Thoughts on Shock Collar training?

6763 Views 38 Replies 19 Participants Last post by wideturn, May 9, 2016

BekahBexxs

Discussion Starter · Apr 29, 2016

My one year old Boston Terrier is the sweetest little guy in the world. However, he barks, growls and screams when he see's new people and other dogs.

We live in an apartment complex and seeing a person or another dog distracts him from going potty and he is already a picky pottier (he has to have THEE best spot before going). At this point, he will growl, bark or loose focus and we have to try again in an hour and hope no one is around. At the same time, it's embarrassing to take him out on public walks because he does the same thing, he will scream the entire walk because of the people and dogs around us.

At the same time, we take him to a Dog Day care during the week and they have told me that he will instigate the barking and aggressive behavior when new people and other dogs are around. If he is outside in a group of dogs, he's fine but when they are away from him and he sees them, he freaks out. They told me they had to give him a little spank because he would start barking at big dogs and he could get himself hurt.

Other than that, when he is at home he rarely barks. I grew up with multiple dogs and my family has never used shock collars. I just have no experience with them or if a shock collar would help his problem.

This is my little guy, Odin

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PoppyKenna

· #2 · Apr 29, 2016

He's most likely afraid and a shock collar will make that much worse, not better.

Do you have any positive behaviorists in your area? I think that would help you the most.

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Aspen726

· #3 · Apr 29, 2016

Unfortunately, the day care did not give you helpful advice with spanking him. Spanking, shock collars, etc... will not help and likely make things worse. As @PoppyKenna says, find a positive behaviorists in your area.

Mods - can we make a "Shock Collar" sticky? I feel like this comes up almost daily now...

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Dawnben

· #4 · Apr 29, 2016

BekahBexxs said:
They told me they had to give him a little spank because he would start barking at big dogs and he could get himself hurt.

Other than that, when he is at home he rarely barks. I grew up with multiple dogs and my family has never used shock collars. I just have no experience with them or if a shock collar would help his problem.

No on the shock collar unless you want to make the problem worse. I would change doggie day cares also. You do not want your dog in a abusive situation. You want to take your dog into a park with people and dogs,but stays far enough away as it takes so he can stay calm. When he sees a person or dog from a distance and stays calm you give him treats. You want him to understand that people + dogs = treats. When he gets comfortable with that distance move closer but do it slowly you don't want him to get over threshold. This will take time but will be worth it in the end. Hear is a videos to help also.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JY7JrteQBOQ

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PipsMom

· #5 · Apr 29, 2016

I agree with the use of a skilled positive-reinforcement based trainer or behaviorist. I adopted an extremely fearful, human reactive, large dog reactive terrier mix from the shelter at the end of August 2015. I am using positive methods when I work with her and she's really blossomed.

Yesterday night, she successfully met with a calm-tempered large basset hound mix and was very friendly with him.

You want to be careful about the day care using spanking on him because it can cause him to be wary of hands.

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jclark343

· #6 · Apr 29, 2016

Holy cow you were considering putting a shock collar on that little guy? Horrible idea. Search out a Positive reinforcement trainer or behaviorist. Anyone that would suggest shock collars, spanking, correction collars (chain or prong), or any form of training that causes pain is NOT a positive trainer. And you should probably find one like yesterday.

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BekahBexxs

Discussion Starter · #7 · Apr 29, 2016

Correction.

"I would change doggie day cares also. You do not want your dog in a abusive situation".

Let me just clarify that my dog is not in an abusive situation. They spoil him more than any other dog at that daycare with out a doubt. I am fully content that if he is acting naughty or instigating problems with other dogs that he should be swatted. I'm sure no dog day care that cares as much about dogs as mine, would ever "abuse" one.

BekahBexxs

Discussion Starter · #8 · Apr 29, 2016

Let me just clarify that my dog is not in an abusive situation. They spoil him more than any other dog at that daycare with out a doubt. I am fully content that if he is acting naughty or instigating problems with other dogs that he should be swatted. I'm sure no dog day care that cares as much about dogs as mine, would ever "abuse" one.

PoppyKenna

· #9 · Apr 29, 2016

BekahBexxs said:
Let me just clarify that my dog is not in an abusive situation. They spoil him more than any other dog at that daycare with out a doubt. I am fully content that if he is acting naughty or instigating problems with other dogs that he should be swatted. I'm sure no dog day care that cares as much about dogs as mine, would ever "abuse" one.

You're looking at it through a lens of him being "naughty".

He's not. He's scared.

What if you were afraid of spiders? Many people are. So say you see a spider. You give a little scream and maybe try to step on it to make it go away. But your friend, spouse, parent, whatever determines your actions are "bad" so they hit you whenever you do this.

Is that appropriate, do you think? Does hitting you in any way help the situation or change how you feel about spiders. It might, actually - negatively. Now you may begin to associate spiders with your fear AND a slap. You may react even more intensely.

I know it's frustrating having a reactive dog, I do. I really think a positive trainer would work wonders.

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newdoggirl

· #10 · Apr 29, 2016

A woman in my area has been working on "look" with her reactive dogs and it seems to be working very well. I'd suggest looking that up and working on it every day if you're not able to hire a professional.

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Dawnben

· #11 · Apr 29, 2016

BekahBexxs said:
"I would change doggie day cares also. You do not want your dog in a abusive situation".

Let me just clarify that my dog is not in an abusive situation. They spoil him more than any other dog at that daycare with out a doubt. I am fully content that if he is acting naughty or instigating problems with other dogs that he should be swatted. I'm sure no dog day care that cares as much about dogs as mine, would ever "abuse" one.

You are on the wrong forum if you think swatting or letting some one else swat you dog is OK.

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Aspen726

· #12 · Apr 29, 2016

BekahBexxs said:
Let me just clarify that my dog is not in an abusive situation. They spoil him more than any other dog at that daycare with out a doubt. I am fully content that if he is acting naughty or instigating problems with other dogs that he should be swatted. I'm sure no dog day care that cares as much about dogs as mine, would ever "abuse" one.

If I ever found out that my dogs daycare had 'swatted' her, I would be through the ROOF! They have zero right to cause physical harm or discomfort to the dogs in their care for being 'naughty'. If the dog is aggressive and harming another dog or person, do whatever you need to do to get control of the situation and then the dog should not be allowed back- I don't think your dog falls in this category. This daycare could be doing mental harm to your dog which could likely cause you problems in the long run.

This is a force free forum. We do not advocate swatting, hitting, shock collars and the like.

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DriveDog

· #13 · Apr 30, 2016

Certain corrections, if not adequate will just put more drive into the dog's default behavior in many situations, like throwing gas on the fire. If you are going to use physical corrections, choose them wisely and effectively.

Since I try my best to abide by the rules of this force free, all positive forum, you might try other protocols which have yielded some results with desensitizing, counter-conditioning and other associated methods. I think what one needs to do first and foremost is perform your due diligence as far as hiring a trainer and almost equally important is discover the level of the modification required.

No sense in modifying a behavior at a level which isn't necessary. A few evaluations might be a good thing.

Hopefully, you have a lot of options and competent instructors which you can select from in your area.

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Foxhunter

· #14 · Apr 30, 2016

The aggression towards other dogs might be fear base but equally it could be just plan aggression, unless seen it is impossible to say.

A leash correction and a firm "NO!" to distract him.

Like Drive Dog, I find all this positive reinforcement tedious, I do not believe in beating any animal but a smack or a finger poke is going to do nothing more than distract them.

I all with a dog whose owner trains with positive methods, dog, now 2 years still pulls on the leash, jumps up at people and will ignore recall in the high pitch voice if there is a distraction. The other day he was making to a lane and she kept calling him to no avail, one holler from me in the deep command voice and he returned - not to her but to me.

PipsMom

· #15 · Apr 30, 2016

I use positive methods on my dog and my guinea pigs as well as my client's dogs.

My dog does not pull on the leash. She does not randomly jump up at people. She comes when called. She has a beautiful heel. She can be barking at something like a small animal and if I recall her in a normal voice (no need for a deep command voice, lol) she will stop everything she's doing to come to me.

My guinea pigs are well-trained, comfortable as I do things like clip their nails, come when called, and are potty trained.

I do not find R+ training tedious. It really comes down to the skill of a trainer, just the same as it does for any other method.

It's just that good training is good training, no matter the method.

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Kyllobernese

· #16 · Apr 30, 2016

Just because a person's dog is not well trained, you cannot blame the way they are trained as being the reason. I could find just as many dogs trained being poked or smacked that are not well trained.

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Chas

· #17 · Apr 30, 2016 (Edited)

Bad training with positive reinforcement: dog doesn't respond.

Bad training with negative reinforcement: way more chance of a person reactive result.

Since the average person isn't always a good trainer I'm way happier with the average person using positive reinforcement.

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Gnostic Dog

· #18 · Apr 30, 2016

Chas said:
Bad training with positive reinforcement: dog doesn't respond.

Bad training with negative reinforcement: way more chance of a person reactive result.

Since the average person isn't always a good trainer I'm way happier with the average person using positive reinforcement.

Just to be clear here, positive reinforcement just means something is added and negative reinforcement means something is taken away. It doesn't mean the dog is having a positive experience.

The average person has a hard time because it isn't a simple training method when you have to grasp concepts like, fixed ratio, continuous ratio, fixed interval, variable interval, variable ratio, differential reinforcement of incompatible behavior, differential reinforcement of other behavior, differential reinforcement of low response rate, differential reinforcement of high rate......

Ever wondered how dogs prior to 1960s, or really the 1980s when dog training as we know it now started to really take hold, were generally well-behaved and quite able to function in human society? Most of them were graduates of the Old McDonald Institute of Canine Good Behavior. I know all the dogs I grew up with were, no one consciously "trained" them. Well except for Pepe the Minature Poodle who we taught to "dance", which is a pretty easy thing for a poodle to do!

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Chas

· #19 · Apr 30, 2016 (Edited)

Hmm maybe I should have said force free and forceful?

I'm definitely no expert so I haven't come across any of those terms. I tend to be a bit intuitive in my training if I like the behavior it gets rewarded, if I don't it like it, it gets ignored and I find a way of reducing the opportunity for it to happen. Often this isn't during any structured training time, I have toys and food on me at all times. I think if I used forceful methods Echo would have no idea what was expected because my reaction time is pretty slow.

I can't really comment on previous times except I've been told that in my grandparent's day if a dog misbehaved seriously it was shot... That would tend to reduce the number of 'bad' dogs. Though anecdotal evidence isn't great.

Gnostic Dog

· #20 · Apr 30, 2016

Chas said:
I can't really comment on previous times except I've been told that in my grandparent's day if a dog misbehaved seriously it was shot... That would tend to reduce the number of 'bad' dogs. Though anecdotal evidence isn't great.

Given the vast number of dogs today with behavioral issues, it makes me wonder how the species survived if all badly behaved dogs in the past were shot. Did they shoot dogs with dog aggression, or perhaps dogs with separation anxiety that destroyed much of the house with their chewing?

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