Dog Forum banner

Status
Not open for further replies.
61 - 80 of 86 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,054 Posts
I understand your position and as well wish I could take my dogs everywhere with me especially my oh so super friendly pit bull.

I guess the thing with putting your dogs at risk for the "better of the breed" doesn't sit well with me but I am not a breeder and the only dog of mine that would be a good candidate for breeding was spayed when we got her (my little chi) my other ones would be HORRIBLE candidates for breeding lol.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18,680 Posts
Thanks Criosphynx, believe me I wish I felt like I didn't have to breed -- but I feel like my breed is going downhill majorly! :( There is such a limited gene pool because so many people breed to the same dogs, and we're losing our structure/movement -- there is actually a proposal to try to change the tervuren standard in the US to make the shoulders 10 degrees straighter, because so many breeders don't want to fix their mistakes but keep making the same mistakes instead. We're getting so many cowhocked straight shouldered dogs, and it's really sad.. so my goal is to keep good structure, while carrying on a line that is relatively unseen (actually the pedigree I have right now from my last litter is darn right unseen -- the sire was born over 20 years ago). I agree that too many people breed their dogs! And I definatly agree that I am also jealous I can' take my dogs everwhyere..though I try to hehe. When I was a teenager I made fake guide dog vests so I could take my dogs into places LOL -- when you get older you just don't have the guts to do that kind of stuff anymore!

Wow...I think its amazing the things people are doing with AI now...breeding dogs from all over the place, and all over time!

You can actually purchase service dog vest/patches without a certification...its very tempting, but I can't bring myself to do it. :)



Dog | Forum | Rocks!
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
32 Posts
Uniquity belgains I thank you for backing me up on this....:D I am experiencing alot of health concerns with my belgian. I unfortunalty neutered him. He is the last dog I will ever neuter again.

I can finally breathe a sigh of relief knowing that there is someone out there who does agree with me and does know neutering and spaying causes issues because dogs like us..need hormones.

I bow down to you :rockon:

Might I add I was recently banned from another Dog forum of some type because I made a post saying I disagree with spaying and neutering and I was banned because I was a "troll".
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18,680 Posts
Uniquity belgains I thank you for backing me up on this....:D I am experiencing alot of health concerns with my belgian. I unfortunalty neutered him. He is the last dog I will ever neuter again.

I can finally breathe a sigh of relief knowing that there is someone out there who does agree with me and does know neutering and spaying causes issues because dogs like us..need hormones.

I bow down to you :rockon:

Might I add I was recently banned from another Dog forum of some type because I made a post saying I disagree with spaying and neutering and I was banned because I was a "troll".
it is not what you are saying...its is how you are saying it. :) If you are baiting people it does make you a troll, giving an opinion is awesome... giving an opinion as fact will cause an argument.

from wiki
In Internet slang, a troll is someone who posts controversial, inflammatory, irrelevant or off-topic messages in an online community, such as an online discussion forum, chat room or blog, with the primary intent of provoking other users into an emotional or disciplinary response[1] or of otherwise disrupting normal on-topic discussion
Someone who gets pleasure by typing annoying/controversial/offensive words at strangers on internet forums, for them to read.
UB is hardly blaming the falling sky on neutering as you have.



Dog | Forum | Rocks!
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
32 Posts
I have not either. Sorry all I said is neutering and spaying cause more issues than they fix. Atleast with me anyway. You all think that my dogs issues were not because of his complete neuter when I and lots of others here think it is. Kinda coincidental all his allergies appear after neutering and his temperment worsens. Yet its all blamed how I raised him. He was prefectly fine up until after his neuter. I never said if you neuter your screwed up in the head...I simply am stating like UB was..if you have to neuter or spay your animals to keep them from roaming...you should not own one. In my opinion..neutering and spaying stops one thing..reproduction. Yeah it minimizes the risk of certain diseases...but higher the risk of others as well. So its give and take. Take away the risk of testicular cancer, yet nearly triple the risk of bone cancer. Makes no sense. Dogs need their hormones like we needs ours. Its been proven.

Im not trying to start a war...neutering and spaying are opinions and were created by us people based on beliefs..like abortions. I dont care what others chose to do with their dogs. Do I feel sorry for them..yes I do. But then going to you...you feel sorry for my one Belgian for not neutering him. But sorry I beleive in not neutering or spaying. If I could find a vet in my area who did do a non complete spay or neuter like UB does...I would opt for that so they couldnt reproduce yet kept their natural hormones which they need.

I was simply banned because I beleive differently than others...and they wanted to get rid of me before I convinced others it isnt right. Thats why...because my beleifs were different.

EDIT: and I know this because I emailed whomever to appeal the ban because I was giving not one warning before..yet no one responded to me. What a mature forum that was.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,054 Posts
:eyeroll: If partial alterations were common I am sure many people would get them for their pet but they aren't (at least not here because I have NEVER heard of them), so people should consider fixing their pets, if not when a young pup then maybe at the age of 2 after the dog is full grown. I have had many dogs in my life and all were fixed and NONE had any medical issues.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18,680 Posts
You have admited to to yelling at/striking your dog in the name of training him out of him "neuter created" problems.

Iam sorry, I can't speak for the health stuff...but the neuter is not to blame for the behavior issues. You and your training methods are. No matter how many times you deny it, it doesn't make it less true. You have proven here over and over to be a volatile person and no doubt your dog feels that.

Did you even look at all the resources I provided you ? I spent several hours coming up with training solutions for you that you disreguarded. I find it impossible to believe that you did look at them, as you asked no further questions.


I also find it odd that you claim to have spent $10,000 on a dog (where does a 20 som'thing year old GET that) but yet don't have $300 to have this one xrayed?

If your "ill ship em to you if you want him" offer still stands I will gladly take him and have no issues with him.

Do not worry about no warnings here, as you have already had two. Once again, its not your opinion.. its you stating opinion as FACT that you need to watch out for, you blaming the falling sky on a neuter cannot be proved as fact, so don't present it that way and expect everyone to agree with you.



Dog | Forum | Rocks!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18,680 Posts
:eyeroll: If partial alterations were common I am sure many people would get them for their pet but they aren't (at least not here because I have NEVER heard of them), so people should consider fixing their pets, if not when a young pup then maybe at the age of 2 after the dog is full grown. I have had many dogs in my life and all were fixed and NONE had any medical issues.

Iam on my 6th altered dog and any medical issues are not related to the altering (birth defects) so I have had good experiences so far.

as far as temprament/behavior issues...they all know what is expected of them and act accordingly...I have no doubt that they might become obnoxious in inexperieced hands....

They did an experiment where they took novices and trainers and gave them dogs that were both already trained ( to competition levels) and no training at all...

The trained dogs fell apart and acted up with the novices

The untrained dogs calmed down and behaved with the trainers.

This shows that there is ALOT of nuture involved when it comes to behavior.

I am completely being honest when I say I don't know/care about the medical pro/cons of altering...I am personally not in a position to make the choice anyway as I rescue my dogs and they legally have to be altered when I take them home :)



Dog | Forum | Rocks!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,054 Posts
Iam on my 6th altered dog and any medical issues are not related to the altering (birth defects)

as far as temprament/behavior issues...they all know what is expected of them and act accordingly...I have no doubt that they might become obnoxious in inexperieced hands....

They did an experiment where they took novices and trainers and gave them dogs that were both already trained and no training at all...

The trained dogs fell apart and acted up with the novices

The untrained dogs calmed down and behaved with the trainers.

This shows that there is ALOT of nuture involved when it comes to behavior.

I am completely being honest when I say I don't know/care about the medical pro/cons of altering...I am personally not in a position to make the choice anyway as I rescue my dogs and they legally have to be altered when I take them home :)
I agree, we neutered Harvick, spayed Wendy and will neuter Glacier. Tinkerbell and Peyton came altered.

I have seen pyometra and its horrible and there is no reason a dog should go through this.

I would actually like to see specific cases and the documents from the vet saying neutering caused this and that and another. I do not trust personal opinion sites, I can post that I have been abducted my aliens when in reality I have not... If someone can post actual documents from vets, the cases including the breed, the age, etc etc not just "this one dog got neutered and it developed allergies".
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18,680 Posts
I would actually like to see specific cases and the documents from the vet saying neutering caused this and that and another. I do not trust personal opinion sites, I can post that I have been abducted my aliens when in reality I have not... If someone can post actual documents from vets, the cases including the breed, the age, etc etc not just "this one dog got neutered and it developed allergies".
as would I.


Kiwis uterus prolapsed as a young puppy (3 months) and had to be spayed.

So I now have two pediatric spay/neuters in my care. (which are the anti christ of all altering) ..it will be interesting to see in ten years what issues they will/will not develop. Chili has puppy mange which is of course unrelated. Kiwi has MILD allergies but that is par for the course for the breed she is.

I also have a "spayed as a senior after a few litters" dog...and that dog has a mammory tumor. But the vets say its harmless.

Honestly the "opps" litters worry me more than "my dog might get allergies" my dogs are poorly bred anyway, so there is no way to say the breeding isn't the cause of these things. At least in my case.

I'd love to be able to blame Kiwis skin tags, or Tippys fear on altering...because those things came after the altering....but its just not plausible.



Dog | Forum | Rocks!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,054 Posts
When do you feel is the right time to neuter? We are getting Glacier neutered for free through the Maddies Project but I don't want to neuter him till around 7-8 months earliest
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18,680 Posts
When do you feel is the right time to neuter? We are getting Glacier neutered for free through the Maddies Project but I don't want to neuter him till around 7-8 months earliest

if I had a male pit I would wait until hes done growing, personally...whenever that may be (probably a year or so). With a smaller breed I would do it earlier.

One of my male cats (the only pet not from a shelter) I waited until he was just over a year old to get him done.



Dog | Forum | Rocks!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,054 Posts
I want to wait until he is full grown too. Will have to discuss it with the bf. He is afraid the fund is going to run out of money but I figure if they do then he can wait until I am done with school and get my career. Id rather him, being a bully breed, be full grown.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
19 Posts
They say for medium-large breeds that 18-24 months is the usual time that the growth plates will close, and it's best to wait until the growth plates close to neuter. :) Not sure if you're able to wait that long, but that is just what I would do if I were in the situation.

There are actually alot of veterinary documented reports on the internet about the ill effects of spaying/neutering (of course, there are the same for good effects as well). When we mess around with hormones there are always going to be problems, whether we notice them or not. Of course we mess around with hormones without even realising it -- through what we feed our dogs, the conditons they live in, the chemicals in their environment, etc. It's just one other thing to consider in the scheme of things -- we've already done our job by taking away natural selection, feeding processed food, allowing the dog to live and eat out of a world of chemicals, exposing them to dangerous vaccinations and pesticides, etc. Of course we can say we've done all of this and not seen any bad effects, our dogs look perfectly healthy.. but frankly we just don't have the latter to compare them to anymore, our dogs are not reaching their full potential whether we neuter them or not. So, some of us choose to minimize any changes. It's not a big deal in the scheme of the world, it's just a personal decision. I always say, I don't vaccinate -- I use nosodes. But I'm thankful for the other people that DO vaccinate, because even though I don't believe in doing it to my own dogs, atleast when their dogs shed the disease after being recently vaccinated my dogs constantly build up an immunity.

k9capture -- what variety of Belgian do you have? I'm curious as to where you got it -- I try to avoid lines that show such drastic change after surgeries. Though many dogs will exhibit poorer immune function (ie cause of allergies) after hormone removal, it could have been the exposure to the anesthetic as well, and anesthesia sensitivity is a major problem in our breed due to them having such a low fat to muscle ratio (our dogs are very similar to sighthounds in this manner).
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,054 Posts
They say for medium-large breeds that 18-24 months is the usual time that the growth plates will close, and it's best to wait until the growth plates close to neuter. :) Not sure if you're able to wait that long, but that is just what I would do if I were in the situation.

There are actually alot of veterinary documented reports on the internet about the ill effects of spaying/neutering (of course, there are the same for good effects as well). When we mess around with hormones there are always going to be problems, whether we notice them or not. Of course we mess around with hormones without even realising it -- through what we feed our dogs, the conditons they live in, the chemicals in their environment, etc. It's just one other thing to consider in the scheme of things -- we've already done our job by taking away natural selection, feeding processed food, allowing the dog to live and eat out of a world of chemicals, exposing them to dangerous vaccinations and pesticides, etc. Of course we can say we've done all of this and not seen any bad effects, our dogs look perfectly healthy.. but frankly we just don't have the latter to compare them to anymore, our dogs are not reaching their full potential whether we neuter them or not. So, some of us choose to minimize any changes. It's not a big deal in the scheme of the world, it's just a personal decision. I always say, I don't vaccinate -- I use nosodes. But I'm thankful for the other people that DO vaccinate, because even though I don't believe in doing it to my own dogs, atleast when their dogs shed the disease after being recently vaccinated my dogs constantly build up an immunity.

k9capture -- what variety of Belgian do you have? I'm curious as to where you got it -- I try to avoid lines that show such drastic change after surgeries. Though many dogs will exhibit poorer immune function (ie cause of allergies) after hormone removal, it could have been the exposure to the anesthetic as well, and anesthesia sensitivity is a major problem in our breed due to them having such a low fat to muscle ratio (our dogs are very similar to sighthounds in this manner).
I have to apologize for my first post in re. to you...I LOVE the professional manner in which you talk. Thank you for this post it is very informative and actually repeats some of what I believe, we have already removed these animals from the natural scheme of things, some with positive results some with negative and some with both. It also is aparent that articles are going to say different things on the net so it is hard to get an exact answer.

I vaccinate my dogs due to the high risk of Parvo around here, especially just being a mile or two away from a huge reservation area (they DO NOT vaccinate, alter, nor confine their pets and don't "have to"). Since hearing that dogs keep the immunity in their system longer than 1 yr I will be switching to titers rather than vaccinate yearly.

I think we will wait to neuter our pit
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
12,054 Posts
Oh one thing I forgot to mention, it is very common here in my state to alter your pet asap (typically 6 months, some breeds vets recommend 12 months) because the county charges a higher fee for a rabies tag (which doesn't do CRAP in the first place). So we will be paying a higher fee to have him registered (again for no reason LOL sorry I cannot stress it enough) but can deal with that.
 

·
Banned
Joined
·
32 Posts
You have admited to to yelling at/striking your dog in the name of training him out of him "neuter created" problems.

Iam sorry, I can't speak for the health stuff...but the neuter is not to blame for the behavior issues. You and your training methods are. No matter how many times you deny it, it doesn't make it less true. You have proven here over and over to be a volatile person and no doubt your dog feels that.

Did you even look at all the resources I provided you ? I spent several hours coming up with training solutions for you that you disreguarded. I find it impossible to believe that you did look at them, as you asked no further questions.


I also find it odd that you claim to have spent $10,000 on a dog (where does a 20 som'thing year old GET that) but yet don't have $300 to have this one xrayed?

If your "ill ship em to you if you want him" offer still stands I will gladly take him and have no issues with him.

Do not worry about no warnings here, as you have already had two. Once again, its not your opinion.. its you stating opinion as FACT that you need to watch out for, you blaming the falling sky on a neuter cannot be proved as fact, so don't present it that way and expect everyone to agree with you.
Okay where did I ever admit to beating my dog? I dont beat dogs. YOU think my dogs issues are not related to the neuter cause you have yourself so convinced that neutering is the best and never caused health issues. My training methods were NEVER a problem until AFTER his neuter. I however believe otherwise.

As for spending 10,000 on a dog..that ya know if you thought about could be why I dont have much money now. In the thread that you have closed because my opinions are clearly different, it did I believe say that I applied for a credit card. I did get approved for $2,000...how? Who knows but what matters is the money is there for an emergency like the other card was. I did bring him to the vet..but that doesnt really matter now.

Yes I did happen to read through the links you sent me, why I havent gotten back to you is because of a few personal issues as well as you constantly telling me my dogs problems are not because of his neuter. When it should be dropped. I truly believe it is because of his issues. My other pup I had was trained using the same methods as this guy and was left intact and sired a couple of litters and was perfectly fine.

Im not stating it as a fact. You are, you are stating as a fact that his issues could not even remotely be caused by his neuter. Im only believing what I read on the internet. Spaying and Neutering has more negative affects than positive and thats my opinion. Im not saying its a fact. Where did I get two warnings? I never recieved anything in my inbox saying Warning?

Also does it matter my age? you know how many people have family die and inherit money (according to some it was for the better), win the lottery, come from a whealthy family that they no longer talk to...doesnt matter my age. Period. I saw on the news a 19 year old who was a millionaire.

I wont be shipping him to anyone, as I told Pawsaddict before she insulted me was that "the training techniques are working and that I would continue them" whether you believe it or not is up to you. I notice and improvement in his behavior.

As for being volitile I am not, it may sound like I am but this is how I am all the time. You are reading my text and interprating it the wrong way. Sorry. Im not even yelling. If I was yelling and screaming I would of told everyone to "you know what" off a looong time ago. I can be civil.

You offer me help and turn around and tell me you dont think im doing it..well what do you want from me..to start video taping me training my dog? Ive spend hours reading through info on clicker training and went out and bought one. I even brought my dog to the vet for e rays...hes recovering from being sedated very well if you want to know. No matter how hard you tell me his issues is because of me I will never believe it..period. So shoudl I be at fault because im not saying "yes crio your right about his behavoir" no. I should not be faulted because of that. I have my views and you have yours..should I not be able to own a dog because I dont believe in something you do?

Uniquity Belgians...I will pm you the info about my pup
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18,680 Posts
I never said you beat your dogs.

You however have treatened to euthanize yours in order to get attention.

Your thread was closed because you could not behave yourself.

Iam done feeding the troll. Please get your kicks elsewhere.


Iam closing this.



Dog | Forum | Rocks!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
18,680 Posts
Iam reopening this in light of new info

Yahoo! Canada Answers - Question About Neutering?


Ok...I want to know if I am able to give my dog a shower..he was neutered 1 week ago today....I don't want to...but he smells so bad I gag when I go near him. I was told it is the anesthetic that makes him smell. It is getting on my furniture....it's pretty gross.

Also...he is a 12 month old German Shepherd. I am against neutering for my own reasons. I asked the vet IF i got him neutered I am having these problems....I listed the problems which were he always has to have the last word, objectively bites me when I correct him, the word come...goes in one ear and out the other....and all he wants to do is sniff...plus he humps every dog..male or femail..doesn't matter...plus he likes my leg...my vets EXACT words were "these issues will stop immediatly after he is neutered". Well I got him neutered and they haven't stopped...infact they gotton worse. I have already forked out $500 for training for this dog and about $600 in vet bills over the last year alone. What can I do about this...cause I didn't neuter him to "make him a better pet" or help the over population....I neutered him because my vet told me the list of problems would stop.

Please no rude answers because I have my own reasons for not agreeing with neutering/spaying.
Your dog had the issues before the neuter by your own admission..You also didn't spend $10,000 on trainers...you spent $500, thats quite an exageration if you ask me. Your dog bites you because hes terrified of you and your "corrections". If you are going to make claims you shouldnt lie about them because everything you say on the internet is traceable.

Iam posting this, not to demonize you...but because I believe in the power of being truthful. I don't understand why you wanted to scare people away from neutering by making up a bogus story. Really wierd IMO.

I am sorry your vet lied to you. Though Iam unsure if that story is credible either.



Dog | Forum | Rocks!
 
61 - 80 of 86 Posts
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top