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Can I leave puppy in bathtub?

16K views 34 replies 15 participants last post by  Curls  
#1 ·
I got a westie puppy 3 weeks ago (almost 3 month old now), and while I like to keep my condo very clean and smell-free, I can't be constantly watching him when he's not sleeping

I've been training him to use pee pads in the house, but he is very inconsistent. Been trying to train him to never step on the living room rug, but have since given up, and the rug now has traces of 5 poops and a dozen pees.

When he pees, whether on the pee pad or on the floor, he'll soon forget that there's a puddle right there and sit right on it while playing with his toys, then spread pee footprints around the house, leaving a huge area to for me to clean. I'm a bit of a germaphobe so a thorough cleaning takes a lot of time. When I'm cleaning he'll be trying to eat the cloth i'm wiping with or lick the soap on the floor or run off to pee on another favorite part of the hardwood or rug, so I put him in the bathtub where he can't do any damage until I'm ready to watch him again. But in the bathtub he'll panic and yelp/bark non-stop for at least half an hour. It doesn't seem to be making bath time more difficult (gave him 8 baths already cuz he keeps getting himself dirty) - he doesn't struggle at all.

Just wondering if there's any long-term emotional trauma that could affect his training if I keep doing this - not just for when I have to clean after him, but for hours at a time when I need to focus on my work...
 
#2 · (Edited)
Congratulations on your puppy.

Bathing him 8 times in 3 weeks seems way too much to me, but I'm not an expert. We bathe our 5 month old once a month max and only if it is really needed. What do you mean he keeps getting himself dirty? Like rolling around in mud? They don't need a full bath every time their paws get dirty or the likes. I just wipe off Nova's paws with an old towel and some warm water if she has really muddy and wet paws before coming inside. It's not good for their coat and skin if you bathe him that often.

I'm a little bit of a neat and clean person myself, but I knew with getting a puppy that level of cleanliness in the house just changes.

Putting your pup in the bathtub is probably not a great idea - could you get a crate and slowly crate train your puppy? There's lots of threads on the forum about this and you can leave your pup in there while cleaning up an accident or when you can't supervise. He'll feel much happier and more secure in a crate that he is used to as his 'resting place' than a bathtub I'd imagine. Crate training also helps with house training.

Can I ask why you use pee pads? Is there no possibility of taking him outside? Pee pads teach your pup that it's okay to go inside the house.
 
#3 ·
I use pee pads because he has no bladder, doesn't give any warning before peeing, and even if he does, I won't be able to get him down 35 floors to the street quickly enough. He knows how to pee and poop outside no problem. Eventually I hope to train him to use the toilet (via a special seat cover), it'll be great for winter.

He keeps getting dirty because when I'm not looking he hangs out on the pee pad, sometimes lying down on fresh pee. Sometimes he eats his own poop and has brown streaks all over his mouth area. A wet cloth doesn't clean thoroughly enough.

He has both a bed and a crate that he will hang out in on his own - the door is always open and unlocked because we want to associate only good things with the crate. We never lock him in there. Even though the crate in the bathroom is within sight of the bed in the bedroom, i'll be lucky if he stays there overnight instead of constantly trying to get on my bed and only slinking off to the bed after half an hour of crying.
 
#5 ·
He keeps getting dirty because when I'm not looking he hangs out on the pee pad, sometimes lying down on fresh pee. Sometimes he eats his own poop and has brown streaks all over his mouth area. A wet cloth doesn't clean thoroughly enough.

He has both a bed and a crate that he will hang out in on his own - the door is always open and unlocked because we want to associate only good things with the crate. We never lock him in there. Even though the crate in the bathroom is within sight of the bed in the bedroom, i'll be lucky if he stays there overnight instead of constantly trying to get on my bed and only slinking off to the bed after half an hour of crying.

If you can’t supervise, use the crate. Puppies need be supervised all the time to prevent toilet accidents and other accidents in the house. That will save you bathing him so much.

It’s awesome you want your pup to associate the crate only with good things, but if he truly does this, it doesn’t matter if the door is shut or open. If it’s a great place to be for your pup, he won’t even care. Our pup loves the crate so much, she goes into it and if I need to do something and can’t supervise her, she is happy to be in there for however long she needs to be. That’s when they really accepted the crate and are happy in there, it does take some time.
 
#4 ·
I wouldn't put him in the bathtub unsupervised.
Personally I'd be too concerned, that he could hurt himself on the slippery material.
Plus sooner or later he will only connect negative feelings with the bathtub.

As for the peeing.
In nearly all cases, they do show signs, that they are about to pee.
You just need to learn them.
Mine, for example, wouldn't whine to get me up, but would lick my face.

When I was awake, he would only sometimes do that; but intense sniffing, moving in circles and the such, are signs, that he's looking for place to pee.

But, I would try it the other way around, if there are 35 stories (Geesh, that is high!).
I would regularly take him and go out *before* he shows any sign.
I preferred doing that, and I don't have a third of these stories.

He wakes up - outside.
He stops playing - outside.
He ate - outside.
He drank - outside.
He was bored - outside.
He was skidderish - outside.

Essentially: He did something or nothing but was awake - I took him outside.

We didn't had many accidents inside.
Sure, they did happen!
A couple of times he would pee on the floor, right after we got inside again.

Was most likely my fault, as it's entirely possible, that there was something outside, that had him distracted.
Could have been a flower, a bee, wind, people,...
 
#6 ·
I wouldn't put him in the bathtub unsupervised.
Personally I'd be too concerned, that he could hurt himself on the slippery material.
Plus sooner or later he will only connect negative feelings with the bathtub.

As for the peeing.
In nearly all cases, they do show signs, that they are about to pee.
You just need to learn them.
Mine, for example, wouldn't whine to get me up, but would lick my face.

When I was awake, he would only sometimes do that; but intense sniffing, moving in circles and the such, are signs, that he's looking for place to pee.
Fully agree on this.

Our pup used to lick our hands when she needed to go in the night when she was sleeping with us. Now she sleeps through though. During the day she will go to the door if she needs to pee or she’ll start wandering around restless and seemingly aimless and whine and I know she needs to go out.
 
#7 · (Edited)
My pup will do the sniffing and walking around thing when he's about to poop, but never when peeing. Sometimes he doesn't even squat when he pees, so there is literally no warning even as I'm watching him. He also pees at least 10 times a day so taking him outside IN CASE he does pee is impractical. The reason why I don't mind him having negative associations with the bathtub is because i can always carry him into it whether he likes it or not.

Washing him has been a breeze - he even lets me spray him with the jet setting so often I just use water pressure in lieu of soap, since i'm washing him so much.

The other day he made a breakthrough and managed to climb out of the tub, so now when i keep him in there i shut the sliding glass door lol.

For about 2 days now I have a cardboard box that I lock him inside of for punishment or temporary quarantine when he's dirty... the benefit is he doesn't further soil himself since the box is much smaller than the tub and doesn't allow room for it, whereas with the tub he ends up slipping and rolling into the pee while struggling to get out. I orient the box vertically after putting him inside so that there is barely any room for him to lie down. Is that inhumane?
 
#8 · (Edited)
Properly crate training a pup keeps your dog safe and secure and happy

The reason why I don't mind him having negative associations with the bathtub is because i can always carry him into it whether he likes it or not.

The other day he made a breakthrough and managed to climb out of the tub, so now when i keep him in there i shut the sliding glass door lol.

For about 2 days now I have a cardboard box that I lock him inside of for punishment or temporary quarantine when he's dirty... whereas with the tub he ends up slipping and rolling into the pee while struggling to get out. I orient the box vertically after putting him inside so that there is barely any room for him to lie down. Is that inhumane?
Hi again. Sounds like you are in a difficult position having this new puppy. Apartment life can be hard with pups, since you cannot just take them outside to potty instantly like you can when you live in a private house. But having 35 floors to do down, wow! Especially when trying to potty train a new dog. Very difficult situation, even if you were ultra dedicated to doing it the best way.

Puppies DO need to be taken out very, very frequently until their young developing brains and their lil bladders are in sync. Not convenient for us owners, but it is a reality for all puppies.

I took my young Puma pup out IN ADVANCE of her needing to tell me or needing to go. We did this many times a day. When I wasn't actively engaging with her, she went back into her beloved crate for rest. Then instantly back outside AS SOON as I took her out of her crate. Rinse and repeat. This made potty training for us a breeze.

I was very lucky that I could take Puma pup to work with me everyday so I could work with her and train her properly. But I still had to make a lot of changes and accommodations that were very inconvenient to my work, my schedule, and my income!

When I was potty training her, I had to very often stop work, close up my shop, potentially lose customers and money while I took her outside to potty over and over again during the day until she learned. She didn't like to potty outside instantly like some dogs, so I had to have a lot of patience with her during this training period. We all have our potty training issues, inconveniences and hardships---it is just part of bringing a puppy into our lives.

But having said all that, that is your current situation, and I am assuming you chose to get a young untrained pup, rather that someone left you with this dog, right?

So, it is never too late to basically start again, change your mindset about training, and study, study, study to learn how to really help your new dog.
I did exactly this when I got my new Puma pup. And she was not our choice exactly---we took her in to "help her" only-- and then find her a home after we took her from the people who were not treating her properly. Of course we kept her...but I had no idea how to properly raise a young pup.

Back to your questions....please, please abandon the whole tub idea. Not safe at all!! She could easily slip (esp if she is trying to escape!!) and hurt her lil body or break some young developing bones etc, etc. So unsafe!!

And believe me, the way you are doing this whole tub idea, she WILL very, very likely soon have very negative associations with showers, baths, water, being in confined spaces, being picked up, being left alone, slippery surfaces, and possibly even you for putting her in that space as punishment or containment. You don't want to start out teaching your young pup that she cannot trust you, right?

I adopted a highly fearful adult dog named Gracie who I write about a lot on this forum. I have had to work with her extensively to help her overcome her zillion fears. Not easy, very time consuming. But completely worth it.

That having been said--- I can see much clearer now when I see dog owners doing things to their dogs, (esp young dogs or new dogs) that can easily cause huge behavioral issues down the road
.
Punishing your dog for getting dirty by isolating him in a locked shower, esp if you are forcing him to go in there, can really set you guys up for some very hard times ahead.

I would absolutely go with crate training instead, or use a play pen, or baby gates to section off part of your room or apartment. Any of these are 100% safer than a shower or bathtub for a pup.

Make his crate the BEST PLACE EVER!!!
Give him amazing food treats in there, safe chew items like bully sticks, a kong stuffed with peanut butter, a safe soft blanket, a safe strong made plush toy, etc. Teach him a cue (special word or phrase) to ask him to go to his crate. Make it sound HAPPY!! When he complies, genuinely THANK HIM, say great job, pup or whatever and then give him ample amazing food bites when he goes in.

Proper positive crate training can literally safe your dog's life as he cannot eat dangerous things like electrical cords, furniture, carpeting, etc.

If you do crate training right, like @kakite says, your dog will soon LOVE his/her crate!
My Puma pup and her Nova pup will vouch for that!:)
 
#9 ·
I'm not too concerned with injuries in the tub. He's fallen from greater heights from my lap or beside me on a park bench, etc, and he's barely 6 pounds.

At any rate, the box has been working out better - I even taped a letter-size sandpaper sheet to the inside of the lid so that when he's scratching at it frantically it'll also file down his nails (since he refuses the electric grinder or manual filing by me)

I pick him up 100 times a day for all sorts of things, including hugs, cuddles, butt/**** wiping, etc, so i think he'll associate soiling himself with the box more than with getting picked up.

His crate is full of toys, blankets, that peanut butter thing, and is located right next to the stash of treats, which I reward him with whenever he goes inside, but he only hangs out there sometimes, usually right in front of it like it's a porch and definitely won't stand for being shut inside it. Whereas he loves the living room carpet - he drags all his toys there, chews there, pees and ****s there if I can't stop it in time...

I keep the crate in a large 2-way bathroom along with all his stuff. I leave the doors open and keep a wire fence at both doorways. We keep a similar set up in the kitchen at my boyfriend's place. But in both cases, he whines and tears up the pee pad when we keep him confined there, unless he's really tired from a long walk or it's bedtime.

FYI the crate is a soft mesh-type that I carry when we're taking him out for a whole day or to places where we have to confine him to prevent accidents.
 
#11 · (Edited)
I take him outside for a continuous 1-2 hours (groceries/errands) every weekday and 2-3 hours on saturday and sunday, to ensure he has no choice but to pee or poop outside. "Outside" isn't the backyard - it's a trip down 35 floors and a couple downtown blocks over to the nearest green space. I can do this 20 times a day (15 min each = 5 hours?) hoping he'll get his 10 pees in at a 50% success rate, but chances are he'll just wait it out each time. Also I might as well be unemployed to have that kind of time.

Him pooping and peeing outside is inevitable... like I said, i'm more focused on the goal of eventually having him use the toilet, that's why for now it's all about the pee pads. I reward him even when he shoots too close to the edge of the pad and makes a mess anyway. I only ever punish him when I catch him in the act. I dab a bit of pee in the center of the next fresh pee pad to help him find it better.

He mostly gets punished via box if say he got himself too dirty to be put on a leash and I need to save the hardwood floors from the urine first before cleaning him. I don't care if he hates the box as long as he loves the crate. Heck, some dogs love boxes.

I originally wanted to adopt a 1 year old, but I was also dead set on a westie-looking dog, and those never end up at shelters for good reason. I knew it'll be tons of work and I'm averaging 4+ hours a day cleaning him/after him, playing, training, monitoring for accidents about to happen, etc. I just want to be effective and am not going to work around assumed human emotions for a canine that can't even remember what he did 5 minutes ago or recognize himself in a mirror!
 
#14 ·
He mostly gets punished via box if say he got himself too dirty to be put on a leash and I need to save the hardwood floors from the urine first before cleaning him. I don't care if he hates the box as long as he loves the crate. Heck, some dogs love boxes.

I originally wanted to adopt a 1 year old, but I was also dead set on a westie-looking dog, and those never end up at shelters for good reason. I knew it'll be tons of work and I'm averaging 4+ hours a day cleaning him/after him, playing, training, monitoring for accidents about to happen, etc. I just want to be effective and am not going to work around assumed human emotions for a canine that can't even remember what he did 5 minutes ago or recognize himself in a mirror!
Puppies need to be cared for and loved and that involves effort such as training, building a relationship and trust with them and finding out about their personalities and what works for them. It takes patience and consistency and a lot of adjustment. The cleaning up after them regarding the toilet training stops very soon, if you train them right.

You seem to be set on what you are already doing. A lot of behavioral issues show up way later than you might think, so consider carefully how you impact this animal that is fully dependent on you, because any issues in the future will be coming back to you to address.

When I first got my puppy, I did a lot of reading on here and how to house train, crate train etc and it has made all the difference in the world. I can only recommend to you to at least consider a change in your way of thinking. You should care about what your dog hates by the way!

All the best, this is all I wanted to add to this thread.
 
#12 ·
I think their point is that what you are doing isn't going to work as well as you think it will. They aren't trying to attach human traits to a canine. They're trying to say that shock collars, bathtubs, and boxes aren't effective ways to house break a puppy, which is why you are having trouble, so many accidents and having to clean up so much. They're simply trying to offer alternative methods.

I have a very young mixed breed puppy. He hasn't had a poo accident in probably two weeks (I've only had him like 3 weeks) and he doesn't have many pee accidents at all anymore. He is only 8-9 weeks old so this is quite good. I don't use indoor pee pads and I take him out as often as I can. If he has a pee accident, I get him and take him where he is supposed to go... And tell him good boy when he finishes. Clean up the accident and move along.

I was tasked with training my own puppy when I was just 8 years old. I stuck many a puppy nose in pee and poo and smacked him over the head etc. I was taught that this was how you house broke a puppy. It did mostly work, but it took a long time and the dog still did have the occassional accident in the house.

It wasn't the right way to train him, but I didn't know that. I was a child and my parents were not competent with animals. They still aren't. As far as the 35 floors down go, perhaps a dog wasn't the right choice at all. Cats make lovely pets too and you don't have to take them outside ever.
 
#13 ·
Personally, I don't think pee pad training is a great idea. At the end of the day, you are training your dog that you want them to go to the bathroom in your house. I have seen that generalize to pieces of paper on the floor, rugs, blankets on the floor, etc, that remind the puppy of the pee pad. Teaching a puppy "it's OK to go to the bathroom in this little tiny space, but NOT any of these other spaces" takes time. IMO, it introduces more likelihood of accidents than "go to the bathroom outside but not inside".

House training in a high rise is difficult. I housetrained a multitude of puppies (my own and service dogs in training) in a third floor apartment, and even that was extremely annoying. I am sure that's multiplied by 32 on the 35th floor.

That said, your best chance to avoid accidents is to set up a potty schedule. Ideally, you'd be able to take him out for a short trip every 15-20min. If that is impossible because of how long it takes to get outside, then I would say 30min would be the most amount of time I would expect a 6lb, 3 month old puppy to be going between pee breaks. Go outside for a few minutes, give him a chance, and if he doesn't pee, he should be crated until you can try again. Do not take him out, have him not go, and then let him loose. He WILL have an accident almost immediatly after. A puppy at this age needs to earn freedom by empying themselves out. If they haven't, even if you're watching them, they're going to have an accident.

He looks like he doesn't realize he's peeing because he really has very little control over those muscles at this age. He isn't thinking "I have to pee and I'm going to pee here", it's probably more "I have to- I'm peeing". A frequent schedule is the ONLY way you are going to curtail accidents.

Secondly, I would suggest crate training. Get a wire crate, I would guess he'll fit in a 24" full grown, but you'll want to use the divider for now so that he only has enough room to stretch out fully, but not enough to pee or poop and then move away. Usually, dogs will not soil a kennel setup like this unless it is a true emergency, in which case they'll usually give vocal forewarning. If he is soiling the kennel and sitting in it, that's a different discussion and usually points to inappropriate conditions while with the breeder. That can mean anything from a puppy mill to a well intentioned breeder who kept their puppy in a huge kennel while they were away at work and the pup had no choice but to go to the bathroom in there and learned bad habits (as happened with my own Boston Terrier).

A play pen is also very useful. A wire X-pen, setup on floor that is easily cleaned, and filled with puppy toys can be moved into the room(s) you are in during the day, and will provide an enclose space that can be easily cleaned of mess if he makes it. Again, this is a place for him to be once you're reasonably sure he won't have to go to the bathroom. I still take my young (and especially small breed puppies) out every 20min (in your case, 30min) when in the X-pen, but it makes accidents easier to clean and keep track of (because it's positioned to be in my eyeline) and stops the puppy from wandering in the house and getting into things or going to the bathroom on surfaces that will be harder to clean.

A note on your not wanting to work around assumed human emotions... Dogs are not human, and their emotional complexity is not the same as ours. That said, most of the chemical processes of the base emotions like pain, fear/anxiety, etc have proven to be the same across species. If we are experiencing the same chemical effect, the likelihood is that the brain is interpreting those chemical cues in a similar way in different species. That is to say, dogs do feel pain, fear, anxiety. PTSD has been observed in dogs. They form complex social attachments. While we should be hesitant to cast dogs as tiny humans in fur suits, because their species is not an identical copy of ours, we also should be cautious in minimizing their emotional complexity out of a misplaced sense of human superiority, as the science is combatting that belief as well.
 
#17 · (Edited)
Dogs feel pain, fear, anxiety. Lets work with our dogs, not against them.

He looks like he doesn't realize he's peeing because he really has very little control over those muscles at this age. He isn't thinking "I have to pee and I'm going to pee here", it's probably more "I have to- I'm peeing". A frequent schedule is the ONLY way you are going to curtail accidents.

A note on your not wanting to work around assumed human emotions...
Dogs are not human, and their emotional complexity is not the same as ours.

That said, most of the chemical processes of the base emotions like
pain, fear/anxiety, etc have proven to be the same across species.


If we are experiencing the same chemical effect, the likelihood is that the brain is interpreting those chemical cues in a similar way in different species. That is to say, dogs do feel pain, fear, anxiety. PTSD has been observed in dogs. They form complex social attachments.

While we should be hesitant to cast dogs as tiny humans in fur suits, because their species is not an identical copy of ours, we also should be cautious in minimizing their emotional complexity out of a misplaced sense of human superiority, as the science is combatting that belief as well.
YES! YES! YES!

I agree with all of this completely! Thank you, @Moonstream, for putting it in writing here, for so many dog owners to read and understand. Dogs are so intelligent, complex, intuitive, and certainly are subject to so many vast emotions!

Unfortunately, like you said, dogs do feel pain, fear, and anxiety.

I always tell people, that FEAR is very real to dogs!

Even if we don't understand it or see "why..." or we think something is easy or not scary, for a dog it can be very scary or traumatic or anxiety inducing.

I think a lot of people just brush it off and say "Ooohh it's just a dog, they'll get over it, no problem, don't worry about doing XYZ to them, they won't care." Not so at all! Dogs have long memory capabilities, especially when it comes to fear!

PTSD is real in humans---- and in dogs. And it takes tons and tons of work to undo the damage (fear) in dogs once it sets in. My beloved sweet Gracie dog has sure taught me this...and then some!

Working with our dogs rather than working against them (or forcing them to do traumatic things) seems to me to be a much more humane, kinder, gentler approach to dog training... and most likely will yield a more trusting and mutually respectful longterm relationship with our beloved dogs.
 
#15 ·
Dog/Puppy potty accidents...are most often actually human errors!

I got a westie puppy 3 weeks ago (almost 3 month old now), and while I like to keep my condo very clean and smell-free, I can't be constantly watching him when he's not sleeping.

When he pees...,, leaving a huge area to for me to clean. I'm a bit of a germaphobe so a thorough cleaning takes a lot of time

... so I put him in the bathtub where he can't do any damage until I'm ready to watch him again.

But in the bathtub he'll panic and yelp/bark non-stop for at least half an hour.


Just wondering if there's any long-term emotional trauma
that could affect his training if I keep doing this - not just for when I have to clean after him, but for hours at a time when I need to focus on my work...

Originally Posted by genteelpuppies
... I was also looking for a remote-controlled vibrating collar where I can buzz him from a distance when he's about to **** on my carpet and I can't reach him in time.

*****************

Puppy potty accidents...are most often actually human errors!

***Using a bathtub to isolate and punish your young puppy for potty errors is unfair, unsafe, unproductive...and most importantly INHUMANE!

**** Yes, this can cause longterm multiple emotional trauma to your dog! ****

What concerns me about your question here is that you are more concerned with affecting your dog's training...not his well being! Ouch!

You said your dog is panicking in the tub already, right???? Well that can't be good, right? You are probably ALREADY affecting your dog's well being. Maybe you didn't know that--- well now you do! Others here have given you the same advice so please, please reconsider your methodology you are using with this dog. He cannot speak for himself, he is ENTIRELY dependent on YOU for his welfare, well being and safety!! You chose him, now please do the right things for him, ok?

You asked in your other post about using a shock collar to potty train your pup.....

So, using any type of electronic collar (shock, vibrating, etc) on a puppy for potty training mistakes IS A VERY BAD IDEA! PERIOD!!!!

Think about it, would you shock a human baby or toddler when they make potty mistakes????
No animal or human is born knowing how to potty in the "right" spot. Heck, I am quite sure your new tiny puppy has NO IDEA what the "right" spot is at this point. He is probably completely confused about the whole potty issue. I would be, based on your description of how you are training him!!

PLEASE UNDERSTAND: A dog that is punished for pottying (pee or poop) in the "wrong spot" when he does not yet understand what you want...will very likely start to HIDE his potty! This will only increase his chances of error, not at all give you the desired results! Then what? Increase his punishments and confuse him even more???

And....he may very well become totally scared of you since he NEEDS to potty asap, (tiny bladder) but isn't allowed to go in the appropriate place (outdoors) so he will become very terrified of you and getting yelled at or zapped... or whatever unfair punishment you will try next.

Please, please understand this: Your tiny pup is not "rebelling" against you!!
Again, he is most likely confused and...He has to potty asap!!!!! He can't hold it til it is convenient for you, sorry. Heck, when I have to pee nowadays, I gotta go...and soon! I cannot wait for hours to do my next pee. And when I wake up, I need to pee asap. Go down 35 flights of stairs before my morning pee?? I am telling you that would be very, very difficult for me most all mornings. Now think of your itty bitty tiny new young puppy....

If you cannot think of this similar to a human baby not being able to hold their pee or poop...maybe think of it in terms of an older person who is incontinent or has problems controlling their pee/poo. Maybe this will resonate with you better? My mom is in recovery at an assisted living facility for a broken neck. Many folks there have incontinence issues as they are older or have serious ailments. So....if they could not hold their pee (or poop) at times would we shock (or vibrate) them or punish them or yell at them?? If so, that would certainly be abusive, right? In my country (USA) you could probably go to jail for that offense.

Instead we work with the incontinent folks to retrain their brains to go into the bathroom more often, go on a schedule, ask for help, use helpful devices/items, etc.

This is what someone else suggested here to you already...you need to take your pup out more often IN ADVANCE of the potty accident. Get on a schedule.


If you cannot do this because of your own time schedule or the crazy 35 flights of stairs is too much for you...

Maybe seriously think of re-homing this innocent dog, a real live being with a brain and emotions, to a family that can properly and humanely train him.


I am not trying to be rude here, and I never ever take re-homing a dog lightly, but in some cases it is just more humane to give a dog up if the conditions don't match your current lifestyle/home/cleanliness issues or expectations of what it means to raise a dog healthily and humanely.

And if you do decide to re-home this pup please do it soon, before the dog acquires too many fears, anxieties, and associations. Like someone else mentioned here, a dog that has so many issues, especially if he starts using aggression to solve his problems, is way harder to rehome, and many times the very sad reality is that the dog gets euthanized due to over crowding at shelters. The "easy" non issue dogs tend to get saved, the high issues dogs get euthanized faster.

Very sad reality, which is another reason my mission is to help as many dogs as possible BEFORE they get to this point!!!

I always say: Most all potty accidents are HUMAN ERROR! We did not give the dog a fair opportunity to relieve himself. Or he hasn't yet learned what is expected of him/her.

Takes time, knowledge and loads of patience to teach any dog, especially young puppies with tiny bladders!!!


 
#19 ·
Westies are small enough for potty pads to be easy. I didn't think I'd like potty pads either and could hardly wait to train Laurel to go outside instead.

It turns out that, as a longtime but now former cat person, the potty pads that she was accustomed to were the perfect fit for us: Laurel gets her independence, I get to be lazy, and there is no litter to buy, scoop, or change. Little dog poop is easy to slide into the toilet as soon as I notice it. I use washable incontinence pads from a medical supply house so we're talking one or two extra loads of laundry a week and a few cents worth of detergent. I feed Laurel quality food so there really isn't any odor, unlike the ammonia smell in kitty pee.

Little dogs are fantastic pets for fastidious people.

Laurel knows she can go outside if potty pads aren't available but Chocolate didn't know she could use potty pads if outside isn't available. Her original humans were 100% honest when they said she never has accidents "unless you forget to let her out" and I forget! She just shakes herself and stands looking expectantly at the door to let me know she needs to go out and I don't always notice.

I'm so proud of her for pooping on a potty pad this morning. I don't even care that I deliberately and purposefully put it on one of the two places I have been finding poop accidents after deliberately and purposefully not using Nature's Miracle. I care even less about deliberately and purposefully posting a minority opinion on an internet forum, to be bluntly honest. :p

When Laurel decided that she'd rather walk to the bedroom potty pad and use the living room potty pad as a soft place to hang out and chew on her toys, I cut back to a single potty area and got her a dog bed for the living room.

Maybe we'll cut back to a single potty pad as Chocolate gets the hang of her relatively new lazy owner or maybe I'll get used to having potty pads in places I wouldn''t have chosen myself. I just don''t want to clean up accidents or forget to let the dog out yet again.

Moonstream does make some very good points about why potty pads aren't even on the table for THEM, but I don't mind having a good reason to keep my house tidy instead of forgetting to put dirty clothes in the hamper and my pretty rugs are just as pretty in my car or hanging on my walls like tapestries.

Different dog owners have different opinions but my relationships with my dogs are more important than being popular on the internet.

Please don't get a kitty if excrement grosses you out. Kitties can't help it, but their excrement smells like ammonia and litterboxes MUST be scooped daily or changed and scrubbed twice a week. Cats' noses are more sensitive than ours and they don't like the smell of their own excrement any more than humans do.
 
#20 · (Edited)
A quick update - he's 4 months old now and we don't know what to make of his bladder capacity... he can go for many hours without peeing after a drink, or pee 3 times an hour. He can poop minutes after a meal, or 8 hours later. For this reason we only feed him in the evenings if no one is around to watch him during the day. He also eats his own poop (the vet prescribed an additive to the food to make his poop taste bad, but it didn't make a difference). We also experimented with keeping him in the crate while i'm at work, to use the confined space to force him not to poop when we're not around to stop him from eating it or smearing it around. It worked great for a few days, but then he started pooping and peeing in the crate, so now we let him loose in the bathroom (with crate, pad, toys and all) when we're out. So far every poop and pee while we're not home has been on the pad, and he seems to be able to hold it for a long time, which makes his occasional accidents (with us around) all the more head-scratching.

I still leave him in the tub now and then, but it hasn't affected other bathing him, which remains a breeze. He even lifts up each paw sequentially to let me spray at their undersides, doesn't flinch away when I spray his face directly or my fingers inside his ears to clean them, all the while looking totally defeated. But after a good blow-dry, he's back to the usual high-energy and even better, because he knows he gets extra cuddles and bed time next to us when he's clean.

I've also been trying good old corporal punishments, via empty paper towel rolls. He now retreats to his crate when I so much as reach for the roll lol. I happen to go through paper towel so quickly to clean up his messes such that I get a new empty roll to beat the dog with just as the previous roll starts falling apart from "overuse" lol
 
#22 ·
I've also been trying good old corporal punishments, via empty paper towel rolls. He now retreats to his crate when I so much as reach for the roll lol. I happen to go through paper towel so quickly to clean up his messes such that I get a new empty roll to beat the dog with just as the previous roll starts falling apart from "overuse" lol
Please just stop doing this. It's not clever. It's not funny. All you're doing is creating a neurotic dog and damaging your relationship with him.

You can do better than this!
 
#21 ·
It's not funny that your dog retreats from you. It's not funny that you punish the dog so hard you need to renew the punisher.

It's no mystery that he still has accidents, he's still immature. This is normal, he probably just gets so enthralled with whatever activity y'all are doing that he doesn't get much notice of need.
 
#25 ·
What's the big deal? My parents hit me with a stick, which hurts way more than a paper tube, and I was fine. Scolding him honestly takes more energy than hitting him, since I'll have to pretend to be angry when all I care about is deterrence.

The eating his own poop thing according to the vet is from the smell of food in his feces, common in puppies since their digestive systems are not fully there. It could also be his diet, hence I'm planning to switch him to a something more nutritionally complete.

I never put him in his crate. I lure him there with food, even if he comes back out after. He always goes to his crate on his own when he wants to sleep.

Any fear he has of me is brief, since he is always running to me, and jumping onto whatever furniture i'm sitting on. If I'm walking him and he refuses to keep going, I just throw down the leash and walk away, at which he'll pick up the leash with his mouth before running after me.
 
#26 · (Edited)
It is clearly a waste of time trying to offer advice here anymore.

At best, this poster is a troll because I notice that his posts are inflammatory while being right underneath breaking forum rules. His posts have a few inconsistencies such as him claiming to be extremely thorough when cleaning up the messes, while at the same time claiming he uses only paper towels to clean the messes.

At worst, he is a poor dog owner who refuses to take any of the well thought out advice he was given and continues to treat his dog poorly. In both cases, however... It is my opinion that he needs to grow up.

Honestly I smell a troll at this point, so I will pack the food up and leave this thread.
 
#28 · (Edited)
His posts have a few inconsistencies such as him claiming to be extremely thorough when cleaning up the messes, while at the same time claiming he uses only paper towels to clean the messes...
First I soak/pick-up everything in toilet paper, then spray an enzyme cleaner over the area, initial wipe with paper towel, spray again / scrub with a wire brush if grout lines in the large-format tile are affected, or a thorough rubbing with lysol wipe over hardwood), rinse/soak in hot water (tile only), then dry with more paper towel. I avoid reusable cloths because there'll always be a hint of odor.
 
#30 · (Edited)
Have you tried a grass area indoors?

I got a westie puppy 3 weeks ago (almost 3 month old now), and while I like to keep my condo very clean and smell-free, I can't be constantly watching him when he's not sleeping

I've been training him to use pee pads in the house, but he is very inconsistent. Been trying to train him to never step on the living room rug, but have since given up, and the rug now has traces of 5 poops and a dozen pees.
I haven't read the other replies so I don't know if anyone else suggested this, but since your dog is a smaller size and you're in a condo 35 floors up (?), I'd try one of those indoor grass areas for a dog to go to the bathroom. You could buy one or make one yourself. They have artificial grass and a tray underneath. You could even add a mini dog fire hydrant for more incentive. That's what I'd do for a small dog if I was 35 floors from any other means of using a bathroom.

As a side note, I first read a post from you a few days ago and since I've seen the messages stating that you're a troll. I'd be offended too, but things you say are truly pushing the limits of belief that you're legit. If so many suspect you of trolling..and if you're not...you should take that as a sign that you need to read up, research and get help on raising a dog. And when people give you advice keep an open mind and listen. Like not hitting your dog. Like not ignoring his pleas for help at a dog park and he's overwhelmed.
 
#31 ·
My friends and coworkers suggested the artificial grass but I can't imagine cleaning poop off of it to be any easier than just rolling up a disposable pee pad. When I take him outside he usually poops and pees on various hard surfaces anyway.

As for hitting, I've read that a whack on the nose or a nip in the ear works wonders if timed right. Isn't it the same as spraying lemon juice on his poop to prevent coprophagia, so that he associates negative experiences with unwanted behaviour? I don't see it as an obviously bad thing
 
#32 ·
As for hitting, I've read that a whack on the nose or a nip in the ear works wonders if timed right. Isn't it the same as spraying lemon juice on his poop to prevent coprophagia, so that he associates negative experiences with unwanted behaviour? I don't see it as an obviously bad thing
You risk those negative experiences attaching to things other than what you want. Our rescue Pepper is a prime example. It's taken two years to get an enthusiastic recall because she was recalled to be punished in her old home. she used to slink near us and be very hang dog about recall. That kind of treatment can seriously damage the relationship you are trying to build.

With Echo punishment made her defensive and had we continued she would have become an aggressive dog. Her natural response is definitely fight over flight. I have put a lot of work into teaching her that flight is the only acceptable response by always providing her with somewhere safe to run.

Over the last 30 years or so there's been a big movement away from punishment as a go to for controlling behavior. with better techniques it's become less and less necessary to communicate what you want with punishment.

You should also be aware that this forum is devoted to no/low punishment techniques. We can not advise you on them due to the rules.
 
#34 ·
I have never posted anything on any forum before. So, congrats. You've pushed me past my tolerance threshold. Stop punishing your dog because you are a dumbass. And, just because your parents used corporal punishment on you, doesn't make it right, for humans or dogs. It is not surprising that your posts characterize you as an abuser (deny, minimize, and shift the blame is your M.O.) I survived a hellish childhood, so I know its possible to break that cycle. Your posts are so outrageous that I seriously considered the possibility you're making all this up; that you don't even have a dog. Sadly, that's likely just my being too optimistic.
 
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