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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Sorry this is so long :eek:

So me and my partner are *considering* adding a third pup to our family, but probably not until next summer at the earliest. It’s okay to start thinking / possibly planning early right?! :D

Background:
We have two dogs, both rescues. Kasper is a 5 year old BC x ESS, Zoey is an almost 3 year old SBT. Kasper RG toys (and to some extent food) from other dogs, so we only play with toys one-on-one. He doesn't do more than growl, and I don't have a problem with that...if I drop food, they are fine (trained to leave it) and I can release Zoey to get it and Kasper will wait. Likewise if one finds a toy, there's no issues either.

We have a small fenced garden. The dogs get 1 - 2 hours walking a day, separately, on a longline as we are surrounded by fields with livestock. We recently discovered a secure field you can rent where the dogs can run off lead, work on training etc which we plan on doing once every 2 weeks. Kasper and Zoey love training, they know most the basics and lots of ‘fun’ tricks, and altogether know 30+ cues each. They get several daily training sessions and play. Both our dogs are crated when we are out, and aren’t left alone longer than 5 hours a day (although Zoey sleeps in her crate overnight too).

What we want from a next dog:
We want a dog that isn’t too active in the house and can chill, but is able to go on (and enjoy) substantial sized walks. Dogs that can cope with UK weather, including warm days (would prefer no brachy breeds). A dog that is small enough to be easily taken on public transport and car journeys (eg. lap-size). Not an independant dog.

- Size: small dog. I really want a tiny breed, but realistically a very small dog (especially a puppy) would probably be too delicate for our household. So either a sturdy small breed, or a light small-medium breed. We’re not reeeally wanting to go above 10kg :)
Exercise: Not too high energy, but enjoys walks, exploring and running. Our ideal would be to give the dog about an hour of walking a day, with additional training and play.
Grooming: Would prefer no longhaired breeds, but we don’t mind regular (including daily) grooming. Low shedding would be nice, but not necessary.
Health: A breed with no major health concerns would be brilliant.

Extra things to mention:

- Kasper and Zoey love to rough ‘n’ tumble, so ideally a dog who could enjoy this play if they wanted to once they were full-size would be good.
- We want a pretty easygoing breed...not madly energetic, a breed that is known to be fairly docile and friendly would be awesome - I know socialisation is extremely important and dogs of the same breed vary immensely, but in general :p
- We aren’t keen on very vocal breeds. I know this is hard to predict (Kasper is a barker, Zoey the Staffy never barks!) but a less vocal breed would be preferred!
- We do have other pets and often foster hamsters / mice. However prey drive isn’t too much of a worry as we keep our pets in secure cages, in different rooms, and our dogs are crated when we handle them...Kasper has high prey drive so we’ve just gotten used to this :)

Breeds we love:

Chihuahua; I love Chi’s :) Unfortunately I think they are way too small to live happily with Kasp and Zo.
Papillon; I love so much about Papillons...their size, the way they look, their energy. But I think they are too delicate for us, and I’d worry about finding a good breeder.
Whippet; on the larger end, but we have always loved the breed. I worry that they are a bit fragile (?), although Kasper used to run and wrestle with two Whippets and they all had a great time. Not sure if a Whippet is a bit too big for what we want though? I like that Whippets are usually couch potatoes but also love exercise, although a Whippet rescue’s site did say they need free-running in a large secure area daily - thoughts?
Toy Poodle; is a Toy too small, too delicate?
Miniature Poodle; what size is a Miniature Poodle (I’ve read a lot of variants!) what’s a similar breed size-wise so I can compare? I like the sound of Poodles, their intelligence and ‘fun’, but I’ve never really met any in person.
Bedlington; we’ve met a few Beddies and they seem awesome! From what I’ve read they’re on the calmer end of the Terriers, but they are active and adorable :)

We are currently mainly researching Whippets, Bedlingtons and Poodles of varying sizes.

Ideally we want to buy a puppy from a good breeder - but how do I find one? What do I search for in order to find a breeder, do they have websites? (We’re in the UK) At the moment I just want to find some breeders so I can quiz them about if their breed would suit us, and possibly meet some dogs of the breeds I like so I can get used to size, energy etc.

We think we want a puppy ideally, but could possibly stretch to 10 - 12 months for the right dog. Although we would like a breeder pup, rescue dogs will also be considered. We are involved with one of the rescues (there are two nearby) and they very very rarely have puppies in, and the pups they have are usually larger bully mixes. In the six years I have known the rescue the only small breeds they reliably have are JRT; I have seen a handful of other little dogs in that time (Shih’s, a Westie, a few Chi crosses and two sibling Pug x Collies).

I love mixed breeds but really we would like a breeder pup so that we can make sure the parents are health tested, meet the mum etc and so that we can do the socialisation from scratch.

We have a lot of things to think about, consider and research. None of this is definite, we could very much just decide to keep Kasper and Zoey as our only dogs...but this is fun so fire away! Any other breed ideas to throw at us? :D
 

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Well I will always vote for poodles, but since you have a long time to decide look into the bichon family too. The Bichon frise, havanese, lowchen, coton de tulear...

These are in my experience small enough to travel easily but not as delicate as the papillon and chis. Spot (very energetic lab x bc) used to play with bichons all the time, very energetically without any problem.

The size of poodles are tricky, you can look at the KC breed standards online to see the official guidelines but in practice you have miniature poodles the size of toy poodles and reverse (although if the parents are mini the pups are reg as mini regardless of size).

You can probably find an oversized toy which would be sturdier enough you can also end up with a miniature nearly the size of a standard. Keep in mind that the size of the puppy is not always a good indicator. Askur (yorkie) was the runt he is now considered oversized as an adult. Also in my experience the little ones aren´t as delicate as people think. I know a papillon who hikes in the icelandic mountains.

what would be a bigger inconvenience? having a dog whose too small and delicate so you have to be super careful when it plays with zoey and jasper? or it being too big making public transport a bit tricky?
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks for replying :)

Do you happen to know any reliable sites where I can read about Poodle grooming, general personality etc?

Oh hey I hadn't even thought of the Havanese! I really didn't used to be a small dog person haha, so I can only think of the more obvious breeds. Will deffo look into them :)

I have read sooo many size differences for Poodles!! I think I need to meet some in person, but I don't know how...I'd like to find a breeder, and go see their dogs and talk about the breed, but not sure they'd be willing to do that unless I 100% wanted one of their dogs...

I worry with a small breed that, even as an adult, if Kasper and Zoey are tearing around and the little one tries to join in and gets slammed too hard he'll get really hurt. I'd feel sad if we had a third dog that couldn't play with them if he wanted to...wouldn't he feel left out?? :confused:

As for the public transport, I would just love to maybe have a dog we could take places and that could sit on my lap easily...Kasper and Zoey do great in the car, but I don't like taking Zoey on public transport even though she *could* fit on my lap because she's a Staffy (there's a lot of stigma here) and if she even jumped up to say hi it could go wrong. Kasper doesn't like strangers (he's loads better than he used to be, he can greet strangers out on walks now and also does fine in taxis) but trains and buses are not ideal and stress him out. It would be fun to have a dog who could go on trips with us instead of always having to rely on nearby walks :)
 

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Askur´s best friend is an oversized labrador who he has played with since he was 11 weeks old, he regularly plays with a juvenile Rottweiler and played all weekend with a standard poodle who I might be petsitting this september (I am soo in love with that spoo).

Observing them in play I have realised that as long as all the dogs involved big and small are well socialised and have ´doggy manners´there usually isnt a problem. When the big dogs are being too rough the smaller one tells them through body language or shrieking and the big ones back off. My sister´s beagle once did a beagle howl next to askur who got really scared from it. The beagle has refused to howl near Askur ever since, even if you command him to.

Ill try to upload a video of Askur and his friend playing together its amasing to watch but at least here is a picture of the besties.
 

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I vote for Poodles! For no reason other than I really want a Standard Poodle and I'd like to live vicariously through you! :)

Honestly, from your posts, you seem like a thorough and responsible pup parent. I think you'd be great for any dog that you get. Are you set on using a breeder or would you consider another rescue?

My top breeds are (in case you haven't considered any of these):
Border Collie
Aussie
Lab
Golden Retriever
Rhodesian Ridgeback
Poodle
Pitbull

(In no particular order) :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Omb they are both beautiful!! :D

When Zoey was a tiny puppy, after Kasper's initial "wth is that get it away?!" he was excellent with her...he handicapped himself by laying down so she could play, he was gentle etc. He has a fair bit of experience with small dogs. Zoey is also good with puppies, and if she accidentally hurts another dog she really worries haha...she was playing with Kasper a few days ago and made him yelp, and she leapt away and 'apologised'...lip licking, very slow and gentle, so sweet :)

There is hope for my big oafs yet then!!

Just reading about Lowchens now...thanks so much for the breed suggestions :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #7 ·
Oops cross-post Aspen726! :)

Thank you for the positive words, that's a lovely thing to say. Poodles are very high up on our list...me and my partner each made a list away from each other of small(er) dog breeds that we both liked, and Poodle was one of the breeds that ranked very highly for us both.

We would consider a rescue, but I think we'd be quite picky haha! We've never used a breeder before, but I like the idea of health testing, being able to meet the parents and being able to quiz the breeder about the breed in general...all added bonuses! :p

Oh I really want a BC pup!! I love bully breeds too :) That's a way away though, but a blue merle BC omb *drools* :D

The rescue I know of around here isn't...great. Not in the way they treat the dogs or the screening the dogs go through. Being a volunteer there is an added bonus because any dog we did think was suitable we could walk the dog ourselves, and really get to know them. Rescues are definitely not ruled out!
 

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I also think that you seem like an extremely dedicated, loving pet parent, so any dog that winds up in your home is destined to have a great, happy life. My dog would be next level happy with me if we rented a field for him! I wish we had something like that around here!
I love Poodles, I think they are super cute, and so smart. Whenever I think of Poodles on the dog forum I think of @Naira , so I'm sure there is helpful grooming, health test etc. to be gained from that resource.

I guess the thing about Chi's and Whippets is that I don't think they handle the cold very well. All the very short haired dogs like that I've met here require jackets and boots. I do live in Canada, but I think it gets decently cold in the UK as well?

The other Purebred dogs I was thinking about were:
Shetland Sheepdog (although, they do have long hair, and can be barkers)
Corgi (I like both Pembroke and Cardigan, but there are a few health issues to be mindful of like HD)
I also think a wide variety of terriers could suit your needs, but again they are a little bit vocal, and definitely a tad independent. (at least the ones I've met!)
 
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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Thank you so much :) The main reason we are waiting so long before potentially bringing a puppy home is because we want the weather to be warmer haha...when we adopted Zoey it was January and socialising her was so much harder because it was the middle of winter! Before she was vaccinated we carried her around wrapped in a blanket, so she could get used to people, traffic etc...first week we didn't see anyone because it was so cold and snowy!

For the field, I had searched everywhere and couldn't find a field to rent...I even emailed dog walkers and trainers! Then I posted a wanted ad, and someone replied saying that a boarding kennels nearby had a field to rent, and it was perfect! Really lucky though as the closest field I could find after that was 45 min drive away, and we don't even drive!!

We did think about Corgi's, but I wasn't sure what they would be like with rough play or if they were a bit chunky for us :D

As for Terriers, what do you think about the Tibetan Terrier (yes, I know it's not actually a Terrier which is...confusing!!) or a Border Terrier? I thought a Border Terrier might be a bit active and might not fit in as easily, but this could be based on my experience with a friend's Border Terrier that wasn't trained or socialised...probably worth researching :)

I brought the dog books downstairs that I could quickly find today, found 14 easily so those are the ones I am browsing haha. Some have breed sections in them, but I've found they don't have most the breeds I am wanting to learn more about, and others are all about choosing a good breeder, puppy basics etc. I found the Before & After Getting Your Puppy one, which I remember being good but *terrifying*...I think there's a bit about inviting people over to your house to watch TV (for socialising the puppy) with the aim of the pup meeting 100 people before they were 3 or 4 months old...I only know four people in this area hahaha! :p

Where we live now there are lots of pubs, shops and pet shops that allow dogs though, so it should be much easier to get a pup out and about than when we brought Zoey home...
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Thanks necro17, I am leaning towards Poodles a LOT.

Today we went to an agricultural show, and not only did lots of people take their dogs but there was a dog show too. I met several of our potential breeds including Tibetan Terriers, Bichon, Whippet, Toy and Miniature Poodles AND even a Bedlington Terrier!! :D

So yeah, that was awesome :) Felt bad chasing after the owners asking about their dogs, but they all seemed really happy to talk to us.

I met *counts* six Poodles, two Toy and the rest Miniature, ranging from 9 months old to 12 years! All the Poodle owners were very enthusiastic and positive about the breed. The dogs were all very happy, friendly and mellow. The owner who had two Toy Poodles, one was small and the other was the size of a Miniature, so I'd need to talk to any breeder about probable height.

The Bedlington was lovely, and her owner also had BC's so was able to compare the Bedlington to them in terms of training and energy levels.

There were lots of Whippets, so I had a chat to some of their owners too.

Fun day...we're loving the Poodles :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
(Sorry for double posting, but I forgot a breed and it's too late to edit >__< )

We also saw a ton of Border Terriers, and we really really liked them. We saw varying ages (including a 4 month old puppy!) and they were another breed that came strongly recommended. They seemed the perfect size to us, and I like their energy levels. Only concern is that they are a bit too 'Terriery' for us...but we are looking them up too :)
 

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Poodles are the best, have you thought about the chinese crested? remember they come in fluffy too. I think we have a very similar criteria for breeds :D
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I saw a couple of them at the show too :) I think they're a little too small for what we're wanting, but I didn't know they could be fluffy until I saw them the other day! Still probably worth looking into, as I know virtually nothing about their energy level or grooming needs...I think I'm just having fun getting to know the little breeds more!! :D
 

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Of course I vote for a poodle. ? A bichon wouldn't be a bad choice either.

In your case I would go with a toy poodle and not a mini. "Mini" poodles are misleading...they are definitely not between the sizes of a toy and a standard. I consider them to be small dogs.

However, though they are small...they sometimes aren't small enough to be as portable as toy poodles when it comes to traveling (specifically airplanes).

I have a standard poodle and will continue to have standard poodles as companions but I've had a toy and a mini. One day I hope to have a toy again!
 

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I would be happy to answer any questions that you have...I taught myself how to groom and it's so much easier/cost effective.
 
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