[Mourningsun]

Someone said that i am wrong that i hate breeders and this was my answer to the person Are you agree with me ?
This is what i wrote to her
''i apologize if we think differently I am advocating dogs on facebook for 3 years . I saw so many beaten , tortured, left on a backyard not fed dogs and puppies that i will never change my opinion . There are million dogs put down every day. The way they say euthanized them ''humanly'' is not true I was volunteering with the shelter that put down daily 20 -40 dogs All dog are s scared and feel that something going to happened to them next 10 min they are petrified .
We have right now at the shelter pure breed boxers pups from the breeder who was neglecting them, i have coworker at work she is about 60 y old She was breeding before Then now years latter she took a dog for herself from the breeder Then she didn't want to crate it because the pup was crying and finally she came to me and told me she is tired and want to take the dog to the pond Now since i am volunteering at the shelter we just recently got Mama dog with 3 pups that someone found on someones yard all bones and skin So forgive me but i will never support any breeder because so many dogs dying every day and there is not enough people to help And i was yesterday on line until 3 am trying to find place for the beautiful dog that was put down today i will never understand why someone will pay a breeder when you can pay a rescue who safe dogs from death There are a few rescue who transport dogs form Afganistan , Greece , Thailand all over the world to safe them . There is Soi Dog foundation that need support they rescue dogs from meat trade Why would i buy from breeder. The dogs that Soi dog foundation helps are all tortured This site will banned me if i will post you a video what Thiland, Korea and china doing to dog They put them on fire while they alive They beat them on head, they boil them alive I did saw video of it They also clean the stomach before they kill them And all those dogs could be safe if people would rescue them And a lot of organizations will transport those to you but a lot people too busy buying dog from the breeder Sorry i will never understand or support I wish i can show you video and i wish you will stand there where i was standing when they put 45 dogs down at the shelter And guess what people who put them down not always nice because they want done job fast They very mean to those dogs And you know what i will not understand you even more if you still support breeding Your dog is pure breed but also can be found at the rescue because there are dogs like your breed some times end up at the shelter or rescue PLEASE DON'T BUY -ADOPT SAVE LIFE''

 

[Jeru]

I actually think both are good. I am all for adopting but I also do understand when someone wants a well bred dog with no horrible past.

I do realize that people can dogs from a shelter without a horrible past but in general dogs from a shelter are less predictable. Also you are more likely to get a stable dog from a breeder rather than a shelter. Some people need this. Not everyone has the time to rebuild an unstable dog. Their health problems may be also very unpredictable as well.

I respect people who get from breeders and I understand it totally. I respect anyone who gets from a shelter as well because I understand they are giving a dog a home who needs one.

People who are into shows and agility need a well bred dog also.

Conclusion is simply: A shelter dog though they have big hearts and can make really good family pets is not ideal for everyone.


I really like shelter dogs and I may never buy from a breeder but I know why people buy from breeders, and it makes perfect sense. No need to bash them for it.

On a final note: do you think the dogs you described belong in a family with lots of kids and noises that may overwhelm the dog? The dogs you described need someone who can commit to turning the dogs life around. Not everyone is capable of that.

 

[DriveDog]

One should get their dog where they choose and have no ill feelings about their choice.

I've had numerous dogs over my life and all of them came from breeders and not one of them ever ended up in a shelter. So, IMHO the solution to reducing the numbers of dogs going to shelters and being killed rests solely on the human. I have great respect for those who rescue dogs and I also have great respect for those who get their dogs from breeders BUT this respect I hold is completely based on how they treat their dogs and take the responsibility very seriously. Regardless, of where the dog comes from, the bottom line is that the dog is provided with a quality of life and commitment which never results in the dog going to a shelter.

SO, it's not so much "where" you get your dog from, it's all about the discipline, effort, and care one provides for their dog which ultimately makes the difference.

 

[Aspen726]

As long as people are buying from responsible breeders, I have no issue with it. My current dog is from a rescue. My next dog may be from a breeder. There's nothing wrong with that as long as we are not supporting BYB and puppy mills.

 

[Esand]

In the past I've always had shelter dogs, currently I have one adopted dog and one purchased dog.

If I could have gotten the same dog I purchased for free I would have happily adopted. Unfortunately I don't think that's that easy to do.

why someone will pay a breeder when you can pay a rescue who safe dogs from death

As for this argument you could say that about almost anything. Why do I buy myself expensive food which provides far more than the minimum sustenance I require when I could buy 500 PB&J sandwiches, eat 1 and give 499 to starving people? Or if I'm willing to give a subway busker money why don't I give it to the impoverished street kids?

You could also ask, why would anybody have kids when there are so many children who would benefit immensely from adoption.

Even though I understand the problem, I personally am not going to be able to fix it with a small action.

I mean, lets say I adopt a shelter dog, sure I may save his life. Or maybe someone else would have adopted him (people generally go for the same dogs at shelters) but why is his life worth more than the millions I didn't save and am I really helping them? I don't think so.

On the other hand,

I am more than happy to donate money and/or my time to shelters. I support neutering of strays etc. Just like I support taxes that provide welfare to the poor and starving as well as orphanages. These are things that can help the larger problem.

 

[Larkspur]

I did not say you were wrong. I specifically said that saying that you hate all breeders is UNFAIR to reputable ones. That, in no way, said that you were wrong. Thank you for slamming me. I appreciate it.

 

[Shandula]

You can hate breeders all you want, you're entitled to your opinion. However, your rational is a slippery slope as @Esand mentioned. Why did my husband and I buy a new car where there are so many used cars available? Why are we looking to buy a house when we could rent one and pay someone's mortgage?

Both of my dogs are from breeders, and I have zero regrets. They are well-bred, healthy, and happy confident dogs, free of genetic issues. As a result, I spend less money on vet bills, and can spend the majority of my money on training classes, optimal food, and interactive toys. This will further ensure that my dogs live long, happy, lives with me, and are never forced to go live in a shelter. I support my local humane society, and I support breed rescues, maybe not through adoption of an animal, but certainly financially and through donations of food and toys. I would love to look into a rescue in the future, but for my first dogs, I wanted a clean slate to improve my confidence in training.

Irresponsible breeders and irresponsible owners are to blame for the rampant volumes of dogs in shelters, not responsible breeders and dedicated owners. To imply my dogs don't deserve a great life because I did my research is insulting.

 

[jclark343]

I have 1 rescue dog (found her on the streets) and one that I got from a breeder. I do not see a problem with responsible breeding. In fact I see more of a problem with people like you who are so narrow minded that they don't see that there are benefits to breeding. This 'Adopt don't Shop' mentality is harmful to responsible breeders and the honesty of the breeds. I bought because I wanted a dog that has good genetics (parents are OFA tested for hips and eyes) and that would have drive (father has won in the confirmation ring, as well as the agility ring) as my aussie is going to be my next agility dog.

I think, as in many things in life, extremes are not beneficial to anyone. Persecuting people who breed dogs because 'so many are dying in shelters' does more harm then good, as does the people who want to pop out purebred litter after purebred litter because it makes them more money. A nice even medium is nice.

 

[PoppyKenna]

Like the others, I don't condemn all breeders.

I was raised with dogs that were either breeder dogs or rescues. The dog I have now that is "mine" (I still live at home and have two other family dogs there) is a rescue that was pulled from a hoarding situation - much like you described, the woman was apparently breeding "mini Cockers" and there was a lot of neglect.

I LOVE my little guy. He's as loyal as they come, very sweet, and very bright. But oh man, does he have issues. He's had major behavioral challenges from 8 weeks old. We're working with a behaviorist to see if we can get him to the point where he can happily move with me in about a year, if not he'll remain with my (willing) parents, more for his sake than mine honestly.

My next dog will be from a breeder. Partially because I want a more stable dog in general and partially because the breed I want is impossible to find in shelters anyway. I don't regret that decision; I do and will continue to support shelters in the future. In fact, I'd really love to foster as I think that makes a tremendous impact as well.

I do know how you feel. It can be very hard to watch the ugly side of humanity and want to save all these creatures, all the while thinking people don't care. But good breeders and owners aren't the problem - bad breeders and irresponsible owners are.

Besides, what would happen if we didn't have breeders? Whole breeds would disappear. That's a sad thought too.

 

[Rain]

Sorry I can't support you in hating all breeders of dogs, and I say that as a person who has never owned a pure bred dog or purchased from a breeder. Shadow was a terrier mix that I got from a pet store after convincing myself (stupidly) that there was nothing wrong with buying him since I was not buying a pure breed puppy therefore not supporting puppy mills. Jersey was a Chow Chow mix that I rescued after her owner was not going to keep her but would keep two of the puppies that he let her produce. Zody is a Chi x Dach that was given to me by a friend. No matter where I got my dogs from they all lived out their life, or is living out his life, with me. My dogs will not end up at the shelter unless some type of drastic, unforeseen, circumstance comes up and the decision is taken from my hands, but I will attempt to move heaven and earth to keep my dog.

If I did fall in love with a breed I'd buy the dog from a reputable breeder. What you need to realize is that not all breeders are alike, there are poor breeders, and there are good ones, the good ones are the ones who will ALWAYS take the dog back no matter how many years have passed and no matter the reason the owner cannot keep the dog, They always consider the dog their dog, the dog may spend it's life living with it's owners but that breeder will always say, "That's my dog". That breeder is willing to step up and take responsibility for a dog that he or she allowed to be born. That breeder is not responsible for the dogs that are in the shelter any more then a human who responsibly has a child is responsible for the millions of homeless, starving, children in the world.

The ones who are responsible for the pet over population are those who own unaltered dogs and let them breed at will, not planning the litter, not caring who gets the puppies, not accepting responsibility for the dogs that they produce. Owners who get puppies or dogs at a whim and then when they are no longer cute puppies, or develop behavior problems, they send the dog to the shelter and turn around and get a new one, are also responsible. The puppy mills who mass produce puppies are another huge part of the problem. Another part of the problem is people who purchase dogs without doing any research, they get them from bybers, puppy mills, and pay a fortune for a puppy who's breeder probably does not care if they turn around and sell the puppy to a research lab, or give the puppy to a high kill shelter a few months down the road.

Please stop blaming the good breeders for the problem.

 

[Larkspur]

@Mourningsun - Btw, I don't have a dog. You assume a whole lot.

 

[Redwood]

If you have a good breeder, and want a specific breed's general temperament, job skills, and appearance, go to a breeder.

Frankly, many shelter dogs who need homes ARE 'damaged goods'. It's not their fault they're there, but oftentimes they will have behavior problems of one stripe or another that led to them being surrendered to begin with and while getting a breeder's dog isn't a guarantee of no problems BY FAR, if you don't have the time to work through a traumatized dog's issues, shelter/pound adopting may not be for you. Many shelter dogs are good normal healthy dogs. The vast majority though have issues of one type or another, and unprepared people adopting out of pity may wind up rehoming the dog fast because they can't handle it. I won't adopt a dog out of feeling sorry for it. Guilting people about the dog that suits them best doesn't get more dogs rescued.

Not all breeders are bad. Not all rescues are good. Do research on where you intend to get your dog from. Do research on your intended dog, no matter where it's from.

Well bred dogs from good breeders almost never wind up in shelters, they're not adding to the pet overpopulation problem. We own two pound rescued dogs right now, and BOTH had their issues. Frankly I don't enjoy spending months or perhaps the dog's entire lifetime undoing someone else's mistakes with a pet. I love my dogs but I would not do it again.

I will be buying my next dog, from a breeder that has a two year waiting list at minimum and a fantastic record of producing healthy companion animals of the personality, coat type, intelligence, trainability and size I desire.

With those exact requirements, fishing around at pounds and shelters for the same dog would be a needle in a haystack. Meanwhile I'm STILL not adopting every sad-eyed hound in a kennel, because I have specific wants beyond just saving a dog.

 

[timber]

Frankly, many shelter dogs who need homes ARE 'damaged goods'. It's not their fault they're there, but oftentimes they will have behavior problems of one stripe or another that led to them being surrendered to begin with and while getting a breeder's dog isn't a guarantee of no problems BY FAR, if you don't have the time to work through a traumatized dog's issues, shelter/pound adopting may not be for you. Many shelter dogs are good normal healthy dogs. The vast majority though have issues of one type or another, and unprepared people adopting out of pity may wind up rehoming the dog fast because they can't handle it. I won't adopt a dog out of feeling sorry for it. Guilting people about the dog that suits them best doesn't get more dogs rescued.

Saying that the majority of dogs in shelters are "damaged goods" is not correct to say either. I guess it can depend on what shelter/area, but shelter dogs are not automatically traumatized and damaged. There are shelter dogs that are just fine with no issues, just the same as there are ones with issues. Saying most do is the same as the OP saying that all breeders are bad. Too generalized a statement to be even remotely correct.

I guess if I had to see things like the OP has, I might become frustrated with everything too. Thankfully I haven't, but can see both sides in one way or another.

 

[cos]

Our family has had a ton of rescues step through our doors. Cosmo was the first dog I had to myself and I can tell you that it was a huge relief to know that my dog was tested for all genetic health testing and I didn't have to worry about going through the expensive and sad procedures for something like the hip displaysia a former shelter dog had due to poor breeding - which ended up preventing him from even walking and his quality of life was so low at such a young age that we had to put him down.

That was awful, and knowing someone put in the love time and care necessary to present me with a dog I know will be with me for me to love for a long time was incredibly relieving.

It's not that I hate mangey mongrels of the shelters. It's that for my first dog, I wanted to know where he came from, how he was cared for, the testing he received, and know that I wouldn't be taking home a fatally sick puppy.

My grandmothers friend just rescued a puppy from Facebook this last week or so. Upon bringing the puppy home she realized that something was wrong. The puppy was lethargic and was shaking. She kept the puppy in a warm blanket and hand fed the puppy through the night. When she went to check on the puppy the next morning she was dead.

Two out of three of her other dogs now have parvo. One of them she is scheduling to have put down.

She rescued a sad little puppy on Facebook and the consequences were brutally fatal.

 

[Laurelin]

I think adopting dogs from shelters or rescues that fit your life is a great way to get a dog. There are great dogs out there wanting homes through no fault of their own. I really think it is a good thing to spread the word that adult dogs can be great pets and can bond just as well as puppies and that not all shelter dogs are broken or have a lot of issues. I have a fantastic shelter dog that is pretty and cute and just an all around nice dog.

I also think promoting finding a good breeder and buying a dog that fits your life is a good thing. Good breeders do their best to breed nice, healthy, stable dogs. Researching what breed would fit your lifestyle and going with a breeder that cares about their dogs and follows up with them will help keep dogs out of shelters and create happy lifelong placements for dogs.

 

[Redwood]

Saying that the majority of dogs in shelters are "damaged goods" is not correct to say either. I guess it can depend on what shelter/area, but shelter dogs are not automatically traumatized and damaged. There are shelter dogs that are just fine with no issues, just the same as there are ones with issues. Saying most do is the same as the OP saying that all breeders are bad. Too generalized a statement to be even remotely correct.

I guess if I had to see things like the OP has, I might become frustrated with everything too. Thankfully I haven't, but can see both sides in one way or another.

I volunteer actively at a shelter and have for quite a while. The vast majority of the dogs that come in have behavior problems, from moderate to severe.

I DID say not all dogs are damaged goods but bluntly most of them are. Some it's just mild RG. Some it's severe and debilitating trauma. Most are inbetween. For every sweet rottie we get that's super easy to work with and trainable, there's at least FIVE that have serious issues. This doesn't make them bad dogs, it just means that a shelter rescue is NOT going to be for everyone, especially since most people strolling into a pound looking for a pet don't even ask if the dog has behavioral issues, they just see the wagging tail and licking tongue and go 'oh this is the one for us!'

And then they come back in a few days or a few weeks with the dog.

 

[Laurelin]

People who are into shows and agility need a well bred dog also.

Not exactly true, there are a lot of rescue dogs that do and can do performance sports. There are actually some really really good resources out there for people interested in adopting a sport dog. Especially now with facebook. A lot of disc folk pull shelter dogs and evaluate them for drive for various sports. Some you can even find with x-rays, working/sport videos. It's an option out there that is often overlooked.

There is no guarantee with purebred, well bred dogs or rescues. I am not saying there is no benefit to purebreds. My next dog will be a purebred from a breeder. But there are no guarantees and I feel like sometimes people overstate the 'certainty' you have with purebreds. Mia is purebred from a well known breeder with relatives competing at high levels all over the place and Mia has bum knees and a collapsed trachea. You can stack your odds but it's still 'by the grace of God go I' to an extent.

My shelter dog is young but so far healthy. He's incredibly athletic and seems robust but you just don't really know health until the end. Living beings, anything can happen.

 

[Laurelin]

Honestly I have not seen more behavioral problems in shelter dogs/mutts than I have purebreds. I also have spent years working in a shelter and I just haven't seen it at all. Most dogs are going to have some sort of less than desirable behavior. Doesn't really matter where they come from. Most dogs are for the most part ok though. There aren't too many truly unstable dogs out there.

(And honestly what is seen as an 'issue' in one breed or situation is not in another breed...)

 

[Redwood]

Honestly I have not seen more behavioral problems in shelter dogs/mutts than I have purebreds. I also have spent years working in a shelter and I just haven't seen it at all. Most dogs are going to have some sort of less than desirable behavior. Doesn't really matter where they come from.

(And honestly what is seen as an 'issue' in one breed or situation is not in another breed...)

I have suspected this is thanks to a combination of badly bred dogs and people who just don't know how to raise them, like encourage a 'cute behavior' in a puppy, like jumping up, that suddenly isn't so cute when their 60 pound dog knocks over their 5 year old jumping up. Suddenly their overexcitable yearling to two year old dog is DANGEROUS and has to be gotten rid of.

I don't usually make it a breed issue but that /specific/ example I see all the time in adolescent pit bulls. All the time. Teaching them a little restraint and patience and NOT jumping up generally rapidly makes them easily rehomeable.

 

[Larkspur]

@Laurelin
It honestly depends on where you are and the people who own dogs. In my area, you'd probably see a lot of ill-behaved and untrained dogs of all origins. You would probably also see a disproportionate number of "pit bulls" (read: AmStaff mixes and bully mutts) and other "tough" breeds with severe aggression problems due to (1) lack of training in general and (2) whatever training they do get is to encourage that behavior. A lot of people around here expect a dog to be 100% perfect with no training or work on their part... then when the dog's behavioral issues escalate, dump them into a shelter.

On the other subject, depending on if you have specific requirements that need to be met a shelter is much more of a gamble to find your ideal dog than going to a breeder you know produces what you're looking for. A lot of shelter dogs do well, but if I was looking for a dog to do perfect cattle work I probably would go to a working cattle dog breeder rather than turn shelters over and go through dog after dog that don't fit my needs. To me, that is also unfair to those dogs.