[Elana55]

There are those for and against crates and what one person considers abuse is not to another. Personally I believe that the crate is a tool and the use of that tool requires you to READ THE DOG. If you can add common sense, then you are doing a good job.

I have used a crate for about 25 years now and I will never go back. Crate keeps the dog safe when I am not there (there is no such thing as a dog proof room.. most rooms are framed, have outlets and wall board, moldings and flooring.. all of which can become chew toys to the dog's detriment).

Of course I go to work. I have to .. and so do most people.. and my dog cannot come with me (silly employers).

I have never had a dog psychologically damged by crating. I have had more problems with using pennies in a can (dog afraid of someone dropping their keys as a result) to redirect a dog than by using a crate.

More laws is not what we need. Laws typically do not help those they were intended to help and simply make for richer lawyers and greater court loads. You cannot make it a law that people have common sense.

 

[jasminesmom]

My first furbaby, Jasmine, was never crated and I never fully understood the purpose but recently when I was considering adopting another, I researched crate training. I decided that since my 87 yo mother in law lived with me, this would be my best alternative to help keep 'puppy' and mother il safe.
Stella (schnorkie) loves her crate-it is her safe haven. The door is always opened-goes there during the day to nap, goes there when I'm preparing dinner and after her last trip outside she willingly goes to 'bed'. And only then do I close the door for fear my MIL stumbling over her during the night. I tried getting Stella to sleep with us but in the morning she was so tired, I went back to the crate.

Glad I did.

Cheryl and Angel Jasmine
Jasmine was loved
Jasmine was given ProIn
Jasmine is gone

 

[Bones]

More laws is not what we need. Laws typically do not help those they were intended to help and simply make for richer lawyers and greater court loads. You cannot make it a law that people have common sense.

So true!

 

[Criosphynx]

Interestingly enough. My SA dog that would eat through baby gates and wall, dig out carpet and scream does fantastic in the crate. IMO is all about how much conditioning you do for the crate. All my dogs eat EVERY meal in them. I also do crate games and conditioned them to enjoy it, not just toss them in it.

I do think, my dogs that are crated 4 days a week for a few hours are much happier than the neighbors dogs that live free roam outside in their yard, many of them barking because they are frightened or bored..

I certainly know mine are safer.

 

[TonkaTruckJK]

IMO the use of crates IS a bad tool and should be avoided for alternative training methods that don't leave the psychological and physical scars that a crate can. ANYONE that leaves a dog crated for more than 3 hours a day IS abusing that tool to the dogs detriment.

Dog Shrink...I'll start with my qualifications: None

With a username like 'Dog Shrink', you're implying that you have some qualifications regarding canine psychology. I'd certainly appreciate you sharing those with the broader group.

If you have qualifications, your input could be helpful for someone handling psychologically fragile dogs, and preventing further abuse. However, I take exception to the accusation that leaving a dog crated for greater than 3 hours, ever, is abuse. I'd invite you to come meet my dogs and point out the psychological damage that I've done to them through crate abuse, because yes, I crate my dogs when I go to work. Why would I do this? Well, besides the fact that I'm a horrible person, I do it for their own protection. I've actually set up a video feed from my webcam that I can acccess anywhere through my iPhone, and watched them throughout the course of the day, even so far as recording every 'motion event' and replaying afterwards. Happy to share with you if you'd like to watch.

My dogs go into their crates on their own when I'm putting my shoes on in the morning, because they know that if they don't I'll beat them within an inch of their lives. (this is sarcasm, folks).

So please, share your credentials, help us have some context behind your opinion, and help me understand the psychological damage I'm doing to my dogs, who are both crated for at least 6, sometimes 8 hours per day while I'm at work.

Thanks!

Dan

 

[wvasko]

Interestingly enough. My SA dog that would eat through baby gates and wall, dig out carpet and scream does fantastic in the crate. IMO is all about how much conditioning you do for the crate. All my dogs eat EVERY meal in them. I also do crate games and conditioned them to enjoy it, not just toss them in it.

I do think, my dogs that are crated 4 days a week for a few hours are much happier than the neighbors dogs that live free roam outside in their yard, many of them barking because they are frightened or bored..

I certainly know mine are safer.

Crio
When a pyramid was built they had to build the base 1st, the results you get with your 4 dogs in crate are because of the base crate work that you built with your dogs. Isn't it amazing that hard work gets great results.

 

[Criosphynx]

Crio
When a pyramid was built they had to build the base 1st, the results you get with your 4 dogs in crate are because of the base crate work that you built with your dogs. Isn't it amazing that hard work gets great results.

Thank you. I do agree, stuffing a screaming puppy into a crate over and over, without any conditioning, and just hoping it will cry itself out, is misuse...tho I do understand that it is generally not intentional misuse.

If anything this forum has shown, that new dog owners are under the impression that "crate training" = stuff dog in crate and let it cry until the dog "gets over it".

I think greater education as to what is actually involved is needed.

FWIW my dogs are Crated 6 hours 3(maybe 4) a days while I work. I crate them for their own safety. They go in willingly, and will return to them to sleep on their own.

 

[pawzaddict]

oh WHERE do I BEGIN?

still provides the dog room to move and blow off anxiety/stress/steam

Sure, while eating things that could be dangerous to him/her.

ANY good trainer/behaviorest will tell you that no dog should be crated for more than 3 hours TOPS with out being let out of the crate for a break

LOL funny I have spoken with many great trainers with tons of experience who never say this and encourage crate training.

I know this will stir a fury but IMO crating is for people who don't have the patients, time, desire or are just too damn lazy to properly house train a dog

I am not too DAMN lazy to properly house train my dogs. I do not feel it is proper for an owner to let a dog run loose in the house with no supervision if said dog has a tendency to eat things due to boredom...:eyeroll:

not all crate users are abusers.

Well said

ANYONE that leaves a dog crated for more than 3 hours a day IS abusing that tool to the dogs detriment.

Again :eyeroll:

Crate keeps the dog safe when I am not there (there is no such thing as a dog proof room.. most rooms are framed, have outlets and wall board, moldings and flooring.. all of which can become chew toys to the dog's detriment).

Perfectly stated!

Of course I go to work. I have to .. and so do most people.. and my dog cannot come with me

I never use this smiley cuz its silly...but.... :rockon:

More laws is not what we need.

And again :rockon:

I'd invite you to come meet my dogs and point out the psychological damage that I've done to them through crate abuse, because yes, I crate my dogs when I go to work

Amen!

So please, share your credentials, help us have some context behind your opinion

From what I remember he/she is a dog trainer... I could be wrong

 

[TonkaTruckJK]

From what I remember he/she is a dog trainer... I could be wrong

Anybody ever meet someone who 'trains' dogs, but does more harm than good? Anybody call Barkbusters lately?

I'm still skeptical. Come meet my dogs, show me what's wrong with them. Please.

 

[ScentHound]

I only crate Missy, and that is because she developed a severe case of separation anxiety while in shelters. Volunteers and Coonhound pups don't mix well and the hounds are pampered from the start. She actually uses it as her safe place. When she is scared she either lays next to me, or in her crate. I raised Cleo from about 4 weeks so no anxiety issues ever developed. Harley is a typical English bull. He hops up on the couch and sleeps until I get home. Betty usually sleeps next to Harley, unless I forget to put away dishes or food.

 

[Dog Shrink]

why is it that EVERY time a comment is made about the negative ramifications of abusing crates those who use them almost properly chime in with "well not my dog...". And "well my dog has been conditioned". You FEW people are likely those that have done it right. I expected better out of a senior member (guess I shouldn't have tho as people usually disappoint). Did I ever say Leave a dog to run loose in a house? NO. I said that you can have the same benefits of a crate by confining a dog in a dog safe room (singular) and if some one can't dog safe a room, then use an xpen. NEVER EVER did I say let a untrained dog roam loose in a home. You need to read more completely when responding to some one's post rather than act on partial, or distorted statements that suit your need. By only using parts that behoove your arguement doesn't make much of an educated arguement.

Crios... you said this site was friendlier... well as long as you don't show a different opintion from popular concensus I guess... Tonka... I am an animal behavior specialist NOT a trainer. Just about anyone can train a dog, what I do is completely different. I have worked almost 17 years in this field, I have written articles for our local paper about all things dog, I have studied wolves, and I don't post my resume on dog forums for people to critique, sorry. There are SEVERAL trainers out there that do much more harm than good, Pattenson for example, or Milan, I however an not them.

 

[pawzaddict]

NEVER EVER did I say let a untrained dog roam loose in a home. You need to read more completely when responding to some one's post rather than act on partial, or distorted statements that suit your need. By only using parts that behoove your arguement doesn't make much of an educated arguement.

I never recall you saying use an x-pen and frankly did not feel the need to continue reading your babble but either way you said that those who use crates are lazy, you did not say "some people use crates b/c they are too lazy" I mean for petes sake its way better than having them tethered to a tree outside. An x-pen will not keep my dogs from getting out and destroying the house and putting themselves in harms way. You need to get over yourself, you make a comment like you are lazy if you use a crate and this is what you are going to get. Just b/c you are a behaviorist does not mean you have the greatest of credentials. Just anybody can get a degree pretty much, I have seen it. You have written articles but have you written a book? Nooooooooo

There are SEVERAL trainers out there that do much more harm than good, Pattenson for example, or Milan, I however an not them.

I think we will have to agree to disagree as your advice I have seen on this forum from time to time has been ridiculous.