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Are you in favor or against animal breeding?

  • In favor

    Votes: 14 93.3%
  • Against

    Votes: 1 6.7%
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Today, many people opt to buy dogs at exuberant prices from breeders. Before you decide whether or not to support the business of a breeder, you should know the facts of dog breeding.

1. Dog breeding inhibits evolution. Natural selection works to improve a a species' ability to survive. Selective breeding, however, is artificial. It does not work in conjunction with the what helps the species survive. A breeder may choose to breed traits that are more physically attractive rather than traits that are useful to the species. This is commonly seen in show dogs.

2. Dog breeding takes away business from animal shelters. Three to four million dogs are put down every year in shelters because they can not find a home. In America, there are 45 cats and dogs born for every person that is born, so clearly overpopulation among household pets is a problem even without the help of breeders.

3. Genetic disorders can be caused by inbreeding. It is no secret that breeders mate dogs of the same bloodlines. In some breeds it is almost impossible to find two purebreds that are not related. Like humans, the mating of two dogs within the same family increases the risk of offspring with a genetic disorder. For example, dalmatians are at a high risk of heart disease.

4. Dogs are only bred because humans have created a myth that purebreds are superior's a to mixed dogs. This is blatantly false health-wise. Because purebreds often have health issues (like genetic disorders previously mentioned), they have a shorter life expectancy.

5. When dogs are bred, behavior is not take into consideration. Dogs are bred primarily for dog shows, and behavior factors into only 3% of the final score of the judges.

What do you have to say on this topic? Are you in favor or against animal breeding? Why? Add to the conversation!

Sources:
Breeders | The Pet Trade | Companion Animals | The Issues | PETA

Why Breeding Dogs is a Problem, Even if the Breeder is ‘Reputable’ | One Green Planet

10 Terrifying Facts About Professional Dog Breeding - Listverse

Dogs That Changed The World | Selective Breeding Problems | Nature | PBS
 

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so we should let the breeding being done by irresponsible people that don't do health testing and genetic screening or (god forbid) working abilities and/or let dogs run around unattended so they can breed? just let neighbour's newfoundland hop on auntie's whippet and wait for the best?

well great if you want a dog for more than just a pet. :/
I'm sorry to say this, but a chihuahua/akita or rottweiler/dackel mix can't do the same job than as a dog bred for a more specialised job like herding or a specific types of nosework, protection or hunting for example. To do the job you've got to do a certain amount genetical selection for health and working ability. "purebred" or not.:eyeroll:
 

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Today, many people opt to buy dogs at exuberant prices from breeders.
I didn't know a price could be exuberant. :rofl:

4. Dogs are only bred because humans have created a myth that purebreds are superior's a to mixed dogs. This is blatantly false health-wise. Because purebreds often have health issues (like genetic disorders previously mentioned), they have a shorter life expectancy.
This is not a black-and-white issue. There is absolutely no truth to the statement that mixed breeds are always healthier than purebreds, or vice versa. There are many healthy mixed breed dogs, and there are many healthy purebred dogs. Responsible and ethical breeders do extensive health testing and only breed healthy dogs. Their goal is to improve the breed, and their dogs come with certain health guarantees.

So, do you want all dog breeding to cease? Under what circumstances would you be ok with dogs being purposely bred? Yes, there are way too many irresponsible breeders out there, but responsible and ethical breeders are a necessity.
 

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I'm fine with dog breeding, infact I have two dogs from breeders. One from a great breeder and one from a not so great breeder (well I really wouldn't call them a breeder) because I didn't know any better. I really don't have a problem with it if people are responsible. The reason why dogs are in shelters in most cases (I know sometimes its because people are unable to care for dogs or because of extenuating circumstances) is because people are irisponsible and or don't care about the dog. Those reasons are also why there is a pet overpopulation.
I would gladly adopt a shelter dog, almost did to but the ones we met weren't the right fit for us.
Any good breeder is not going to inbreed for generations apon generations and wont breed dogs with health defects, they get their dogs health tested. Any good breeder will also take temperament into account, even breeders who breed for show. Even if it doesn't count highly in the show ring doesn't mean the don't care about temperament.
Slective breeding is part of evolution, its how humans got dogs from wolves. Yes it has its problems, (correct me if I'm wrong) but a lot of it is health. Dogs are domestic animals they don't need to worry about surviving in the same way wolves or other wild animals do. While dog breeding is largely controlled through selective breeding as with all living things natural selection still has a part.
 

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First of all, I need to tell you that you are not talking to people who don't know anything about dogs, breeding, canine genetics, animal welfare/the shelter and rescue world, etc. Many of the people here are not only dog lovers, but animal professionals and/or been heavily involved with dogs for MANY years. I myself have worked (and currently work) in a shelter, I'm a pet sitter/dog walker and certified dog trainer. All of the regulars on this site, know this, and more. I would like to address several of your points. First of all, you can't make breeding a completely black and white issue. To say someone is simply "for" or "against" breeding is just...not right. If I had to click an answer I would say I am FOR breeding, but I have been spending every day for over two months trying to pass legislation in my state that ban puppy stores. You can't compare a puppy miller with 300+ matted, hungry dogs in sh*t filled crates to someone who health tests, socializes, loves, grooms, and trains their dogs for a purpose like say, police work, therapy work, or even recreational canine sports.

1. You seem to be under the belief that all dog breeders ONLY breed for shows and ONLY breed for looks. That's not true. At all. Any breeder that can legit call themselves reputable health test their dogs, avoid inbreeding, and breed the dos for a purpose. Most of the truly good breeders these days aren't even breeding for the show ring, but rather for another purpose that enables the dog to use his or her inherent traits for a job or purpose that will be helpful to humans.

2. This is only partially true. Someone who impulsively goes to a puppy store and picks the cutest puppy the see is someone who would be better off going to a shelter. Someone who just wants a dog for no particular purpose (other than a companion), is very often someone who can and should go to a shelter. But plenty of people desire dogs for a specific purpose, because they need a dog of a certain size or coat type or just because they want a particular breed. I hope to one day own a Leonberger. They're rare, so I have virtually no chance of finding one in a rescue. If I want a Leonberger, which I will not find in a shelter, I'm not just going to pick a random shelter dog in their place. Therefore, my getting a Leonberger in the future is not going to take the place of a shelter dog. Along with that, you can't just show numbers and say there are enough homes for every pet. That's not true. Most people want pets that are young, healthy, a certain size/breed/coat type and do not have many behavior problems. While I can and will always recommend shelter dogs, there are many that DO have behavior and health problems not everyone can deal with. Many can also not live with children, other dogs, other pets, in apartments, a loud household, or just someone who does not have dog experience. There are many shelter dogs who can fit into people's lives, but the problem is that not all the people can fit into the life a shelter dog needs.

3. The breeding of certain specific breeds is so shot that it does completely need to be revamped. Certain breeds like GSDs, Cavs, Frenchies, etc. are so totally shot that they really need to stir up the bloodlines and change some of the standards to create healthier animals. And just a random thought, I think it's strange you mentioned Dalmatians were prone to cardiac issues rather than deafness, which is so prevalent almost a third of pups have it.

4. Not true at all. First of all, purebreds ARE superior at certain tasks than mixes. If you put a Border Collie and mutt on a field of sheep, that BC will likely take to herding the sheep much better. This is why different breeds exist. Dogs are bred because people like the specific traits those dogs have. Those traits are not just looks. It's temperament, coat type, prey drive/hunting ability, tracking ability, guarding ability, herding ability, intelligence, size, energy level, and yes...health. Before the Victorian era dogs were never specifically bred as breeds because people thought "I want a new breed!" They thought "I want a dog that's the best at *insert human need*", then started breeding all the dogs with those qualities together. The Victorian era was the only time purely appearance and stupid dog show standards started to screw up breeds and canine genetics. It is true that many people these days just want dogs for companionship and only seek out dogs they like the look of, but these are people who...are not dog people. And in my opinion, not responsible dog owners at all. Also, in terms of health mutts ARE generally healthier, but they can have genetic conditions too. I have a puppy mill bred "designer" dog and a rescue mutt. Both of them have luxating patellas, a genetic condition. And the most short lived dog I ever had? A mutt who died at 6.5 from sudden kidney failure, and likely was born with kidney problems. Purebreds have much higher chances of genetic conditions, but mutts are not immune.

5. This is not true AT ALL. Again, dogs are NOT just bred for the show ring. Many are bred for work. Good breeders ALWAYS take behavior AND health into consideration. Backyard breeders and puppy millers are the ones that don't take health and behavior into consideration.

When you breed dogs for a purpose they will very likely stay healthy and strong. For example, a very little known breed called the Blue Lacy--the state dog of TX, is known for being both very healthy and long lived, with little to no genetic health problems. They've been bred since the 1800s as pure, but they've managed to stay strong because the breeders actually care about what the dog can do, not what they look like.

Dog breeding has to be revamped, but if we do away with all dog breeding then we will have no dogs bred especially for any purposes. That means no dogs for soldiers with PTSD, children with autism, police officers, farmers, hunters, rescue teams, and no dogs purposely bred to be lapdogs or with non-shedding coats. I am for breeding for a purpose, and I actually support culling the litter, which many people consider abhorrent. Also I have to say I take anything PETA ever says with a grain of salt, and a lot of suspicion. They're radicals who kidnap people's pets and have a horrendous euth rate.
 

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I can't say know all the in's and outs of breeding, shelters etc. All of the dogs I've had in the past were either strays we took in and adopted, or rescued from someone else. We've had some amazing dogs (and cats) that showed up on our doorstep looking for a meal and a place to call home.

This minpin is my first true experience with a purebred dog.

He came from a questionable breeder in BC, gf's son was driving by and seen a sign that said puppies for sale. He went in, paid the price and left with a puppy. We don't even know how to contact the breeder to find out about history and such. We ended up with the dog - thankfully.

Little bugger is defective in many ways, would probably have been put down by a legit breeder - or so I'm told from the one's I spoke with anyway. He's got thyroid problems, always had skin problems, his floating ribs are really soft and cross over one another periodically. Primary lower ribcage is somewhat soft. Unsure what happened to his tail, he wasn't docked, just a very small stump with a bag of skin hanging off.

From this perspective, I don't like back yard breeders - but this dog has found a place in our hearts and I couldn't imagine life without him. His temperament is wonderful, very loving, very cute and very smart. Take the good with the bad.

Hunting dogs, many people want the good breeders to get the best possible dog. That I agree with. I do see your point with so many dogs being destroyed yearly but to each their own.
 

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I think back yard breeding is not What i'd consider and agument against or pro breeding, as well as oops-litters arent, because they're not really breeding with a plan or trying keep the breeds "pure" to their look and purpose, which is one main characteristics of dog breeding in my opinion.

purpose and working ability always has to go hand in hand with health and temperament stability. A dog that's not well can't do it's job and a dog that doesn't have a temperament fit to it's job (which can mean different things for a Dackel than for a Maremmo for example), it is also not suitable for the job and should be bred.
You need to have well-informed, experienced people with a vision to do this. you can't get this type of dogs with just letting dogs run free and them either getting knocked-up or getting hit by a car.

I've had a purebred with perfect bones and a multi-generation mix (street dog) with strong HD by the way...so saying that mixes are "always healthier" is just not the truth.
if you're unlucky a mixed breed will get the heriditary deceases of all purebred ancestors and if you didn't do your homework before getting a dog you can get a purebred similarly riddled with health problems.
 

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Honestly I had wrote out a huge response to this but honestly with a little bit of research on this forum you can find that MANY of the members here support (and have) dogs from breeders. This topic has been discussed and discussed ad nauseam. If you're looking to get a fight going (which tends to happen with these types of discussion) this is the way to do it.

Also, I encourage you to look at things from both sides. Citing articles that are very biased on the subject is not a way to be taken seriously in a discussion. It's like someone citing Fox News or Huffington Post as fact in a political debate.

For Reference, 2 recent conversation about pretty much the same topic that went on and on. I encourage you to read. You will see that many of our consistent members do not share your view.

http://www.dogforum.com/new-additions/adopt-breeder-271722/

http://www.dogforum.com/general-dog-discussion/who-will-support-me-adopt-not-252330/
 

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I hate when people join this forum JUST to cause an argument...

As long as the dog comes through a responsible channel, I really don't care if it's adopted, from a breeder or an alien brings it down from Mars.

FYI--- there are many irresponsible rescues and shelters can only house so many animals.
 

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I am so tired of adopt don't shop. Both my dogs are from breeders. My future dogs will be from breeders. I really don't get society's fascination with getting all up in other people's business. I mean really, can you imagine if we were like this about everything?

Do you buy only locally raised animal products? No? How dare you, you're taking away from your local community.

Do you own a car that was manufactured outside your country? (Spoiler alert: almost everything on a car these days has something manufactured in a cheaper place).

Do you buy clothes that are 100% sweat-shop free and all workers are paid a decent wage?

Ever buy coffee that isn't fair trade?

And citing PETA is like asking oil companies if their product is environmentally damaging. I wouldn't trust a damn thing they say.
 

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@Shandula - good post!

The only time I use "adopt don't shop" is on Instagram because when people search that hashtag, I want them to see Aspen's cute mug :)

#mydogissocute #everyoneshouldseeher #mynextdogwillbefromabreeder ;)
 

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It ended up being a little more rant-y than I was going for, but I haven't had lunch, so I'm totally hangry. :p
 

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You have no valid argument as I see it. You clearly did not do research and only used narrow sources that support your view, even though they are inaccurate. I can't take anyone seriously who is going to cite PETA.

I do know the facts about dog breeding, which is why I know your whole post is one big generalization, which means you are completely wrong. Dog breeding is a complex issue, not black and white with only one way.

1. I don't see the point of mentioning this. All domesticated animal breeding and captive breeding inhibits evolution. A domesticated animal is bred by man for a specific set of traits, of course this isn't natural selection. This applies to snakes, cows, chickens, rabbits, dogs, cats, rats and the list goes on! Number 1 is an irrelevant point to the discussion. How do you define what is useful to the species of a domesticated, pet animal?

2. It is unfortunate that animals are PTS. Though this is caused by over breeding by irresponsible breeders and then compounded by irresponsible owners. You also later discuss genetic disorders and touch on temperament; you are more likely to get these issues in a shelter dog vs a well bred dog from a breeder. There are many great dogs in shelters, but many that have been adopted with problems that owners work with. No one is saying they shouldn't have a home but not everyone wants to risk health and temperament. If you need a very specific dog you are also very likely not to find this in a shelter, that's the point of selective breeding. Even pure bred dogs in shelters are usually random, byb dogs.

3. Genetic disorders are caused by GENES, not inbreeding. Genetic mutations can occur in random bred populations. This includes wild populations that do not practice close matings, yet you still see recessive traits from time to time. All species are related some where, not only domesticated ones. Inbreeding increases the chances for having the same genes, which translates to a probability of getting two like recessive alleles. Yet we see cross breds and mixes who have genetic diseases because dogs come from the same common ancestors and others are even more recently related.
Some breeds lack of genetic diversity is severe, for other breeds it is not. So you are generalizing the worse as the norm of every breed. Small founder population, decreased population, popular sires all contribute to a lack of genetic diversity, but this is not an issue in every breed. Inbreeding in and of itself isn't going to even cause this if breeders are line breeding in different directions. That would actually help maintain the breeds diversity.

4. Which humans? I do not believe pure beds are superior. I believe certain pure beds are "superior" at some tasks (better at certain things) than other dogs (pure or mixed) when appropriately bred. I believe certain crosses can be "superior" than other dogs at certain things too at times. Where is your citation that pure breds often have health issues? This is another untrue generalization. Not only that, but not all genetic disorders are life threatening or decrease lifespan. Mixed breed dogs also suffer from genetic health issues, including hip dysplasia and cancer, which are two things that can prematurely end a dog's lifespan.

5. Blatant lie. Where did you get 3% of the score (some dogs have been excused from the ring for their behavior). Judges are there to judge the conformation of the dog and take into account behavior, it's a conformation show. However, they do not decide what dog the breeder chooses to bred or not. This is so irrelevant, as it doesn't at all mean that temperament isn't taken into account when actual breedings are made.
The breeder is the one interacting with the dog on the daily basis who decides if the dog has temperament and traits they wish to pass on.
The breeder is the one who assesses if the dog has appropriate drives. breeding
*Temperament testing gives a systematic, standardized, third party opinion of a dogs temperament.
*Ability and drive testing, field trials and sports give a score, result, 3rd party opinion, etc on a dog's temperament, drives, behavioral traits and abilities.
Successfully doing the job a dog was bred to do and having a breed appropriate temperament and drives tells you what you need to know about behavior.

*What you said above about shows not taking into account behavior would be the equivalent of saying behavior tests don't take into consideration a dog's conformation. See how silly that sounds either way. A specific judgement or tests is going to be judging on the specific traits. Do you expect a spelling test to judge your math skills? No!

When dogs are bred by any good breeder behavior is a factor. Some dogs are not bred for conformation or physical traits at all, so your theory does not hold water.

When I wanted an LGD I bought a dog born from dogs that were doing the job. They have never been inside a show ring, they guard stock from large predators. There was no consideration to conformation and every consideration to behavior (health also).

When I wanted a Cane Corso, I did want a show quality dog, but I also wanted a dog with correct drive and good temperament, health was very important also. So I found a breeder that bred for the total package. While the parents are show CHs, the line produced working and sport titled dogs. The sire was proven in producing correctly driven dogs and titled dogs. He was also trained and tested multiple levels for Obedience / protection.

The Patterdale I had to pass up on was bred for work, which means behavior is what's taken into consideration. The litter was two excellent working parents. I hope to get a puppy later his year. The dogs are not bred for how they look, the show ring, all they do hunt, hunt, hunt. You are spreading some myths yourself about dog shows and painting a distorted picture.
 

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1. Dog breeding inhibits evolution. Natural selection works to improve a a species' ability to survive. Selective breeding, however, is artificial. It does not work in conjunction with the what helps the species survive. A breeder may choose to breed traits that are more physically attractive rather than traits that are useful to the species. This is commonly seen in show dogs.

It doesn't inhibit evolution. It's a powerful example of the influence artificial selection can have on evolution. In terms of not working in favor of the species itself, that depends on how you decide to breed. Poor breeding = poor outcome. Good breeding = good outcome.

2. Dog breeding takes away business from animal shelters. Three to four million dogs are put down every year in shelters because they can not find a home. In America, there are 45 cats and dogs born for every person that is born, so clearly overpopulation among household pets is a problem even without the help of breeders.

Animal shelters aren't there for "business." They're there to account for the overpopulation problem. I had considered getting an animal from a shelter in order to not contribute to the overpopulation problem, however, I also want a healthy puppy and shelters immediately desex dogs as soon as they're 8 weeks old. That doesn't allow for proper endocrine function and development. Therefore I would actually prefer a breeder so that I can spay my puppy at the right time OR more likely, have an ovary sparing spay performed. If I were interested in a male dog, I'd have a vasectomy done on him.

3. Genetic disorders can be caused by inbreeding. It is no secret that breeders mate dogs of the same bloodlines. In some breeds it is almost impossible to find two purebreds

This is why genetic testing is so important. Also, I think the cross breeds that people are coming out with these days is a positive thing in terms of deepening the gene pool. While some dogs are bred for a particular purpose (sled pulling, tracking, et cetera), some of us just want a good pet and I think crossing breeds can be a good thing in that regard.

4. Dogs are only bred because humans have created a myth that purebreds are superior's a to mixed dogs. This is blatantly false health-wise. Because purebreds often have health issues (like genetic disorders previously mentioned), they have a shorter life expectancy.

Not so. People breed dogs to create new breeds as well. For example, someone liked the look of a husky but didn't like the size. They took an undersized husky and mixed it with other breeds until they created a new breed with a new standard. This new breed is known as the Alaskan Klee Kai. Many breeds were made by crossing other breeds together until they get a consistent outcome. People are continuing to cross breeds and some day, some of those may be officially recognized breeds of their own. A "breed" is just an officially recognized type of dog with a defined standard. In terms of health, if you cross two different breeds with the same health problems, you'll still get those same health problems. Deepening the gene pool is a positive thing, but if both pools have the same diseases, the resulting dog will have issues too. Good breeders also make an effort to screen for and select against known problems.

5. When dogs are bred, behavior is not take into consideration. Doegs are bred primarily for dog shows, and behavior factors into only 3% of the final score of the judges.

Many breeds have temperament standards. Also, there is a difference between what IS done and what COULD be done. You could breed for temperament. I know, for example, that efforts are currently being made to improve the temperament of Alaskan Klee Kais who are often times quite shy.

I'm for responsible breeding and I'm also for responsible rescue. If rescues and shelters weren't so gonadectomy-happy, I'd go for a dog from a shelter. Since they are quite gonadectomy-happy, I'll be seeking a dog from a breeder.
 

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My next dog will come from a breeder because I want a puppy. My last dog was a rescue from a kill shelter because he is a Beagle and they are easy to find in the south and you can walk in a shelter and walk out within minutes with a dog. It's funny because I do not live in the south.. I just know where to go to get Beagles.

I have attempted rescuing before and like other good people, have been denied for lame reasons such as not owning my own home and I move around a lot. It does not matter that I have had the same vet for 20+ years who can vouch that I have never gotten rid of a dog.. all they see is my living arrangements. Sure, other people dump dogs but what about those of us who do not? Oh, and home checks. I do not have a fenced in yard..but again, I have never "lost" a dog. They don't care about that. Shelters are more snobby than some breeder with 50+ metals. I don't even understand the logic of owning a home because look at the foreclosure and divorce rates... the married couple with the white picket fence might be divorced in 3 years...but okay, they win for having the perfect home! Divorced couples and non-married couples break up all the time and fight over the dog yet the single person who lives in different states and rents dog-friendly homes is denied. Makes perfect sense.


As for dog breeding, I think it should be treated as "self-employed" and they should have a license, business name, pay taxes, etc. They should be required by law to have genetic testing done the same way farms have to have their animals tested for certain things. This would get rid of the back yard breeders who brag that they can get more for their puppies during tax season and Christmas time. By getting rid of back-yard breeders, we would see less dogs in the pounds. Spaying/Neutering should also be required by law unless they have a breeder license or the dog has health problems..because all these "mixes" turning up in pounds were accidents.
 

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I highly disagree about mandatory spay/neuter. Having an intact animal does not make you irresponsible or mean you will have pups. It does not mean you are contributing to the overpopulation problem. I've had/have intact animals and have never had a litter, never had an accident.

Ban puppies/kittens from pet stores and get rid of mills, that would cut down on the shelter numbers. I'm more torn on the BYB thing, because it's not just black and white. There are a range in what people consider a BYB. IMO not all 'BYB' are bad. Is someone that doesn't show but health test a BYB? What about someone who breeds a litter from their working dogs, are they a BYB?
 
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