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Training the Unmotivated

2750 Views 18 Replies 9 Participants Last post by  agilityk9trainer
Aayla is starting to reach the point where I am very happy in her training and feel like I can spare some time to work with Kota. I feel like every time I do anything with him I'm ready to blow a fuse. He doesn't like toys, only likes praise on his time, and only likes treats inside the house on his own time. (Unless we are eating at a diner, then he is pestering us for our food, which he may not even eat)

I can't figure out how to get him to do anything except for negative punishment. He knows how to sit, shake and speak. That's it. He has no name recognition, or recall. I make him sit and wait for his food, that only worked because of negative punishment. I withhold his food until he stays out of my space and sits and waits. If he approaches me I remove his bowl. He doesn't get to walk until he does not pull. I've made some progress with his grooming anxiety through conditioning...and so on. That's only with our highest value treat and inside the house only. Even if I take him into our backyard for grooming he won't take anything.

I just want a somewhat recall and to able to handle his reactivity problems. Yet I cannot find a single way to do anything with him. I also would like him to stop pooping and peeing on the concrete part of our patio outside the doggy door, but at least its outside. He has recently decided that the grass is doggy lava. (thanks to the rain). He is diabetic so we can't limit his access to water or keep him crated for long periods of time. (like when we are gone working). He is also teaching Aayla bad habits that I want to stop.

Anyone dealt with dogs like this? He just doesn't care for us or rewards. I hate to think the only things I can do are things that can be dealt with through negative punishment.

It comes to the point that since I can't reward him for anything he takes more man handling. Want him out of the room? Grab his collar and drag him out or push him with your feet. Want him to come to you? Go to him, grab his collar and take him where you want him to go. He is barking outside at the gardeners (that are with the HOA so we can't predict when they are going to be there) I have to catch him and drag him inside. Everything is man handling and I hate it. My BF just yells at him and intimidates him, which does work for some things. I try to get him to stop but its hard when I can't even show him an alternative way to make things work. Everything I have tried does not work.
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I used to have a chow mix!

He was very low drive for food and toys. Until you build that drive, use what he likes. Even if you have to cook food for him. I used to have to bake chicken just to play focus games with Otis, but eventually, he was able to do incredible things for a tiny piece of kibble or a game of tug. You have to really do training at their pace and balance skill and challenge: Too easy and they are bored and walk away. Too hard and they are overwhelmed and walk away. Chows will not suffer a poorly designed training session. You want to build the love of learning and food and toy drive typically can grow from being associated with training sessions, IME.

Chows (and chow mixes) tend to be very independent, aloof dogs who aren't affectionate in the traditional way dogs are. Sometimes, luring tends to be a tiny bit stressful, as you are invading their personal space bubble and trying to get their bodies to move in certain ways. I recommend trying shaping. However, you have to be VERY good at shaping to get a chow (or a chow mix) into the game. Use a high value reward and a high rate of reinforcement in a very short session.

They also don't really care about petting and praise as far as a reward goes. Petting is VERY much on their terms. Otis preferred quiet praise vs animated praise once I taught him that praise meant he was on the right track (learned by association--he got more praise when he was about to figure something out).

When training, incorporate breaks in the training. Train like two reps of something, sit down somewhere. If he does his own thing, OK. If he comes to you and say, "HEY? I want more chicken!" Go and train him some more. You want to set up situations where he is asking you to get up and work with him. In addition, teach a "go sniff" or a "be a dog" type of cue so you can incorporate breaks in training outside, too.

Otis used to be VERY reactive as well. I recommend BAT 2.0 above. I used BAT with Otis and it was SUPER effective. 2.0 is supposed to be even better and I've already used 2.0 with my new fearful girl and she's a thousand times better!

I found that my chow mix (I say mine, but he was my dad's and I just trained him while I lived with my dad) blossomed with positive techniques. Don't get too frustrated and just remember that the more difficult the dog, the more he can teach you. Don't be afraid to get help and work with a trainer.

Otis taught me so much that I use with my new dog: A high drive, sensitive terrier mix I got from the shelter.
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@ThatYellowDog - Glad my experience might be able to help you and Kota. When starting with the clicker, click fast, click often and use a very high rate of reinforcement. I usually start with targeting. Otis did not take to shaping very quickly, but once he figured out that HE made clicks happen through his behavior and it was up to him to figure things out, he got hooked. I also clicker train my guinea pig.

Positive methods work really well with these low-motivation dogs if one understands the methods. I've worked with hundreds of dogs of many breeds and temperaments. You really need to learn every dog's quirks and honor who they are and you'll go far.
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