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So I went in to my vet office today to set up an appointment for my 20 week old puppy to get his flu shot. They told me that he was also overdue by about a week on his bordetella and combination boosters. I was confused as I remember being told that he was all done with his core vaccines when he had his 16 week appointment a month ago. Can you all look at his schedule and tell me if I am indeed missing something?

He was a backyard rescue puppy who had no medical care until I took him home at 9 weeks, so his first set was late.

8/20 (9 weeks old): Parvo/distemper combination shot

switch to new vet

9/10 (12 weeks old): Bordetella intranasal, DA2PPV
10/10 (16 weeks old): Bordetella booster, DA2PPV, rabies

In my personal research it seems as though only one bordetella booster (first shot and then booster) is need until the dog is 1 year, and only 3 sets of the combination are done. I am confused as to why my vet is telling me something adverse to what I have found myself. Does it look like I am missing something? I don't want him to get more shots then he needs and I also don't want to be swindled in to buying vaccinations that are unnecessary. However, I don't want him missing out on anything important.
 

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The cynical answer, because he can get away with over vaccinating ($$$) as most owners don't know to question the practice. You don't just want to be swindled into getting unnecessary vaccinations, you don't want your dog to get unneeded vaccinations for the sake of their health. When it comes to vaccines more is not better. Generally once a dog is immune they are immune for life, so doing titers is a better way to go. The exception is rabies because its required by law. Also bacterial vaccines like Bordatella do not provide a lasting immune response, which is why they have to be repeated more often (if you choose to even have that vaccine).

I would also caution you not to get the rabies vaccine at the same time as other vaccines as it is potentially the most reactive and could be even more so when combined with other antigens. I would recommend you have it done alone and at least 4 weeks after the other vaccines. I would also request the thimerosal-free (mercury-free) rabies preparation.

Dr. Jean Dodds' Pet Health Resource Blog | 2013 and 2014 Canine Vaccination Protocol - W....
 

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The AVMA has a guideline you could look at.

Not all dogs are immune for life after receiving vaccines. I am not a fan of over vaccinating but unless someone is getting accurate titers done, don't assume your dog is immune. Herd immunity is real. Vaccines save more lives than they kill.
 

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The cynical answer, because he can get away with over vaccinating ($$$) as most owners don't know to question the practice. You don't just want to be swindled into getting unnecessary vaccinations, you don't want your dog to get unneeded vaccinations for the sake of their health. When it comes to vaccines more is not better. Generally once a dog is immune they are immune for life, so doing titers is a better way to go. The exception is rabies because its required by law. Also bacterial vaccines like Bordatella do not provide a lasting immune response, which is why they have to be repeated more often (if you choose to even have that vaccine).

I would also caution you not to get the rabies vaccine at the same time as other vaccines as it is potentially the most reactive and could be even more so when combined with other antigens. I would recommend you have it done alone and at least 4 weeks after the other vaccines. I would also request the thimerosal-free (mercury-free) rabies preparation.

Dr. Jean Dodds' Pet Health Resource Blog | 2013 and 2014 Canine Vaccination Protocol - W....
Sorry if im hijacking the thread please forgive me but my dog needs the rabies vaccine before emigrating to the uk in may and i was going to try get done at same time as her other vaccines but reading this i should wait then? Jessie has never had rabies vaccine you see.
 

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Sorry if im hijacking the thread please forgive me but my dog needs the rabies vaccine before emigrating to the uk in may and i was going to try get done at same time as her other vaccines but reading this i should wait then? Jessie has never had rabies vaccine you see.
I would definitely not get rabies done when you get her other vaccines. There is absolutely no need to over stress your dog's immune system, especially as you have a little dog, and vaccines are not dosed according to size.
 

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I would definitely not get rabies done when you get her other vaccines. There is absolutely no need to over stress your dog's immune system, especially as you have a little dog, and vaccines are not dosed according to size.
thank you! i will get it done separately for sure! a month before fly then not February. Yes Jessie is a small dog weighing in at 5.7kg! i didnt know vaccines werent dosed according to size though thanks for the heads up! greatly appreciated.
 

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thank you! i will get it done separately for sure! a month before fly then not February. Yes Jessie is a small dog weighing in at 5.7kg! i didnt know vaccines werent dosed according to size though thanks for the heads up! greatly appreciated.
You're welcome. And yes, your wee 5.7 kg'er would get the same rabies vaccine as my 90 kg brute.
 

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You're welcome. And yes, your wee 5.7 kg'er would get the same rabies vaccine as my 90 kg brute.
Holy cow! that is insane! thank goodness for this forum and such members letting me know these things! lucky im in bed still or i think id have nearly fainted in shock. technically should be up but grr i hate tension headaches and migraines and jess dont mind being in bed under covers lol
 

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Holy cow! that is insane! thank goodness for this forum and such members letting me know these things! lucky im in bed still or i think id have nearly fainted in shock. technically should be up but grr i hate tension headaches and migraines and jess dont mind being in bed under covers lol
There are some vets who go against the "rules" and half-dose small dogs, but it is most certainly frowned upon.
 

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Does the new vet know that your pup got the first set already? Maybe they didn't count that one for whatever reason since it wasn't done there.
 

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Holy cow! that is insane! thank goodness for this forum and such members letting me know these things! lucky im in bed still or i think id have nearly fainted in shock. technically should be up but grr i hate tension headaches and migraines and jess dont mind being in bed under covers lol

With Jessie's allergies definitely try and get the vaccines spaced out, it'll be easier on her immune system.

I hope that you are feeling better!
 
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So I went in to my vet office today to set up an appointment for my 20 week old puppy to get his flu shot. They told me that he was also overdue by about a week on his bordetella and combination boosters. I was confused as I remember being told that he was all done with his core vaccines when he had his 16 week appointment a month ago. Can you all look at his schedule and tell me if I am indeed missing something?

He was a backyard rescue puppy who had no medical care until I took him home at 9 weeks, so his first set was late.

8/20 (9 weeks old): Parvo/distemper combination shot

switch to new vet

9/10 (12 weeks old): Bordetella intranasal, DA2PPV
10/10 (16 weeks old): Bordetella booster, DA2PPV, rabies

In my personal research it seems as though only one bordetella booster (first shot and then booster) is need until the dog is 1 year, and only 3 sets of the combination are done. I am confused as to why my vet is telling me something adverse to what I have found myself. Does it look like I am missing something? I don't want him to get more shots then he needs and I also don't want to be swindled in to buying vaccinations that are unnecessary. However, I don't want him missing out on anything important.

Frequently Asked Questions Related to Vaccination & Dog Vaccines explains the vaccination schedule. Why your vet would be recommending another booster may be because he believes in giving one at around 18 weeks old since that's when most puppies have had their mothers antibodies wear off. Personally I'd have either opted to skip the 16 week vaccine and do one at 18 weeks or do one at 16 weeks then have the pups tithers checked at 18 or 20 weeks. The Bordatella vaccine every month for 3 months seems like major overkill to me and I can't find any schedule that recommends more then the second booster at 12 weeks some only recommend it be given once if it's the intranasal or twice if it's the injected vaccine.

I've be questioning your vet as to why he's recommending what he is and print out the vaccine schedule from a few different sites to prove to him you are educated on the subject.
 

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@crazy, if Jessie has never had a reaction to rabies before, she will be fine to have them done together. If you're concerned then have them give DHP, Pv 1 week prior to rabies. But, as I've said, If she's never had a reaction to a vaccine then she isn't going to suddenly develop one now. If she's sick still I wouldn't vaccinate and instead titre her, which should be enough to immigrate, we've had quite a few sick imports that have done this. Discuss this with your vet though.

Vaccines are dosed universal - 1 cc per vaccine. Dosing per weight is not required and has not been proven scientifically to provide the same efficacy. Therefore no vets I know of would even contemplate dosing by weight.

Think of it in human vaccines, I want a Rabies vaccine and so does my friend, I'm 5' 3" and 120lb, she's 5'7" and 180 lbs. If I were to receive less vaccine, the efficacy of the vaccine will be compromised so they give us the same dose and let our immune system do what it's been made to do.

Back to the OP - It really depends on the protocol the vet believes in and the rates of disease in your area. For example: I live in alberta canada. We have little to no Parvo, only a few cases of Distemper, and Rabies. Therefore puppies at your's age would be given DHP,PV at 9 weeks and DHP,PV at 13 weeks, and DHP, PV, Rab at 19 weeks (we always wait until after 16 weeks to give Rabies). We keep Parvo and distemperat bay thanks to this protocol.

After this cycle the pet would be good for a year, then after the year every three years. Bordetella can be given at 16 weeks as well, but the intranasal vaccines (at least according to our manufacturer) does not need to be boostered, the injectable one does. To me you pet, even though the vaccines were bolstered a week early, would be done until from the vaccines last date given at 16 weeks.


Also if, once initial sets are done, you can always titre if you're truly worried. However, titers do NOT denote protection against a given disease as it only show the antibodies in your pet's system, not how your pet's system would react in the event of exposure so I wouldn't replace vaccines with just titres.
 
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@crazy, if Jessie has never had a reaction to rabies before, she will be fine to have them done together. If you're concerned then have them give DHP, Pv 1 week prior to rabies. But, as I've said, If she's never had a reaction to a vaccine then she isn't going to suddenly develop one now. If she's sick still I wouldn't vaccinate and instead titre her, which should be enough to immigrate, we've had quite a few sick imports that have done this. Discuss this with your vet though.

Vaccines are dosed universal - 1 cc per vaccine. Dosing per weight is not required and has not been proven scientifically to provide the same efficacy. Therefore no vets I know of would even contemplate dosing by weight.

Think of it in human vaccines, I want a Rabies vaccine and so does my friend, I'm 5' 3" and 120lb, she's 5'7" and 180 lbs. If I were to receive less vaccine, the efficacy of the vaccine will be compromised so they give us the same dose and let our immune system do what it's been made to do.
Jessie has had the usual vaccines but not lepto or rabies. She once as a pup screamed during a vaccine, another time she had either had vaccine or anti nausea med nearly got the vets finger as it was that painful cant remember which she screamed the place down running around the room was very upsetting for both the vet and i never mind Jessie. Only other reaction would be the lump where administered the vaccine which went away a week later.

She is really healthy normally right now apart from wormers making her vomit and infrequent bursts of diareha which vet thinks is colitis its controlled by diet (still raw but only 2 pre made mixes at a time) with green tripe. Vet seems confident to do it all together but as she never had rabies vaccine before and used to have a dog who once reacted to a vaccine half his face swelled up it makes me a bit cautious?

btw wish i was your weight! but totally understand where coming from and what saying. need the full immunity for it.
 

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I have worked at a variety of well established small animal practices in California and ALL of them followed different Bordatella schedules. One of the problems is some manufacturers have different recommendations than do others (and if you chose not to follow your particular manufacturer's recommendations, you are opening yourself up legally). Some places I worked at boosted, some did not.. some used intranasal, some oral, some injectable, some a variety of these. Some boosted in 6 months, some in a year and some whenever the boarding facilities the clients were planning on having their dogs stay at demanded it.

The problem with Bordatella is it is a pretty poor vaccine (though not useless). It is fairly clear it does not offer lifelong protection no matter how many times you give it to your dog. Nor does it even offer 12 month protection really. 6 months is more realistic. But it is also NOT considered a core vaccine… in other words, if you dog does not need it, don't give it. Dogs that are highly social -go to the park a lot, get groomed or boarded regularly, or meet dogs on walks fairly regularly are at risk of getting Bordatella… but those that live in large yards and never get out or who live a fairly isolated life away from other people's dogs certainly do NOT need this vaccine.
 

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Bordatella is usually optional and not recommended unless your dog is going to be boarded, go to day care, grooming or training classes, as most of those facilities require it. Where I work, the bordatella can be given at 16 weeks along with rabies, if the owner wants it. Otherwise, it can be given at any time. There's no point in giving it earlier because the pup isn't fully vaccinated and cannot be boarded or groomed at most places anyway. There is no booster needed.

I usually have a parvo/distemper booster every 3 weeks or so until the puppy is 16 weeks. Sometimes one extra may be warranted if the series is started a bit later in life, especially in my area as parvo is super rampant. At 16, it gets rabies and is generally considered fully vaccinated for the year. I don't give lepto, lyme or bordatella.
 

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Sorry if im hijacking the thread please forgive me but my dog needs the rabies vaccine before emigrating to the uk in may and i was going to try get done at same time as her other vaccines but reading this i should wait then? Jessie has never had rabies vaccine you see.
I would do them a week apart. The vaccines are kind of a lot for a small dog, even though they come in a "one size fits all" dose. Where I work, vets always recommend waiting a week between vaccines for any dog under 20lbs, and for any dog that has a history of allergies, immune issues or vaccine reactions. It's just safer.
 

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I would do them a week apart. The vaccines are kind of a lot for a small dog, even though they come in a "one size fits all" dose. Where I work, vets always recommend waiting a week between vaccines for any dog under 20lbs, and for any dog that has a history of allergies, immune issues or vaccine reactions. It's just safer.
Glad im being cautious then. Jess only 12.5 pounds believe it or not! She never got past 5.9kg since raw fed very happy about that.

She due in feb for parvo distemper hepatitis etc botdatella vaccines adding lepto in to cover all bases. So if go mud may latest do beginning April that way done for the 21 day prior and time to work re rabbies vaccine.

Thank goodness I raised this question and got very good sensible suggestions a d advice thank you @TiggerBounce @Gnostic Dog and @KayWilson
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@KayWilson canine flu vaccine is "against" the H3N2 influenza strain.

Personally, I wouldn't touch it, because it was developed in 2009, and if you know anything about human influenza and the vaccine you will know the strains change yearly, so in all honestly, it is not likely to be effective at all. Even the human influenza vaccine is pretty much useless (even though we are never told that), last year the best efficacy they could offer was around 25% of those that had the vaccine didn't get the flu.

With a low efficacy rate, you are really taking way more risk by vaccinating than not vaccinating. Dogs that do get canine flu, generally recover on their own if they have a half decent immune system.
 
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