go through the parent club and registerer your Mini American, Mini Aussie, Toy Aussie or Standard Aussie as a MAS, then get acceptance to the AKC. People claiming they're separate breeds at this point are wrong. They just have a different name. Once the gene pool starts to close on the MAS they will become more markedly different, but not ATM. They're all over right now with different types and looks.
It's probably the hottest topic in the MAS and Mini Aussie community. If you ever want to get people riled up, go on a Mini or MAS FB and ask the difference.

From what I understand, the sizes are classified by hight, not weight:
Toy - under 14"
Mini - 14-18"
Standard - over 18"

You will find that some MAS, Minis and toys are crossbred to achieve the smaller size, but this isn't true for all. Most minis are created by simply breeding down, and even a few toys are made this way, although it is less common. There's also a difference in look between breeders breeding for pet, show, sport or work. Pet and show tend to be bulkier, thicker coat, and have a broader head with a shorter muzzle. Sport is more light and finer boned with less coat. Working is a mix of the two, leaning more towards a sturdy yet agile dog with much less coat. Pike is primarily working bred but there is some sport mixed in.

 

There's some breeders that have gone with the AKC's Miniature American Shepherd to keep the AKC name (I have so many issues with the AKC), and some that either don't agree with the AKC or don't want to jump through the hoops to switch and have stayed on as Mini Aussies. As of right now, they're the same breed with a different name. The studbook closes in December (Mini American moves from FSS to herding in July 2015), but right now and any time before that you could go through the parent club and registerer your Mini American, Mini Aussie, Toy Aussie or Standard Aussie as a MAS, then get acceptance to the AKC. People claiming they're separate breeds at this point are wrong. They just have a different name. Once the gene pool starts to close on the MAS they will become more markedly different, but not ATM. They're all over right now with different types and looks.
It's probably the hottest topic in the MAS and Mini Aussie community. If you ever want to get people riled up, go on a Mini or MAS FB and ask the difference.

From what I understand, the sizes are classified by hight, not weight:
Toy - under 14"
Mini - 14-18"
Standard - over 18"

You will find that some MAS, Minis and toys are crossbred to achieve the smaller size, but this isn't true for all. Most minis are created by simply breeding down, and even a few toys are made this way, although it is less common. There's also a difference in look between breeders breeding for pet, show, sport or work. Pet and show tend to be bulkier, thicker coat, and have a broader head with a shorter muzzle. Sport is more light and finer boned with less coat. Working is a mix of the two, leaning more towards a sturdy yet agile dog with much less coat. Pike is primarily working bred but there is some sport mixed in.

See, I was under the impression (Based on Several Threads posted to other forums) that the complete split was already made.... Oops sorry.......

 

The whole thing is pretty confusing and political. I was really close to getting one prior to adopting Hank (whcih admittedly was kind of spur of the moment). and I think it's really likely I'll get one next (or a sheltie or pyrshep... depends on breedings and what I want at the time)

The history of mini aussies is confusing and pretty controversial. Some people insist they're 100% aussies but the foundaiton stock of the minis is very small mostly merle dogs owned by Sandy Travis- Cordova's Spike being a good example. Some minis are 100% aussies, in fact I recently saw a mini litter where the lines were all Slash V, hanging Tree, etc- which are hard core working aussies. These 'minis' are in the 30 lb range, not tiny dogs. Honestly it's the only working line mini litter I've really seen. MOST minis I see are some combination of 'mini lines' (like the Travis dogs who were more companion type oriented), maybe some working lines, and show aussie lines. The breeders I've looked at are like that. Seems like a lot started with smaller type dogs and then bred them up with 'real' aussies to fix type a bit better. I haven't seen any indication that people are sneaking in pom or pap like I always hear... The foundation stock actually really was tiny little companion type dogs. Minis have been around about as long as aussies.

But there's the AKC aussie breed club, ASCA breed club- both for regular aussies. ASCA does not allow minis or toys. AKC won't accept a size variety and neither aussie breed club recognizes the smaller sizes. AKC will not accept a breed with a name the same as an existing breed. AKC also got into a lot of trouble when they recognized the aussie and let in a bunch of minis as aussies. Especially in sports this was a problem with people registering known minis as aussies and competing in lower height classes. I forget the dog's name but there was a big controversy about this one mini in agility a few years back.

For minis there's the AKC club who is closing the studbooks and switching their breed name to Mini American shepherds. These dogs will become a separate breed but as of now you can breed to an aussie and register the pups (till december). There's another mini club that promotes the breed as mini australian shepherds and they want to retain the ability to breed with aussies because they view their dogs as a size variety of aussies and not another breed.

Toys have their own breed club. But a lot of people cross the toys and minis.

SO basically it's all confusing and there's no real split as of now. You can even find AKC aussies that are minis by pedigree or part mini lines, etc. So yeah... it's a mess.

In general the minis I find to be roughly Hank sized (so upper teens in weight/15ish inches) to 35 lbs. Regular aussies can be in the 30 lb range as well but are often 40-60. Most I know are show lines and 50-55 lbs. The working lines are smaller. The toys are lower teens in weight. Not much bigger than Mia and Summer. My friend's toy aussie is 13 lbs and her sister is a big toy at 15 lbs.

It's all confusing. There is height overlap between regular aussies and minis and minis and toys. Toys go up to 14", minis start at 14", and minis go up to 18" and standards start at 18".

 

My old trainer (who sadly passed) was an ASCA person and judge who had bred, worked, and shown aussies a long time. She was a big source of my information when I was utterly confused.

Anyways, here's some of the dogs that pop up behind the mini lines.

http://www.fairy-floss-aussies.de/i...es.de/images/content/sandy_travis/squeek_boob_puppy_puppy_trampus___1977-78.jpg
Cordova Spike: http://content.breederoo.com/users/aussiepocket/images/content/cordovasspike1205x155qd4.jpg
http://www.australian-shepherd-lovers.com/image-files/cordova_spike.jpg