!!!!!!!!!!


Welcome! I love your posts on DF. Wally is adorable!

the more training goobs here the better IMO. I figure the regulars are sick of me at this point

Are you backchaining to retrieve the dumbell? And where did you find a dumbell for a toy dog? I just use pens

 

Wow, thanks - didn't know I had any fans, so to speak

I backchained with him. At this point he knows what the whole behavior is - but when I started with this, I did it via backchaining and +R marker training (he's very marker savvy now - both reward/no-reward). I also had to build drive/interest in him getting the object in his mouth. I wanted that to be an indicator of great things so he always wanted to get the thing in his mouth. He's not a "natural" retriever and showed no interest at first. But once he wanted the object so bad he'd stand on his back paws to try to get it and bark at it/me - then the actual retrieve was easy as he had to go to it to get it in his mouth and the bring it back so he could collect his reward.

The bigger challenge was explaining to him that what was just a freelance way to have fun is now "work", or at least a game played with more control, discipline, and focus. Kinda like going from football to chess. That and the whole "presenting" part. He just wanted to drop it. Had to train the "Give" part into him at the end.

That and I'm trying to get him to retrieve also by following directions from me - like on those retriever trials and such where the handler sometimes casts the dog in a different direction if he's too far off-line. That's where the directions training is. I've retaught "Wait" for this purpose.

As far as dumbbells - I don't remember the site 100% (sorry), but I THINK this is where I got mine. I know it looks like mine and is white and floats like these are described as doing.

Plastic Retrieving Dumbells - Cherrybrook

I know I paid under $5 for it (I'm also a cheap amateur trainer LOL)

 

Welcome!!! I hope you like it here!
And Wally is very cute!

 

Hey KB! Glad to see you & Wally again! Funny you mention the "shape" training, because, I never really knew that was what I was teaching until I read about it later...I was like "HEY!! That's what I do too!"! I just taught something, got creative &, added to it, &, lo-& behold...(without knowing the name of it), I was "shape" training too!
Keep "sniffing around"..they have this interesting tennis ball game here(trying to figure it out myself), & some neat icons too!

 

Thanks for the link. Iam actually looking for a dumbell for my larger dog now that the little ones are already trained, but thats easy peasy to find.

So like a blind retrieve then correct? If you manage to train the directionals I'd love to hear how it was done. I've never encountered any articles on it (tho I admit I haven't looked )

Is he proofed on different objects? Or do you use the dumbell only?

 

So like a blind retrieve then correct? If you manage to train the directionals I'd love to hear how it was done. I've never encountered any articles on it (tho I admit I haven't looked )

Correct.

He's starting to pick it up. At first I did nothing fancy. I just put out two objects that are identical and point to one. When he goes to it, C/T.

After a while, I'll attach the directional name (left, right, whatever). What I want him to do is not so much think in terms of object but in body movements just like he does to learn what a sit is or a drop is or when he stands up on two paws.

I'll put the hand signal with name as well so he can have both to go by.

We worked on this off and on - but today I put a different twist to it.

Forgive the bad diagram:

--------------------B--------------------
|                                       |
|                                       |
|                                       |
R                   W                   L
|                                       |
|                                       |
--------------------KB-------------------


Key:
B = Back object
R = Right object
L = Left object
KB = Where I stand
W = Wally's "home" position - this is where he comes front to get 
his reward and wait for the next direction.


*Front = formal front position with the sit and eye contact.

To set it up, I got three objects that are the same (I used those cork square things you put hot pans on, like I said, I'm a cheap trainer LOL) and put bread on them (his to die for food).

With him in his "home" position, I waited for eye contact, then did the hand signal and gave the direction name. If he goes to the right object, I click just before he eats the bread. Then he gets the reward and then has to come front again. I c/t him for that and then reset the bread on the object he went to.

He did VERY well with this and I'm going to keep doing it this way to see if he picks it up faster this way. He looks like he had a lot of fun with it and was very intent on me and waiting for the directions. I could see those eyes get bigger and that tail start to twitch (he always wags his tail, like he's winding it up, before he barks, no idea why...)

We did this for about a slice of bread (yeah, I measure my sessions in fractions of slices of bread. How sad. I know.) probably about 40 or so clicks (probably 15 or so reps - considering the clicks for front and such).


I did some searching and here's a couple articles (I bookmarked these myself)

Teaching left and right
Teaching Gee/Haw Commands 101 | Sleddoggin.com

Is he proofed on different objects? Or do you use the dumbell only?

Right now, we've done mostly with the dumbbell but I think he could do it with any object he can see. I do use the dumbbell ONLY for working with retrieving so he doesn't even get the idea it's anything but an article for this "work".

I think with other objects, it will go back to the part where I had to explain it's not just a freelance game, but as far as the actual retrieving, he'll go get just about anything he can pick up. In fact, I used one of those duster thingies and he picked it up (had to figure out how LOL) and brought it back like it was the dumbbell, complete with the front (ish) position and presenting it to me

 

He's starting to pick it up. At first I did nothing fancy. I just put out two objects that are identical and point to one. When he goes to it, C/T.

Gotcha, can do that already...

After a while, I'll attach the directional name (left, right, whatever). What I want him to do is not so much think in terms of object but in body movements just like he does to learn what a sit is or a drop is or when he stands up on two paws.

Do you give the cue to retrieve (or a release from the front to retrieve) and then cue a direction? Or is the direction a cue for the whole behavior?

To set it up, I got three objects that are the same (I used those cork square things you put hot pans on, like I said, I'm a cheap trainer LOL) and put bread on them (his to die for food).

:rofl: @ the cheapness comment

Iam assuming only on the cork thingamagig you are going to cue him to go to? Not on them all? Iam assuming this would need to be faded fast so the food doesn't become part of the cue..

He did VERY well with this and I'm going to keep doing it this way to see if he picks it up faster this way. He looks like he had a lot of fun with it and was very intent on me and waiting for the directions. I could see those eyes get bigger and that tail start to twitch (he always wags his tail, like he's winding it up, before he barks, no idea why...)

well of course he had fun with it...its clicker training! LOL...no seriously glad its working out well for you.

Teaching left and right
Teaching Gee/Haw Commands 101 | Sleddoggin.com

thank you I'll read them

I think with other objects, it will go back to the part where I had to explain it's not just a freelance game, but as far as the actual retrieving, he'll go get just about anything he can pick up. In fact, I used one of those duster thingies and he picked it up (had to figure out how LOL) and brought it back like it was the dumbbell, complete with the front (ish) position and presenting it to me

Cool, with mine there is still occasional hesitation with novel objects that are metal, but thats to be expected.

Sorry for all the questions

 

Do you give the cue to retrieve (or a release from the front to retrieve) and then cue a direction? Or is the direction a cue for the whole behavior?

Direction is the cue. It acts as a release from the current position and a vector, so to speak, to where he is to go next and then once he's there I do cue "front" (I don't mind this because in real practice, I might not want him to come front, but go in another direction, hold is position while I judge the line, etc), but not all the time (to prevent anticipation errors).

:rofl: @ the cheapness comment

Iam assuming only on the cork thingamagig you are going to cue him to go to? Not on them all? Iam assuming this would need to be faded fast so the food doesn't become part of the cue..

Sometimes I feel like I could write an e-book called "Training Your Dog On The Cheap: How to Scavenge, Pillage, and Makeshift Your Way to a Well-Educated Dog"

I mean instead of proper weave poles, I bought some plastic blue cones, I found a half a table or something that has an opening so he can use it like a tunnel. I makeshift a jump from (human weight) dumbbells stacked on books and something put across it.

Anyway:

Yep, he's to go ONLY and DIRECTLY to the indicated object. Any incorrect movement gets a no-reward marker and he has to start over. That's no big deal, distance-wise, now, but when it's time to ramp up the challenge and these things get 20 feet apart...

As far as fading - I don't worry so much about that. I know a lot of trainers are adamant about fading and doing it pronto, but I don't know if the food will become the cue. The food is on all of them for all the objects, so I don't know if he'll figure out that the food is part of the direction. I'm thinking the direction cue is my hand signal and verbal cue.

I'm thinking it's more the other way, the direction led him to the food so he's going to be more driven to follow the direction because the goal is that way, and the goal always leads to Good Things.

Eventually, the object will be the dumbbell itself (or whatever), and then eventually the cork squares will go poof, and then walking paths in the house solely on my directions to get to an object (or food), then outside, etc, but as far as quickly, I'll let Wally (via his performance) tell me if I need to fade faster or slower or even if we have to backtrack

 

hi! welcome aboard

 

just finished the first link (been doing 100 things at once) and I totally get it now. Thanks for letting me pick your brain. I'll have to try som' of this.

 

No problem. Glad I could at least give some help.

 

Hi kblover! Nice to see you over here. I hope more of the good guys from over there make it. I Miss Friday'sMom. LOL