I totally agree. My dog loves to sleep in hers and if it is not around, she looks for a bed to crawl under.

It has been especially helpful with getting her to ride in the car. At first, when I just put her in the back, she drooled and cried, then I put her kennel in the back seat for her to ride in, and it helped a lot. She obviously feels safe in it.

 

I completely agree. My puppy would occasionally retreat to his crate to sleep or be away from noise. Here is a great tip my obedience trainer taught me: Give your dog/puppy interactive toys and treats to work on in their crate. I would put his food in a Kong and let him eat it inside his crate and it he was always excited to go in.
I also believe that crate training can be overused and it is abusive to keep the dog in the crate for too long during the day. A couple hrs at a time is best, they need to be let out and played with VERY frequently : )

 

One thing not mentioned are emergencies/Vet care etc. With the amount of weather problems, floods, tornadoes and on and on. Many Vets cages are crate type design so it's much easier on dogs to be put in a familiar Vet's environment if sick or injured.

As far as the abuse side the idiots that would abuse are in all probability abusing other ways and should if possible not allowed near any animals but that's another story.

 

ditto this... ^^^

 

The only way it's cruel is if you don't keep it clean. If the dog is not let out to go to the bathroom or is forced to stay in his own waste, that's cruel. If you leave a dog in a crate for extended time periods, that's cruel.

Crate TRAINING and proper crate use are a good thing. If the dog is properly house trained and crate trained, there's nothing cruel about it.

 

I have always been the voice of reason against crates. It is NOT natural to dogs to be crated because they ARE social animals and seperating a social animal ina small crate is mentally harmful to them. I have seem WAY too many behavioral problems that stem from OVER crating, as most people aren't reasonable to use a crate the way they were intended and insted use it as a "cure all" and just stuff the dog in there rather than train them. Dogs do live in dens but have as much access to the den as their alpha allows, and is actually part of the way the alpha maintains control, so to play on that primitive instinct it is better to confinement train your pup with baby gates in a dog safe room rather than crate train it. Even an xpen is better than crating young pups. A dog that is properly confinement trained is almost certain to be potty trained and able to stay out in the house unsupervised by 6-7 months old reliably AND can be boarded, kenneled or crated when ever needed because they are use to and confident with being in a confined situation.

Crates are banned in the Netherlands and are facing the same in the UK (and most of Europe and Australia) where they are already frowned upon smply because they are so easily abused.

The psychological damage that can happen because of improper crate training is not worth the risk IMO. If crating is so natural to dogs then why do most have to be "conditioned" to a crate? Don't confuse denning with crating... they are VERY different. Dogs den in large groups (the complete pack) in one cave, not in individual nooks where they barely have enough room to stand, turn, and lay down.

 

A friend of mine rescued a dog that was locked up in a small spare bedroom. He had been kept there for well over a year and was rarely, if ever, taken outside. The room was completely covered with dog waste, as was the dog.

My point is that confinment can also be abusive to animals. Really it comes down to people being neglectful or abusive! Crates are not inharently bad!

 

Yes ANY confinement can be cruel but not all meausres of confining a dog can produce the averse physical and mental side effects that crating can. Being confined in a room (albeit a crap covered one) still provides the dog room to move and blow off anxiety/stress/steam, and still provides the space to exercise for a younger dog's proper physical development. You certainlty can't do that in a properly sized crate. I have a crate torture survivor dog. He is a 5 lb toy fox terrier that was kept in a plastic cat kennel for THREE YEARS. Granted he fit "properly" in the thing but it certainly didn't do him any favors. He has/had so much physical and emotional damage done by that it's criminal.

It does all come down to owner responsibility in the end and unfortunately most people who abuse crates/confinement should never own dogs in the first place. I don't think crate training speeds p potty training at all. I mean really who wants to get up 3-4 times in the middle of the night to let adog out to potty. Potty training is all abut choices and providing a dog with the option to MAKE THE RIGHT choice whether it's going on paper or trying (and usually failing) to wait for their human to let them out. IMO I'd much rather have a dog that can eliminate on paper when they need to and make the right choice to use the paper rather than a dog bed, carpet or other area, rather than have a dog in a crate where they are compelled to hold it (even if they aren't physically capabe of it yet and often fail) and wait for a human to let them out to potty or sit in it for god knows how long. ANY good trainer/behaviorest will tell you that no dog should be crated for more than 3 hours TOPS with out being let out of the crate for a break.

I know this will stir a fury but IMO crating is for people who don't have the patients, time, desire or are just too damn lazy to properly house train a dog (and yes house training does include MORE than just not pottying in the house). Doesn't anyone remember how dogs were trained before the advent of the crate?

 

I've NEVER been one for crates(Our dogs, and pets for that matter, have been freefed and free range), BUT I think all dogs should be crate trained and periodically (if they aren't crated) retrained for it. A crate should be a sanctuary. So although my dog goes in a crate NEVER , he still loves it for road trips or unfamiliar places. Plus it makes toilet training so much easier!

 

Crate training is good so long as it is used intelligently and not abused. That is true of any tool, however.

 

I think if someone uses their crate responsible then it should be fine. I do use crates but my dogs have free access to them. Its rare that I close the door, except when I was crate training.

 

Hmm.. I'm kinda confused now. My pup is crate trained or rather house broken now. She spent quite some time in her crate for the first two weeks with us. Though only when she's sleepy we put her in and a max of 2 hours. Now that we can trust her, we let her sleep any where in the house. Most of the time she'll just run to where the sun shines the brightest. She loves sleeping under the sun. Now we don't crate her during the day. But when it comes to night time, we put her in the crate to sleep from 12am to around 6.30am. Is that okay? She's 14 weeks old and we can't trust her unsupervised at night. Is this over-crating?

 

You are doing fine, if it isn't broke don't try to fix it.

 

some of my guys are crated more then 3 hrs (I guess that is some magical number) at a time and I've yet to crush their fragile psyche


I agree with wvasko...if it works for you and you pup don't try to fix it

 

Yes, on the no psyche crushing program. Many dogs much crating and also no problems ever. But and an important "BUT" you just got to take care and use common sense.

 

There are those for and against crates and what one person considers abuse is not to another. Personally I believe that the crate is a tool and the use of that tool requires you to READ THE DOG. If you can add common sense, then you are doing a good job.

I have used a crate for about 25 years now and I will never go back. Crate keeps the dog safe when I am not there (there is no such thing as a dog proof room.. most rooms are framed, have outlets and wall board, moldings and flooring.. all of which can become chew toys to the dog's detriment).

Of course I go to work. I have to .. and so do most people.. and my dog cannot come with me (silly employers).

I have never had a dog psychologically damged by crating. I have had more problems with using pennies in a can (dog afraid of someone dropping their keys as a result) to redirect a dog than by using a crate.

More laws is not what we need. Laws typically do not help those they were intended to help and simply make for richer lawyers and greater court loads. You cannot make it a law that people have common sense.

 

More laws is not what we need. Laws typically do not help those they were intended to help and simply make for richer lawyers and greater court loads. You cannot make it a law that people have common sense.

So true!

 

My first furbaby, Jasmine, was never crated and I never fully understood the purpose but recently when I was considering adopting another, I researched crate training. I decided that since my 87 yo mother in law lived with me, this would be my best alternative to help keep 'puppy' and mother il safe.
Stella (schnorkie) loves her crate-it is her safe haven. The door is always opened-goes there during the day to nap, goes there when I'm preparing dinner and after her last trip outside she willingly goes to 'bed'. And only then do I close the door for fear my MIL stumbling over her during the night. I tried getting Stella to sleep with us but in the morning she was so tired, I went back to the crate.

Glad I did.

Cheryl and Angel Jasmine
Jasmine was loved
Jasmine was given ProIn
Jasmine is gone

 

Interestingly enough. My SA dog that would eat through baby gates and wall, dig out carpet and scream does fantastic in the crate. IMO is all about how much conditioning you do for the crate. All my dogs eat EVERY meal in them. I also do crate games and conditioned them to enjoy it, not just toss them in it.

I do think, my dogs that are crated 4 days a week for a few hours are much happier than the neighbors dogs that live free roam outside in their yard, many of them barking because they are frightened or bored..

I certainly know mine are safer.

 

Crio
When a pyramid was built they had to build the base 1st, the results you get with your 4 dogs in crate are because of the base crate work that you built with your dogs. Isn't it amazing that hard work gets great results.

 

oh WHERE do I BEGIN?

still provides the dog room to move and blow off anxiety/stress/steam

Sure, while eating things that could be dangerous to him/her.

ANY good trainer/behaviorest will tell you that no dog should be crated for more than 3 hours TOPS with out being let out of the crate for a break

LOL funny I have spoken with many great trainers with tons of experience who never say this and encourage crate training.

I know this will stir a fury but IMO crating is for people who don't have the patients, time, desire or are just too damn lazy to properly house train a dog

I am not too DAMN lazy to properly house train my dogs. I do not feel it is proper for an owner to let a dog run loose in the house with no supervision if said dog has a tendency to eat things due to boredom...:eyeroll:

not all crate users are abusers.

Well said

ANYONE that leaves a dog crated for more than 3 hours a day IS abusing that tool to the dogs detriment.

Again :eyeroll:

Crate keeps the dog safe when I am not there (there is no such thing as a dog proof room.. most rooms are framed, have outlets and wall board, moldings and flooring.. all of which can become chew toys to the dog's detriment).

Perfectly stated!

Of course I go to work. I have to .. and so do most people.. and my dog cannot come with me

I never use this smiley cuz its silly...but.... :rockon:

More laws is not what we need.

And again :rockon:

I'd invite you to come meet my dogs and point out the psychological damage that I've done to them through crate abuse, because yes, I crate my dogs when I go to work

Amen!

So please, share your credentials, help us have some context behind your opinion

From what I remember he/she is a dog trainer... I could be wrong

 

From what I remember he/she is a dog trainer... I could be wrong

Anybody ever meet someone who 'trains' dogs, but does more harm than good? Anybody call Barkbusters lately?

I'm still skeptical. Come meet my dogs, show me what's wrong with them. Please.

 

I only crate Missy, and that is because she developed a severe case of separation anxiety while in shelters. Volunteers and Coonhound pups don't mix well and the hounds are pampered from the start. She actually uses it as her safe place. When she is scared she either lays next to me, or in her crate. I raised Cleo from about 4 weeks so no anxiety issues ever developed. Harley is a typical English bull. He hops up on the couch and sleeps until I get home. Betty usually sleeps next to Harley, unless I forget to put away dishes or food.

 

why is it that EVERY time a comment is made about the negative ramifications of abusing crates those who use them almost properly chime in with "well not my dog...". And "well my dog has been conditioned". You FEW people are likely those that have done it right. I expected better out of a senior member (guess I shouldn't have tho as people usually disappoint). Did I ever say Leave a dog to run loose in a house? NO. I said that you can have the same benefits of a crate by confining a dog in a dog safe room (singular) and if some one can't dog safe a room, then use an xpen. NEVER EVER did I say let a untrained dog roam loose in a home. You need to read more completely when responding to some one's post rather than act on partial, or distorted statements that suit your need. By only using parts that behoove your arguement doesn't make much of an educated arguement.

Crios... you said this site was friendlier... well as long as you don't show a different opintion from popular concensus I guess... Tonka... I am an animal behavior specialist NOT a trainer. Just about anyone can train a dog, what I do is completely different. I have worked almost 17 years in this field, I have written articles for our local paper about all things dog, I have studied wolves, and I don't post my resume on dog forums for people to critique, sorry. There are SEVERAL trainers out there that do much more harm than good, Pattenson for example, or Milan, I however an not them.

 

NEVER EVER did I say let a untrained dog roam loose in a home. You need to read more completely when responding to some one's post rather than act on partial, or distorted statements that suit your need. By only using parts that behoove your arguement doesn't make much of an educated arguement.

I never recall you saying use an x-pen and frankly did not feel the need to continue reading your babble but either way you said that those who use crates are lazy, you did not say "some people use crates b/c they are too lazy" I mean for petes sake its way better than having them tethered to a tree outside. An x-pen will not keep my dogs from getting out and destroying the house and putting themselves in harms way. You need to get over yourself, you make a comment like you are lazy if you use a crate and this is what you are going to get. Just b/c you are a behaviorist does not mean you have the greatest of credentials. Just anybody can get a degree pretty much, I have seen it. You have written articles but have you written a book? Nooooooooo

There are SEVERAL trainers out there that do much more harm than good, Pattenson for example, or Milan, I however an not them.

I think we will have to agree to disagree as your advice I have seen on this forum from time to time has been ridiculous.