I would just walk and pull him with me.When he would start going by him self,I would give some treat.
Does the dog respect you?

 

Personally, I would highly advise against this approach. This will really upset your dog, and make certain that walking is a miserable experience. Think about when you first put a leash on a dog. They will dig in their heels and pull backwards if they feel the leash pulling them. It's instinctive for them to resist being forced into something.

If your dog is really this stubborn about walking, then the fix might test your patience. My advice would be to get your dog into a good mood and then put the leash on. Don't get preoccupied with your feelings of anxiety when getting ready to walk or your dog will pick that up. Get a bag of treats and go outside. Then, just wait for your dog to start walking - anywhere. Immediately praise and give him/her a treat. If the dog stops, just stop with them and wait patiently. Repeat this. If you loose patience and pull, you'll have to start over.

I have a young puppy I'm training right now, and he didn't want to "sit". I usually teach this by getting their attention, bringing the treat a little higher than head height, and then gently pushing the treat into the dog. This causes the dog to first look up, which aligns their body to sit, and when the treat keeps coming in, they will usually just sit down with no prompting. (do not push hard! very little to no contact is necessary for this). This almost always works, but my puppy wasn't having it. So, I got out the treats and waited for him to sit on his own. Once he did, I immediately gave him a treat, and when he went nuts I ignored him and waited for him to calm down and sit. Another treat. This took all of 2 training sessions for him to understand that if he sat calmly, he'd get a treat.

This goes against the grain of many people, who want to force the behavior on their dog. Pushing a dog into a sitting position and then trying to treat them for it will possibly injure your dog's back and almost certainly cause them to fear training time. Same goes for walking. Your dog should think of you with love and trust - so a little extra patience with training is a required element. You might have to spend some time just standing and waiting for your dog to decide to walk. After a time, your dog will associate walking next to your with happiness, because when he/she does this, they get a treat. Then you shouldn't have any more issues.

 

There is something very unpleasant for him about walking on a leash and he is telling you that very clearly. Now your puzzle is to figure out what it is, or what has happened.

So I'd start looking at some questions.
- What sort of collar are you walking him with?
- does he ever get jerked with the leash?
- Is there anything along your usual walk path that he shows fear or hesitation towards?
- has he ever been attacked by another dog while on a walk?
- is he frightened of cars or loud noises on his walk
- etc.
The answer is going to be something along these lines...

I would NOT just drag him. That will be very unpleasant for him, and will only prove to him how much he dislikes walking on a leash. Yes, DO REWARD him with treats or bits of kibble, when he walks forward. You might have to start with rewarding him for taking a single step.

First, is to find out the cause of his extreme distaste for walks.
Second, do what you can to eliminate the problem.
Third, retrain him to enjoy his walks by making it a positive experience: food rewards, tossing a ball along the way, walking with another dog... get creative. You know what he likes!

This is not about respect or dominance. The dog is telling you that walking on the leash is frightening or painful or in some way very unpleasant for him. It must be something pretty bad as a Visla, an active hunting dog, who does not want to get out and stretch his legs, is very unusual!

Good luck and do tell us what you figure out!

 

Thankyou for the advice.

I wouldn't pull him because I do think that will escalate the problem, Vizslas are know to be very sensitive to harsh training methods. He is also upwards of 25kgs and I don't want to hurt him.

With regards to respect it is hard to say. Sometimes he seems like a very submissive, anxious boy and sometimes he seems like he is being dominant. We also have a German shorthaired pointer (who loves walking!) and the vizsla often growls at him when he is on his bed and doesnt want share. But the pointer always eats first, comes through the door first etc. The vizsla does ignore us sometimes.

With regards to the reward its a little tricky because when we are out trying to walk he is so frozen that he won't take a treat at all - not even raw chicken or steak. But we will persist with positive reinforcement.

I think this started around the time I took him for a walk as a young pup and for some reason that day every dog in the neighbourhood was barking and jumping up at their gates, Archie used to be very sensitive to loud noises especially other dogs barking and he came back very scared.

My question is, with a dog who won't follow food, me calling and running, a toy, our other dog or anything else how can I get him to take some steps!?

 

What you describe is actually a dog who is fairly timid and overwhelmed, not dominant or stubborn or even disrespectful.

When he won't even take a treat, he is getting close to, or even over his "threshold" in terms of what he can take for "input" into his brain. He's probably quite scared.

I believe you are starting to identify the source of the problem in your story of the day he was scared on his walk by all the other dogs barking and so forth. Now he is 10 months old, which is quite a tender age for a young male. He is now big enough that other dogs will expect him to behave like an adult and often other dogs will be quite hard on a young male, particularly if he is not neutered, but even a neutered male will be "shown his place" in the world of dogs.

It may be a very good idea for the time being to not try to walk him down the road that frightens him, as that is just pushing the issue at a time when what he needs is more confidence and a few more months to grow up.

This is his adolescence and its an important time in his growth. He needs activities that build his confidence and his sense of safety about the world. He needs experiences he is succeeding in rather than experiences that frighten him.

Are there any positive dog classes you could take him to... classes in agility or positive obedience classes? It would be vital these are taught as positive reinforcement rather than "yanking" on the lead type of classes. Something to get him out seeing other dogs in a controlled and friendly environment would be helpful. Also having him learning to follow your commands in a joyful setting is key.

I would approach this problem of not wanting to walk on the lead as a whole-life puzzle.

Also, here is a book I recommend that taught me a lot about reading the emotions of my dogs. I was quite surprised to find out some of their behaviors I had been interpreting as ignoring me, or being disrespectful or disobedient, are not that at all. Its a great read, lots of pics and only takes a short time to go through. It has revolutionized my understanding of dogs!

Amazon.com: On Talking Terms With Dogs: Calming Signals (9781929242368): Turid Rugaas: Books

 

your dog is doing som'thing called "shut down". Otherwise known as "learned helplessness"

http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...fl=en&q=define:Learned+helplessness&sa=X&ei=wR4qTdStBomasAPf9qSGBw&ved=0CBcQkAE

The dog doesn't want to do som'thing, but can't excape it, so the brain gets overwhelmed and essentially, overloads and turns off. Thats why food, toys, praise etc etc do not work at that point. The dog is in limbo som'where between fight and flight.

Vislas are sensitive, you are absolutely right...this will take time to fix. Taking VERY short walks, even a house or two (or less) many times a day, and returning home BEFORE the dog can shut down is your best bet...over time the dog will become more comfortable and will walk longer distances.

My pit bull did the same thing, Its frustrating, I know. But it IS fear based(or just massive overstimulation)...it has nothing to do with being stuborn, dominant, or the dog not respecting you,its her being overwhelmed and unable to cope.

 

your dog is doing som'thing called "shut down". Otherwise known as "learned helplessness"

define:Learned helplessness - Google Search

The dog doesn't want to do som'thing, but can't excape it, so the brain gets overwhelmed and essentially, overloads and turns off. Thats why food, toys, praise etc etc do not work at that point. The dog is in limbo som'where between fight and flight.

Vislas are sensitive, you are absolutely right...this will take time to fix. Taking VERY short walks, even a house or two (or less) many times a day, and returning home BEFORE the dog can shut down is your best bet...over time the dog will become more comfortable and will walk longer distances.

My pit bull did the same thing, Its frustrating, I know. But it IS fear based(or just massive overstimulation)...it has nothing to do with being stuborn, dominant, or the dog not respecting you,its her being overwhelmed and unable to cope.

I've never had a dog go into this state. Is it usually possible to ease them out of it over time? I would guess that you'd have to first identify the cause of the shut down, which can be difficult since it could be some stimuli you don't even notice while doing something, like walking. Then something would be done to adjust your dog's reaction or feelings about that situation. If it's fear-based, this sounds very difficult to do. I'd also guess this would take a lot more time/patience than training normally does.

 

Thankyou Criosphynx,

That is very helpful, that is exactly what he is doing, it will be easier not to become frustrated now that we understand it better. I will start that today, I will have to start just going from the yard to the gate and back and praising first and gradually try to get him one step out the gate and so on. Hopefully this works.

I think going home before he shuts down is going to be vital. Thankyou very much. I'll let you know how it goes in a few days.

 

Hi Tess,

Thankyou, not being dog trainers or having had many dogs before it was tricky to know what to do about this but I am very glad I posted.

He did go to dog obedience for the first 6 months and we will start again. It is a postive reinforcement class. It will be interesting to see how he goes at the class compared to how he was before, his confidence has definately dropped in the last few months.

In regards to him with other dogs, he loves to socialise at our local dog park - everytime he meets a new dog, he does a play bow type of thing, but drops the side of his face all the way onto the ground under the new dogs face and slides under them ending up in a submissive position. Dogs react to this with a bit of a confused expression!? However with dogs he has known his whole life he is dominent. My friend has a female lab and he growled and bared his teeth at her trying to guard his favourite tea-towel one day.....

The walking is our only real problem, but do you think it might be worth some one on one behavioural type training with a professional? I am not sure what behaviours are normal and what arn't. But I don't want to waste a lot of money if you dont think it will help. I want him to grow up to be a happy confident dog - how much time do I have to fix this before it will be almost impossible?

 

The walking is our only real problem, but do you think it might be worth some one on one behavioural type training with a professional? I am not sure what behaviours are normal and what arn't. But I don't want to waste a lot of money if you dont think it will help. I want him to grow up to be a happy confident dog - how much time do I have to fix this before it will be almost impossible?

As far as hiring someone, well if you know of someone who is truly good and positive, that's great. But honestly, finding a good trainer or behaviorist is not easy. I've been duped before, and had to undo the damage later.

Maybe see if you can make progress with him yourself for a few weeks. You might be surprised how much you can do when you trust your heart and read your dog right. Don't listen to people who tell you this is all about dominance or who tell you to use force or frighten the dog.

As far as "time running out" there is no such thing! So long as you feel you are making a positive difference, life is good! Dogs are always a work in progress and perfectly capable of learning throughout life! If you hang out here on dogforum for a while, you will read about troubled dogs rescued well into adulthood, and rehabilitated from fearful or aggressive behaviors using positive reinforcement.

Good luck and we all hope you stay in touch here....

 

Also he is neutered.

 

Crios and I were writing at the same time and looks like we are on the same wavelength.

Just want to reassure you that these behaviors really can be changed slowly with the patience and love you obviously have for your boy. Take it slow, provide experiences at a pace he can handle, keep tuned to his reactions, and also have some faith that along with training, maturity also helps.

Our male, Josey had a lot of timid type problems at 10 months, most of which he is largely over at 2.5 years. We worked on things slowly, gave him a break from a few things that frightened him, then came back to them later. Mostly we set him up for successful experiences and lots of positive reinforcement.

 

Thankyou everyone! I am feeling much more positive about this now.

Day one of our new approach started today.
I started by taking both dogs to the oval as I know Archie loves it there he always displays happy positive behaviour and runs around like a crazy vizsla should! Usually I open the boot and let him run off lead straight away and back to the car off lead because I didn't know what to do before when he froze.

This time I let him run off lead for about 10 minutes, running around and playing with him and making sure he was having a great time. Then I put his lead on and he immediately stiffened his posture but didn't sit down. I had lots of treats and I lured him one step with one and gave him the treat. He gradually went further and although he stopped 5 or 6 times we went about 50 metres or so then I stopped, took the lead off and played again. He also walked to the car with the lead on. The walking to the car is what he is usually capable of but the walking on lead at the oval is a massive step.

My plan is to gradually walk him further and further around the oval which is his 'safe zone' and eventually over the next few weeks try going onto the asphalt and eventually the footpath.

Thanks again for all of your help and I will post again in the coming days.