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Discussion Starter #1
This has been a big issue by me recently and I'm wondering what everyone else thinks.

For those of you that aren't really into the puppy mill/breeding industry they often have auctions of breeding dogs to be sold to the highest bidder. They're typically dogs that come from a breeder who is closing shop, reducing dogs, or they are no longer wanted for some reason--usually health or age.

It's become really common now for rescues to go to these auctions to "rescue" the dogs. I put rescue in quotes because while they legit care for the dogs and find them homes, they are purchasing them from the milllers.

I personally am completely and totally against giving puppy millers one cent for any of the dogs. Even if it saves that one dog's life, that money goes into the miller's pocket and goes to buy more dogs or fuel the industry more. I might be cold but I'd rather see all those dogs stay in the mills or die rather than pay the millers. Last week a now infamous puppy store and mill owner in my state sold off 450 of his breeding dogs at a huge auction because the state has had it with his cruel and dishonest practices and most of his stores are closing. I've seen about half a dozen rescues posting loads of photos and stories about all the dogs they've rescued, along with begging for loads of cash because of the cost of the dogs and of course medical bills. I've seen some rescues saying they dropped over $10k on these dogs! So effectively lots of rescues have given a puppy miller probably $30-50,000. This really upsets me and I don't know how they can't see that they are now no different from people who buy the puppies at the store.

Does anyone else have a really strong opinion on this? What do you think/feel about it?
 

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Doesn't seem like a black and white issue to me. You know the dogs at the auctions aren't going to be sold into good situations, unlike a lot of their puppies at pet stores- so not as easy to walk away.

If someone really wants to rescue those dogs they should just break in and steal them. Or get HSUS or ASPCA involved to close down those puppy mills.
 

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People go to horse auctions too and rescue horses so they don't get sold off for meat.
Yes, you are right, it amounts to buying that dog if you pay money at auction and encourages the futures of the millers.
However, if you are familiar with US tax law, deductions might be possible for business losses as well as expenses, so not buying an animal may have less of an impact than you think.
I think each person has a right to decide what to do under those circumstances, and I would not hold it against any person or group acquiring such an animal. There are other ways to fight the mills.
If someone really wants to rescue those dogs they should just break in and steal them.
I don't think this is a good idea. Monitoring technology is much better than it used to be, both in terms of cameras and the like, and chipping dogs (chippers are available cheaply to anyone wanting to chip). So the rescue or person involved may well get criminal sanctions and because chip technology makes the identification of stolen animals more likely, the dog may go back to the mill. And anyone subsequently getting a stolen dog, if doing so with knowledge of the theft may also have criminal sanctions applied, and if doing so without knowledge, may develop a relationship with the dog which can be interrupted if the dog is identified, as transfer of stolen property does not pass title to the property.
 

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I kind of think of it a double edged sward so to speak. The dogs are living in bad conditions and probably wont be going to many better places but in buying them your giving money to byb's and millers.
I do agree that they shouldn't be giving money to millers. However I also don't think its fair to leave the dogs behind and not give them the chance of a better life because you would be giving money to the millers. Especially since they never asked to put in or raised in that situation. Anyways what I'm getting at is I think rescues need to go about it a different way.
Like revolutionrocknroll said its not really a black and white situation. For now I feel like the available processes that rescues can take to get the dogs out of situations like that, they kind of have to pick the lesser of the two evils. In this case leave the dogs to unknown fate to avoid giving millers money or reascue the dogs to give them a better life and but have to give millers money.
I think what it really comes down to is we need better laws regulating puppy mills and byb's for rescue to be able to take the dogs out without feeding the system, and more effectively shut them down.
 
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I don't think this is a good idea. Monitoring technology is much better than it used to be, both in terms of cameras and the like, and chipping dogs (chippers are available cheaply to anyone wanting to chip). So the rescue or person involved may well get criminal sanctions and because chip technology makes the identification of stolen animals more likely, the dog may go back to the mill. And anyone subsequently getting a stolen dog, if doing so with knowledge of the theft may also have criminal sanctions applied, and if doing so without knowledge, may develop a relationship with the dog which can be interrupted if the dog is identified, as transfer of stolen property does not pass title to the property.
Didn't mean to say it was a good idea- just saying, if you're paying the puppy millers then that's not really helping the situation.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
If someone really wants to rescue those dogs they should just break in and steal them. Or get HSUS or ASPCA involved to close down those puppy mills.
That's something I see people say a lot, getting welfare organizations in to close them down. But the problem is the stuff they do is completely and totally legal. It's kind of like someone who treats their kid terribly but it legally doesn't qualify as criminal abuse or neglect so even if you call CPS nothing will happen.

I can definitely see how and why people do things like this, but aside from the principle of it, I'm more troubled by just how much cash these rescues will drop on the dogs. I mean it's one thing if you pay 10, 20, even 50 for a dog to save them. But I mean they're dropping over 1000 or MORE on just one dog. That in itself troubles me with the capacity it has to fuel the industry. Meh.
 

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Unless they are paying rock bottom prices at the auction, and by that I mean no more then $25, then I don't see how it's rescuing. Anyway you look at it they are buying the dog, but if they are paying anything other then an extremely low price then the puppy miller is making money and will keep on producing dogs. Ideally I'd love to see the dogs truly rescued and no money change hands.

You're right so long as the puppy mill is following the USDA's guidelines and the dogs are receiving the minimum amount of care outlined in those guidelines there's nothing that can be done to them. Unfortunately the care in the guidelines is deplorable. Puppy mills need to be fought at the federal level, and the laws need to change, in order for the abuse to stop.
 

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I think I know exactly what store you're talking about. I'm in NJ too. Unless, there's multiple places this is happening now.

I knew that a lot of those dogs went to shelters, but I had no idea they BOUGHT the dogs from that guy.

Now I wonder if the guy "gave up" his "business", because he realized he could make a lot of money fast selling to shelters than he would trying to keep his store afloat.

That makes me mad.
 

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I think I know exactly what store you're talking about. I'm in NJ too. Unless, there's multiple places this is happening now.

I knew that a lot of those dogs went to shelters, but I had no idea they BOUGHT the dogs from that guy.

Now I wonder if the guy "gave up" his "business", because he realized he could make a lot of money fast selling to shelters than he would trying to keep his store afloat.

That makes me mad.
Just Pups, Vincent Losacco is who I'm talking about. SOME were just given to the rescues, but a lot were purchased. But I would say about 2/3 of the dogs were purchased by other puppy millers, mostly Amish of course.

And oh, don't be mistaken, he hasn't totally given up his business. He just got a broker license actually. There's still one more store and I'm actively working to get it closed. If you want to get involved PM me, there's a lot going on in NJ to fight puppy stores and puppy mills.
 
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