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Discussion Starter #1
I see you all banned kwenami she didnt neglect doppler it was his previous owners she tried her best in her circumstances. therefore i request you suspend my account or ban me as i dont want to return ever again or even be given chance to log in again.
 

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Discussion Starter #2
Im also dead serious about this. No jokes
 

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Ok, so you asked me on FB for an explanation. Once we are done discussing here, we will honor your request and ban your account.

Here's the neglect rule:

12) Animal Abuse and Neglect.
DogForum.com does not, in any way, condone or accept the abuse, mistreatment, or neglect of any living animal. All animals deserve humane treatment/training, proper housing and hygiene, training, and vet care. If it is brought to our attention that an animal may be being abused, mistreated, or neglected by a member, and the member does not act to resolve the issue, it may result in a ban from the forum.
The mod team discussed this and voted on it. Not a single mod voted against banning her. We ALL felt she broke this rule. This rule defines neglect as not just failing to provide food or water, but also failing to provide needed training or humane training. That's where the issue is with this situation. Kwenami neglected his unique mental and training needs, and she made him pay with his life.

Our understanding is that her boyfriend and his ex had Doppler for 4 years. He had known problems, and was not being treated right by them.

Kwenami made a conscious decision to take Doppler in as her own, knowing full well what these problems were. Kwenami was in WAY over her head and she should have recognized it. She brought him into a small apartment with no yard, a rabbit, and Koda, who she knows does not do well with other dogs. She had problems with potty training, getting him to relax, resource guarding, cutting his nails, getting him and koda to get along and him trying to kill her rabbit. She could not physically set him up to succeed in that environment. He was stress stacked and it was not good for him.

Not only was it a bad decision to take him in, I will also remind you that Kwenami is not a professional trainer or an experienced trainer. She failed Doppler by, for whatever reason, neglecting to seek professional help and also medication like Prozac that could have helped Doppler with his anxiety. Yes, she quit her job and was almost homeless. But she still had her job when she got Doppler, and she still didn't seek professional help. I cannot fathom why she felt she could fix this dog on her own when she could barely handle Koda's issues. She mentioned she suspected he had neurological/emotional issues....But how can she when she has no experience with that? Why wouldn't she see a vet for these assumed possible neurological issues? She never, to our knowledge, sought professional advice.

Furthermore, the problems that she listed? No professional trainer would ever agree that those are good reasons to euthanize. Those are all common problems that very likely could have been rectified in a bigger home with a yard with somebody who knew what they were doing. Of course a TERRIER tried to kill her rabbit. Of course she had trouble potty training a nervous marker when she has no yard. Of course he tried to bite her when she tried to trim his nails, when he was never conditioned or trained to accept nail trims. Of course she had trouble getting him to settle down and relax when he's in a tiny home with a prey animal he wants to kill, and another dog with her own issues. Of course he resource guarded.

None of this was fair to Doppler. None of it. At all. She fed him, loved him, kept him safe. But she ultimately neglected what that dog truly needed mentally and training-wise, and that's not ok.

As a moderation team, we felt extremely uncomfortable that the decision to euthanize was made by her and her alone. And keep in mind that on moderation team, we have professional and experienced trainers. We felt uncomfortable at the thought of her giving training advice to people who might be in a similar situation. She should not be helping others if she couldn't deal with her own problem dog herself.

If she could not provide for him, he should have been surrendered to a shelter. Not killed. At least then he would have had a chance at being pulled by a rescue, or an experienced individual. At least then it would have been up to the shelter staff to make that call, because they have experience at determining how adoptable or non-adoptable a dog is.

This is why we made the decision we did.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
it makes me uncomfortable if my brother decided or my parents decided that ozzy needed to be put down for his dog agressiveness and other problems that i couldnt come ask for help. also i dont feel id be allowed if you feel that way about kwenami that id be able to help others with similar dogs to Jessie. I also cant trust myself not to get angry at you mods if i decided to come back and that isnt right. even if its only a temporary ban or a 6-12 month one i dont care right now this forum seems toxic.

TBH with you all i understand why she did what she did no one has unlimited rescources and when you move its hard to tell how a dog will settle down or not the trainers could of said wait and see how he settles in a few months and if she did get him help after a few months and he got worse thats only added stress to her esp she basically homeless. it wasnt a easy decision but she didnt want the prong trainer and fair enough i wouldnt want that for my dog either. even i have limited rescources no one offered any rescources or suggested any shelter that might of taken him on or if they knew anyone who could potentially help or assess him either which would of been really helpful for her and she would of felt supported then. if i were in her shoes i wouldnt feel supported at all adn that you all turned against me too.

So if i were to be homeless no family to take care of Jessie and i didnt think sne would do well in a shelter be fed crap food make her sick and the owners wouldnt feed her PMR food she would suffer then id be banned too. Not that i plan to BE in that situation or plan to do such thing to Jessie but lifes circumstances change all the time and even i have limited resources and rely on my family for help and support.
 

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Like I said, we are more than happy to honor your wish to be banned. I just wanted to make sure we talk about it first. As soon as we're done, we will ban your account. If you want input from other mods besides me, we can wait until they are on later.

Also, yes, at least two people from DF offered to try and help her :\ Including myself. There is a jack russell terrier rescue within driving distance of me. Arrangements could have been made. Kmes was also offering advice in her last thread, and I'm sure would have been more than happy to continue. A lot of behaviorists offer free consults too, but that was never utilized.

Finally, Kwenami had a job when she first got Doppler. Her boyfriend did too. If I recall correctly, they payed money to have him flown in, which isn't cheap. Why did she not hire a behaviorist then? She took him to the vet. Why didn't she ask about meds for his anxiety then? Medication costs $4 a month. It's not expensive. If she didn't have money for professional training and meds, she should not have made the decision to take him in.

We are not ok with somebody deciding to euthanize a dog for behavior, when the dog was never evaluated by a professional unless the dog is outright dangerous.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
donna i meant on the thread she made why didnt people offer or tell her about those options and that behaviorists offer free consults? not everyone knows that and depending where you live and the country not all medication is cheap or that cheap. I know over here its extorniate so expensive!

no its ok feel free to ban me now id rather it was over with
 

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Zoe, Phoenix, Alice - ACDx
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I actually did say all of those things on her thread. That behaviorist offer free consults through their regular vet. Also another personal friend of mine who lives near her offered to help as well. She flat our refused the help.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
@ZoesMom but vets can charge you for coming in and i had no idea you had a personal friend offer help. who was the person trainer with prong though? you got to admit that is seruiously off putting
 

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All still just excuses for her.

You forget that Kwenami QUIT her job. She was not fired or laid off. If she's about to be homeless, it's her own fault. Why anybody would quit their job without a backup plan when they have bills and pets to care for is beyond me.
 

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Also, she took him into the vet for his diarrhea. She could have asked for meds then. It would have been no extra charge because she was already paying for an office visit.
 

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Zoe, Phoenix, Alice - ACDx
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Yes, she would have to come up with the $40-ish for the initial vet visit, plus meds. The generic medication is actually very cheap. If she wanted to make it happen she could of. There are credit cards and even care credit available to help with vet visits. In my opinion $40 is nothing. She could of borrowed it. My point is she didn't try.

The behaviorist consult through her own vet being free is pretty amazing considering if you try and make an appointment with them they are $600.. Vet to Vet Behaviorist consultations are usually always free... So she would of only had to pay the initial exam fee from her own vet plus the cost of any meds.

I have no idea who the prong collar person was but my friend knows a positive reinforcement trainer and she offered to help her.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
All still just excuses for her.

You forget that Kwenami QUIT her job. She was not fired or laid off. If she's about to be homeless, it's her own fault. Why anybody would quit their job without a backup plan when they have bills and pets to care for is beyond me.
medical professionals told her she had to leave her job she didnt want to!
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Look can we get this ban over with? im not well and tired and dontn want to talk further without arguing
 

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@ZoesMom but vets can charge you for coming in and i had no idea you had a personal friend offer help. who was the person trainer with prong though? you got to admit that is seruiously off putting
No, this person who offered help is an experienced forum member. She offered to get Kwenami in touch with her friend/trainer. A Karen Pryor Academy certified trainer (reward based NOT prong/aversive) who is not that far away from Kwenami, I believe.
 

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Discussion Starter #15
@kmes which member is that?
 

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medical professionals told her she had to leave her job she didnt want to!
That's not what she told one of the mods here.

We still keep coming down to a few important things, despite all of the excuses.

She did not seek professional training for him. Period. She had the dog long enough, she knew getting him he would have issues, she had him when she had a job and had money, there are still credit cards. She didn't. She refused help offered to her and she didn't take it. She failed to provide him something that he needed. She failed to get a professional opinion before she put down a dog that could have been helped.
 
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