[CrunchyDogMom]

Just throwing this out there, but I used to have a female that was prone to UTIs and found that adding a tiny bit of apple cider vinegar to her fresh (not kibble) food stopped the UTIs in their tracks. Alternatively, you can add it into their drinking water, instead. I think this works for some dogs because their urine is too alkaline, typically from a diet too high in plant ingredients (her diet at that point was still too high-carb), and the ACV helps acidify the urine so the bad bacteria causing the infection can't survive.

 

[Laco]

Just throwing this out there, but I used to have a female that was prone to UTIs and found that adding a tiny bit of apple cider vinegar to her fresh (not kibble) food stopped the UTIs in their tracks. Alternatively, you can add it into their drinking water, instead. I think this works for some dogs because their urine is too alkaline, typically from a diet too high in plant ingredients (her diet at that point was still too high-carb), and the ACV helps acidify the urine so the bad bacteria causing the infection can't survive.

Sounds like something worth trying. The very worst it could do is cause no harm, even if it didn't in this case resolve the issue.

 

[MaxMiller]

We had a very similar situation, only he was a little less than a year old. His behavior was almost the same - he asks to go outside, plays, sometimes does his business, but then a few minutes later at home he suddenly starts marking again. Like you, we first thought about UTI, consulted a veterinarian, took tests - everything turned out to be normal. After that, we came to the conclusion that the problem was behavioral. A consultation with a dog trainer really helped us. It turned out that our dog started marking territory because he felt too responsible for the house - as if it was his "post". We were advised to temporarily limit access to the areas where he marked (the sofa, kitchen, etc.), use pheromone diffusers and increase control when going outside - not just letting him out, but accompanying him, praising him specifically for "pee", and not for playing.

 

[Rob89]

We had a very similar situation, only he was a little less than a year old. His behavior was almost the same - he asks to go outside, plays, sometimes does his business, but then a few minutes later at home he suddenly starts marking again. Like you, we first thought about UTI, consulted a veterinarian, took tests - everything turned out to be normal. After that, we came to the conclusion that the problem was behavioral. A consultation with a dog trainer really helped us. It turned out that our dog started marking territory because he felt too responsible for the house - as if it was his "post". We were advised to temporarily limit access to the areas where he marked (the sofa, kitchen, etc.), use pheromone diffusers and increase control when going outside - not just letting him out, but accompanying him, praising him specifically for "writing", and not for playing.

Thank you, this all sounds like good advice

 

[Rob89]

Hi everyone - I have an update on this:

Unfortunately the weeing indoors has continued. It still weeing and scent marking (not leaking out, actually cocking his leg), at no particular time or place.

Today we collected a urine sample for his 1st appointment at his new vet. The sample was tested - all clear.

He was aggressive towards the Vet to the point of the vet not being able to touch him. After explaining the indoor weeing issue (and mentioning another lesser issue - stealing our possessions and resources guarding them with aggression) the new has said the following:

• all issues (including weeing indoors) point to behaviour issues. He is behaving the way he is because he thinks he's 'the boss'.
• he has told us he needs to see a dog behaviourist / trainer as he could get worse and cause someone injury.
• he is marked as 'aggressive' at the vets for their safety and will only be seen if necessary (or behaviourist refers him)

I must stress that he only shows these signs of aggression at the vets (and occasionally when hes resource guarding) and it only started after a particular appointment at his previous vet.

Does anyone have any experience of this or similar? Thanks

 

[JoanneF]

He is behaving the way he is because he thinks he's 'the boss

I'm afraid your vet is a bit outdated. That theory was thoroughly debunked and disproven years ago. But, in fairness, you consult a vet for medical issues, not behavioural ones, so you don't need him to be an expert in that any more than you would expect a plumber to be able to fix your car. As long as you don't pay attention, there's no harm done.

I agree though that it may well be behavioural BUT I suspect a lot of this may be rooted in anxiety.

Behaviour at the vets - a frightened dog will behave aggressively, to frighten or drive off what they see as a threat. Its a pity your vet doesn't know that. Did you consider the muzzle, suggested earlier? If not, please do. It won't fix his behaviour, but it will keep everyone safer. To address this behaviour, I'd try to find a sympathetic vet who understands this is based in fear, not thinks your dog is trying to be boss, and do lots of non-appointment visits for ear rubs and treats (so his ears are touched), giving a paw for treats (so his feet are touched), getting pets for treats (so his body is touched) etc.

Resource guarding - again, an unconfident animal will guard because he fears it's going to be taken away. To be fair, guarding what you have is a deep rooted survival instinct, it could be the difference between life and death, but in a dog lacking confidence it may be more pronounced.

The marking could also be based in a lack of confidence (although the fact it stopped when he was on antibiotics makes that either less likely or coincidence). But, for some dogs, marking their 'territory' is their way of telling others it's theirs, not out of dominance but out of a need to stake a claim in case someone else comes along, if that makes sense. Have any of the other approaches, like blocking access, helped at all? It may even be habit now.

Whether you need a behaviourist - it wouldn't do any harm, and your insurance may cover it. But please, please find someone who is more up to date than your vet. If you find someone, and would like us to check their web page for red flags, please shout out. Or, if you say roughly where you live, we might know someone in your area.

 

[Madra Anamchara]

I agree with everything that JoanneF says above. Your dog sounds not aggressive to me, but frightened. He is not trying to "be the boss".

If you do get help from a trainer, please be sure that it is someone who understands this. Do not use any aversive corrections with him like a choke collar, electronic collar, or harsh words or punishments, as that will only make things a lot worse. I have a dog who tried to bite one vet tech, and now I put a muzzle on him when we go to the vet. All the people are more relaxed this way and while my dog is not necessarily more relaxed at least the people are not making him more frightened because of their own fear of getting bitten.

 

[Rob89]

Thank you both JoanneF and Madra. My feeling is that he's frightened of the Vet too. His behaviour at the vet seemed to change after a particular appointment at his previous practice where he was taken into the back room for a couple of hours and ever since then he has shown reluctance to enter and will be aggressive towards vets.

With regards to weeing indoors, I have no idea. He wees indoors and outdoors. He does it most days now.

The resource guarding seems to me to be triggered by boredom. He often does it more regularly if we haven't been anywhere of interest for a while or we're not paying attention to him for a period. We can usually coax him away with a distraction (toy/treat).

We have been looking at trainers / behaviourists today and we're struggling to make an informed decision. I asked the vet if he could refer us to someone and he said he couldn't as it would show bias towards a separate business. Just to reassure you Madra we wouldn't use anyone that would use any of the punishments that you have mentioned.

Admittedly I have shouted once or twice at the worst, most frustrating occasions at home, most recently when he weed in the middle of the sofa (knowing it doesn't work!) and regretted it afterwards.

Despite all of this he is mostly a well behaved dog who sleeps well on the whole, walks well and interacts in a friendly way with me, my family, strangers and other dogs - although he wants to play all the time! Lol

 

[Rob89]

I forgot to say - we are in the WS10 area of the West Midlands. Behaviourists seem to want to do a video call and then sessions at my home, which is difficult for me to do as im usually at work weekday daytimes and I'm not sure what benefit a video call with someone will do. I'm going to go with a behaviourist or trainer but it's just deciding which one.

 

[JoanneF]

I asked the vet if he could refer us to someone and he said he couldn't as it would show bias towards a separate business

Sorry, but that is nonsense. Many vets will work with behaviourists.

However in this case, maybe not a bad thing.

we are in the WS10 area of the West Midlands

My geography isn't great but I really, really recommend Sarah Shelton Porter at Through the Dog's Eyes.

You really couldn't get much better. Tell her I suggested her, it won't get you a discount but hopefully she will be pleased.

https://throughthedogseyes.com/

 

[JoanneF]

I may be way off base with this but didn't want to not mention it, just in case.

triggered by boredom. He often does it more regularly if we haven't been anywhere of interest for a while or we're not paying attention to him for a period

Does he have an 'off' switch, can he settle calmly if asked to?

 

[Rob89]

Thanks for the recommendation - Burntwood is a bit far for me but I may need to weigh up my options first.

 

[Rob89]

I may be way off base with this but didn't want to not mention it, just in case.


Does he have an 'off' switch, can he settle calmly if asked to?

Hi Joanne,

I missed this message yesterday. To be honest he doesn't really have an 'off switch' to rest when we twll him. He will choose to rest but he didn't take to 'place' when we tried to teach it him. He will 'wait' for a treat. He sleeps well in his crate 99% of the time.

 

[JoanneF]

It might help a bit; if he resource guards when he is bored, learning to self settle might give him another choice.

Kikopup has a couple of good videos on training it -