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First off, hello! This is my first post on The Dog Forum. I've seen multiple very useful questions answered here but never made an account for the simple reason of forgetting to do so. But I finally have! It's too bad my first post has to be something so disappointing.

I just got my dog, Josie's, Wisdom Panel results. My family has waited patiently for three weeks for these, eager to see what our Schipperke/mix was mixed with. The animal shelter told us she was Schipperke mixed with something, but didn't know. She's obviously part Schipperke, both in appearance and in mannerisms.

What did the Wisdom Panel say? 75% Pomeranian. 25% Mixed Breed. Didn't even list the 25% she could be, saying her DNA was "close to Plott Hound and Cesky Terrier," but had purebred Pomeranian all the way back with one or two mixes in there. Um . . . what?? My dog is not a Pomeranian. She's a fifteen pound medium-haired black dog with a long snout and large ears.

Anyone else had a complete flop with Wisdom Panel? I'm going to call them in the morning and ask for a refund or a redo on the test. But I'm not sure if waiting another three long weeks to get 80% Great Dane or something else ridiculous is worth it. Thoughts? Advice? Your experience with Wisdom Panel?
 

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Schipperke share very similar physical charicteristics to Pomeranians. And they are quite rare, even at dog shows you'll have a hard time finding one. With mixes you never really know what you're going to end up with, it's not like an equal blend of white and black to give you grey. We have a patient at my work that is what the owners are calling a "Double doodle"; apparently this is a thing. The dog is a mix of 2 doodle mixes, a Labradoodle and a Pyradoodle(Great Pyrenees / Poodle). When he first came in as an 8 week old puppy he looked exactly like a Golden Retriever; in fact he looked like a well bred Golden Retriever puppy, solid conformation all around. It wasn't until he was 16 weeks old that his looks started going a bit "off" and you could see the slight chance of there being something else in him. Now that he's just over a year old he still looks mostly Golden with a bit of extra fluff/wave to his coat and some wiry hair on his face. Do you have any photos of your pup that you could share with us?
 

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Discussion Starter #3 (Edited)
Thank you so much for replying! I do understand that they share similar characteristics. And she could have some Pomeranian in her--I see it. But the fact that they listed her great-grandparents, grandparents, and one side of her parents as pure Pomeranian with only one Pom-mix in the other parents left me completely baffled. And the fact that they detected Cesky Terrier and Plott Hound in her and said her predicted adult weight was 6 lbs? I was a little confused, ha ha. Here's some pictures of her.
 

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To be quite honest with you, those DNA tests quite frequently turn out to be wrong, unfortunately. We can do them at the hospital I work at, but we generally don't advertise it and only reluctantly do it for people. Don't like for people to potentially be wasting their money :/
 

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What made the animal shelter suspect Schipperke? Did they have the mother dog and know that she was Schipperke, were they going by what the previous owner said, or did they just guess? Guesses can often be completely wrong, most people guess that my boy is a rat terrier mix, but he's 1/2 dach and at least part chi, and that I know for a fact. I'm just not sure if the Chi was full bred or not. If a shelter got him they'd likely guess rat terrier mix, and whomever got DNA test done on him might be shocked at the results.

The Pom reading on your girl is strange given how small poms are and how large she is, but with mixed breed dogs size can often be varied even within the same litter, as can appearance.

Dog breed genetic tests put to the test - VIN
 
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My dog is not a Pomeranian. She's a fifteen pound medium-haired black dog with a long snout and large ears.
I know you're disappointed but that sounds like a Pomeranian mix to me. Pomeranians are in the spitz family as as Schipperkes (I can never spell it) and they look a lot alike. Once at a shelter I worked at my boss insisted on listing what I knew to be a purebred black Pomeranian as a Schipperke to make him sound exotic and get him adopted. Not only that but Poms are much much more common. When dogs are mixed together they can take traits from both. It's possible your dog has Pom with hound or other breeds with short hair which is why he has medium hair. Also looking at her, I definitely see that spitz-y influence. Also look at all these ridiculous "Pomsky" dogs that are becoming popular. They are half Pomeranian and many look somewhat like your dog.

That being said yeah these tests can be wrong.
 

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It is very, very common for shelters to list dogs a less common breeds/mixes of those breeds, or more common/well liked breeds or mixes when they are obviously (to the knolwedgable eye) something else, in order to make the dog more desirable/"adoptable".

For example, I see a lot of obvious bully breed mixes listed as "Lab mixes" or "Great Dane/Lab" mixes, and have seen Schipperke used as a stand-in for what looks to be a Pomeranian mix.

My guess- she is mostly Pomeranian with some kind of short-coated multi-mutt mixed in, or several short coated breeds or mutts. There are a lot of more back-yard-breeder/ hobby-breeder type Poms that tend to have longer muzzles, long legs, be larger, and often have less of a coat than the show bred Poms. There is now a very wide range in appearance in what is really a single breed, but being bred with different things in mind, and even show breeders will often throw out-of-standard size or coat length dogs.

I will say, I have seen quite a few "Pomsky" (supposedly pomeranian/husky) mixes that look a great deal like your dog. My guess for the other half would be some kind of leggy, short coated terrier like a Rat Terrier, or maybe even something like a Yorkie or something like a Cairn, just as likely, a multi generational mix with a great many random breeds in its background.
 

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I completed a wisdom panel for my hound mix a few years ago. My roommate at the time had a pure bred Australian Shepherd. My results came back as 63% Bloodhound and 30% Australian Shepherd and the last 7% was "unknown". My dog looks absolutely nothing like an Australian Shepherd and carries no traits of one. My dog and this Aussie would wrestle all day every day biting and playing with each other so my guess is some of the Aussie's DNA ended up inevitably in my dogs mouth (you scrape the gums of the dog with a q-tip like object to do the test) and that's why the test came out the way it did.
 

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If someone asks about DNA testing a dog, I usually tell them to take the results with a grain of salt. I did it with two of my pets and am satisfied with the results... Although Nata's had me somewhat skeptical about the in the mix part. But I am happy with the results.

Its just nice to know what 'could' be mixed in with your dog. That's my take on it. Would I do it again? Yes, if i have some money to spare, and had an unknown mixed breed, yes.
 

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But the fact that they listed her great-grandparents, grandparents, and one side of her parents as pure Pomeranian with only one Pom-mix in the other parents left me completely baffled. And the fact that they detected Cesky Terrier and Plott Hound in her and said her predicted adult weight was 6 lbs? I was a little confused, ha ha. Here's some pictures of her.
You are confused because DNA tests are a crock of ______.
We can't find out what race humans are with a DNA test, only if they are related through DNA; so I highly doubt we can with dogs. I can't understand why people keep doing these "wisdom panels"...I see no purpose and see it as a money scam. Sorry to be so blunt, I don't mean to be rude.
 

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Have you tried Embark?

I did Wisdom Panel a few years ago on one of my dogs and wasn't too impressed with the results. Allegedly they've improved their algorithm and expanded their database but I'm reluctant to spend more money on them.
 

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agreeing w/ all those who point out that these DNA tests are for the most part nothing but a load of crap.
people have "tested" them, by sending in DNA of dogs who's breeding was definitively KNOWN beforehand, and gotten results back that did not at all match the dog in question's known background.
I wouldn't put too much stock in your Wisdom Panel results.
however, I also would not put much stock in what the shelter told you about your dog's breeding. as was mentioned by an earlier poster, it is very common for shelters to advertise mundane mutts or even purebred dogs of breeds perceived less "interesting" as some mix of rare and exotic breeds that in reality would be truly exceedingly unlikely for the dog to have in its genetic background.
 

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Unless they actually saw the parent that was Schipperke, I would not look at your dog and think she had any in her. When they are a mix of breeds, the shelters can only guess what breeds they think they are and quite often they are not good at guessing.

I don't think there is much use in complaining as for all you know, they could be right on the results of the test.
 

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I have a Pom x Shih Tzu mix that is currently sitting at about 12 lbs. His colouring is where the Pom is most visible, he doesn't have the smushy face of a shih tzu, but not as pointed as a Pom. He's leggy and lean in the body which makes him a bit taller than most of the Shih Tzu's he's been around but doesn't have the same body mass. His fur is also a weird mix, grows like a Shih Tzu and he doesn't shed but the texture of it is very Pom like. It's a total crap shoot what traits of which breed your pup would have gotten.

The picture is him next to his Shih Tzu pal after a hair cut.
 

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You are confused because DNA tests are a crock of ______.
We can't find out what race humans are with a DNA test, only if they are related through DNA; so I highly doubt we can with dogs. I can't understand why people keep doing these "wisdom panels"...I see no purpose and see it as a money scam. Sorry to be so blunt, I don't mean to be rude.
The more I read about people getting questionable results with these tests, the more I wonder about the financial wisdom (ha!) of ordering one for my [alleged] lab/pit mix. Instead, I'll be thankful to have a great dog and invest the money in treats and toys for her.

And since we're sharing pics(!)...
 

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The more I read about people getting questionable results with these tests, the more I wonder about the financial wisdom (ha!) of ordering one for my [alleged] lab/pit mix. Instead, I'll be thankful to have a great dog and invest the money in treats and toys for her.

And since we're sharing pics(!)...
aw she is way too cute! she reminds me so much of a dog (also a purported lab/pit mix) that belonged to a family I nannied for years ago, who was just the sweetest girl and so good w/ their kids.

it would be really neat if there was actually a highly accurate (or even reasonably accurate hah) commercially available DNA test to determine a dog's breeding. I would love to test my girl (in my profile picture), who I tout as a German Shorthaired Pointer/Pit/general muttly mix. when I acquired her as a puppy (for free out of the backseat of truck in a Walmart parking lot!), the owner of the bitch who whelped the litter being given away told me "well...let's see...her mom is like kind of a Pit/Hound type mix, and the dad was like a Pit/Boxer/Hound/Pointer kinda mix...there's probably some other stuff in there somewhere too..." :rolleyes: so honestly -- who really knows??

she definitely looks very strongly like a GSP/Pit mix, essentially like a pretty even 50/50 look. but I KNOW that there's definitely more to her breeding than that! I'd love to be able to know what all it is. maybe some day in the future when the technology is better or something...

my dog was born to a litter of 6, and she was the runt. 4 of the puppies looked very similar, 3 being an identical sort of dark fawnish colour w/ some white, the 4th a somewhat darker, deeper reddish brown colour (sort of light liver?) w/ a bit of white, and then these 2 -- the black & white puppies covered in tick marks.
the brownish puppies all looked much more Pit/Boxer-ish -- they had shorter, wider noses and steeper foreheads; they were notably stockier and had a heavier build. the 2 black & white ticked puppies, my little girl the most so, were much sleeker -- longer, narrower snouts w/ more sloping foreheads; a lighter, longer body w/ a finer build and longer legs; and longer tails too.
it's amazing how the same parental genetics can produce so many different traits!
...though I do know that a bitch can have a litter of multiple puppies sired by my than one dog born all at the same time. perhaps that's what happened there? but I figure probably just as likely not. who knows? I'd love to! but I would waste my money on one those crapshoot DNA tests that are available these days.
 

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When I got my WP results for my dog (pictured in my avi) he came back with a 37.5% mixed breed result. I called for more information and they told me that the mixed breed result means that certain traits of types of dogs (i.e. hound, sporting, etc) were detected but they could not match it to a specific breed with enough significance to confidently determine it to be present. For example, my 60lb mutt was detected to have both Rat Terrier and Pembroke Welsh Corgi in him somewhere, but they cautioned me to understand that it doesn't necessarily mean that he has those two breeds in his lineage. He could just have DNA traits that are similar to them. Somewhat of a false positive, if you will. I'd take WP results with a grain of salt, to be honest. It wouldn't be worth it to call and demand a refund.
 
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