[spotsonofbun]

As many here know I am doing research and preparing for getting a dog in 1 - 3 years time. Im rather specific on breeds not that I don't want a mix I just want a right mix. Im looking for a small apartment friendly dog preferably not a puppy. This means that my list of breeds contains breeds that are not very common in shelters such as Italian Greyhounds and Havanese. Im in the UK by the way.

So I have turned my attention to rescues, mostly breed specific foster based rescues. They look great they often have very detailed description of temperament and needs and thats very helpful.

However I have come across what I fear is a legal issue. A poodle rescue called poodles in need specifically say that the microchip must always be registered with them. I understand the reason behind it. A lot of owners don't update the information when they move and the microchip is useless if the dog is found. They also say that incase of a rehome situations the dog must be returned to them. If the dogs microchip is registered to them then if the dog ends in a shelter they will know.

Fairly reasonable. Except Im the sort of person who likes to think of every scenario possible.

My issues with this are:
1. I need a pet passport to travel within the EU with my dog, that passport includes a microchip so the border officials can match the documents to the dog. Can I do that if I am not the registered owner on the chip or will they accuse me of poodle theft. Can I even get a pet passport if the chip isn't registered to me?

2. I can't promise to stay in the UK forever but where I go the dog goes. If I move back to my home country and the dog comes with me and gets lost having it registered to a rescue in England is useless.

3. If the dog gets lost (I will do everything in my power to prevent that but you never know) Can the rescue just decide that I am incompetent and take my dog away?

4. If I die can the rescue actually take the dog from my grieving (im assuming my family and friends would be a bit sad) family. My mother already treats my sister's Beagle like its her grandchild. Seriously she sends him christmas presents.

They weren't specific on the issue. A Italian Greyhound rescue actually said on their website that the dog would ALWAYS be legally theirs. The poodle rescue did not say so precisely.

I know that their intentions are good but I don't like the thought that a random stranger could possibly take my dog away because of THIERS idea of proper care. I know a lot here have read my other posts and know that I know the basics at least of caring for a dog. It will never be loose in inappropriate or dangerous areas, it will be trained properly with PR and will have good food and vet care. And hugs lots and lots of hugs and kisses.

I don't like the thought that the dog might not be legally mine. Just because people rescue dogs does not make them automatically good and sensible people.

It sort of sounds like I am renting a dog not adopting.

Would it actually be safer to answer to those online ads from people rehoming dogs themselves and not through rescues?

Sorry for the long ranting but I have never adopted a dog from a rescue and Im confused.

 

[FailedSlacker]

I'd suggest talking to the rescue and possibly get involved in their activities. A lot of rescues put stuff like that in to scare away the less-than-suitable owners.

The rescue I fostered for had a rule that all puppies get spayed at 6 months and they can take the puppy away if they aren't. Getting an extension for Bern was as easy as me asking since they were familiar with me.

 

[pawzaddict]

I wonder if they aren't saying "don't change the chip registration" rather they are saying "the chip will always come back to us as a shelter just an FYI". I say this because we have a similar "return TO US" policy because many times people drop the dog off at county or humane, where slip ups sadly happen and animals are euthanized. If a shelter sans a chip that comes back to us then we go get the animal out if there.

Note that a chip shows you as the owner, just the shelter is who implanted the chip. Make sense?
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[ruthcatrin]

Ask for clarification from the rescues, but unfortunetly nothing your describing is out of the ordinary for a rescue here in the states. Its one of the big gripes about alot of rescues. And I have to admit that I agree in alot of ways, its my dog, not their's. I don't mind signing a contract stating that if I ever give up the dog I'll return it to them, but giving them extra legal rights when the dog is legally mine always drives me nuts. And no, I'm not renting the dog.....

To be fair I know of quite a few breeders who do the same thing with the microchips though. Any dog that goes out with breeding rights goes out with a microchip that has the breeder's info. Again I don't totally agree, but their reasoning (trying to reduce breed and dump BYBs) makes sense in some ways. On the other hand I also refused to buy a pup from one of said breeders. Apollo's breeder chipped him, but its our info on the chip. I did list her as 2ndary contact though, cause I know she'd move heaven and earth to pull him from a shelter if for some reason we weren't able to.

 

[icemaiden]

How about finding a breeder of your chosen breeds and see if they have a dog for rehoming?
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[jpcrosby]

I wouldn't mind them as a secondary contact, but if I wasn't first I wouldn't take the dog. Sorry but its like adopting a child then finding out you aren't listed as the parent.

 

[Nylanat]

Nyla was chipped by the rescue and they also have a "if you ever can't keep her, you must return her to us only" policy. I don't mind that at all, it's acctually a good policy but they made it a point to tell me to please go online and register the chip with our info...not theirs. I wouldn't be okay with their info on the chip. She's my dog.
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[spotsonofbun]

I was wondering too whether there can be secondary contact on the chip I don't mind that as long as I am registered as the owner. But this is what the poodle rescue say on their website.

Poodles in Need Rescue Adoption Policy strictly states that all micro-chip registration stays in the name of Poodles In Need and will not be transferred to the new owner and if for any reason you are unable to keep any dog for the duration of its life, he/she must be returned to Poodles In Need Rescue.

Also In case of my death or serious injury or illness I would want the dog to go to my mother and I know unless she was incapable to care for it she would like so to.

Would they really remove a dog from grieving relatives?

 

[spotsonofbun]

How about finding a breeder of your chosen breeds and see if they have a dog for rehoming?
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Im going to do that when it gets closer, Im in undogfriendly accommodation right now. I might just buy a puppy (from a responsible breeder KC reg and health tested).

There no shelters and just one rescue in my home country so this is new to me.

To us these are members of our family but in the eyes of the law they are possessions. I am curious as to what the legal position/rights people have that adopt or buy with these contracts are?

 

[icemaiden]

Im going to do that when it gets closer, Im in undogfriendly accommodation right now. I might just buy a puppy (from a responsible breeder KC reg and health tested).

There no shelters and just one rescue in my home country so this is new to me.

To us these are members of our family but in the eyes of the law they are possessions. I am curious as to what the legal position/rights people have that adopt or buy with these contracts are?

If you sign a contract, you are bound by it. So don't sign what you're not happy with.

Re getting a dog from a breeder - many have (adult) dogs that they have kept for showing, breeding etc and then comes a time when they realise the dog is not suitable for either. And even reputable breeders some times have dogs who might be better off in a different home and will then try to find that dog/bitch a new home.

So I would go to Crufts and talk to a few breeders and get to know them, perhaps keep in touch with them and when you're ready for a dog (or puppy) they will be more inclined to let you have one.

 

[Mese]

I got Teddy from a rescue (The Freedom of Spirit Trust for border collies) and he is chipped to them & I also had to sign a form stating he would be returned to them if for any reason I couldnt care for him

It doesnt concern me that this is the case as I quite often send the rescue owner emails and pics of Teddy and I know she does care for each and every border collie that her rescue rehomes
If one were lost the rescue gets actively involved in helping to find that dog , up to and including sending people out to look for the dog , even months later if a sighting is made and reported

It kind of makes me feel good that I know that degree of support is there if it is needed , but I was left in no doubt that Teddy was my dog and not theirs and the chip only stayed in their name because they care so much for the welfare of the dogs that go through their rescue and they didnt want to find out too late that one had been put down because it had got lost or changed hands and the owner hadnt bothered chipping them .... so maybe thats the difference

 

[spotsonofbun]

Mese - yes I can understand the benefits Im just wondering on how strict they are or whether every individual case is considered.

I think maybe because there is a probability that I will move internationally with the dog that having such a close relationship with the rescue will be detrimental rather than beneficial.

Calling a rescue maybe five years after getting the dog and asking THEM whether I can move it with me to Brussels is a bit mad. If I move the registration has to change.

What if the rescue isn't as helpful as yours It scares that they could decide not to return the dog to me if it gets lost.

Also nobody has replied on what happens in case of my death if my relatives are willing to take the dog?

 

[marbear]

I like the suggestion about getting a breeder re-home. My friend got one of her dogs that way...she actually got a littermate to her pup 6 months after the fact. They are sooo happy. Ours rehomes their breed bstock once they are not breeding them if you have experience with them before (like if you have bought one of the pups) but they require spay to turn the dog over to you and you still have in the contract that if you don't want one of their dogs you must return to them, not a shelter/rescue.

 

[crock]

Spots, Have you discussed your concerns with the rescue? That is were I would start. Each one is unique and has their own policies.

Re: the death: What if you ask the rescue if you can have your mom apply for adoption as well as you so that should you die, she is already an approved adopter?

I would also ask them about their chip policy. Ask them if they contact the adopter in the event of the dog being found at a shelter. Ask them if they will automatically deny the adopter return of the dog if it got lost/loose. Etc. If they don't automatically decide you are a bad owner if the dog was found in a shelter, then I wouldn't have an issue with the chip being in their name. Many owners are difficult to get ahold of even if their contact info is UTD.

I also like FS's suggestion of getting involved and Mese's courtesy of sending them updates and photos. To me, that strongly suggests you are commited and reminds them how much the dog means to you. (And it can show them how good a home you are.)

ETA: a breeder rehome is a viable option IMO if you are uncomfortable with the rescue's answers to your questions. I wouldn't pay a cent to anything less than a responsible breeder for a rehome/retiree, and even then, don't feel obligated to take a dog "off their hands" by paying a large sum. In all likelihood you'd be helping them out. The perk is that if they are responsible breeders, you should be getting a pretty healthy dog. (Depending on the breeder, still be prepared for some retraining....)

 

[spotsonofbun]

I think I will go with Marbear's advice I would love to have a well bred dog for the first time in my life. I loved my little bastard mutts more than anything but having a well bred purebred has been my dream ever since my old St Bernard's son became a champion. The St bernard was rehomed to a breeder when my parents went bankrupt when I was 4. The breeder invited us over when our dog's first litter was born. Eight six week old St bernard puppies surrounded me that was the best day of my life

Crock - I guess its not only the technicalities of the contract. I just have a bad feeling about it, Im not going to rule it out I will probably contact the rescue when im in the right situation for a dog. I guess I just feel its a lot of hoops to jump through and a lot of compromises to make for a dog that is probably badly bred (health issues) or mixed with some behavioural issues.

 

[Rain]

Crock beat me to asking it.

Have you talked to the rescue about your concerns. I'd let them know that you could be traveling internationally with your dog and the dog will need a passport, that you wouldn't be comfortable traveling and not having the microchip registered in your name. Would they be alright with them being listed as a secondary contact.

I'd also let them know how much your mom loves dogs, how she treats your siblings dogs and that if anything happens to you she'd love to adopt the dog.

If the rescue can't work with you then look somewhere else for a dog.

Would the rescue be willing to give you the numbers of some people who have adopted from them. You could then ask those people how their experience with the rescue has been.

 

[spotsonofbun]

Im not going to contact them now and say I am looking for a dog in probably 2 to 3 years if everything goes to plan.

Im in a very unsuitable situation right now for a dog. Owning a dog is what I am working towards, its my motivation and the research that I am doing is helping me to heal after losing Nero and Spot.

If I were running a rescue I wouldn't adopt a dog to me right now. I am broke and I live in one room. I don't want them to remember me as the poor immigrant student basically.

Random question can they discriminate against me because I am an immigrant and would be more likely to move abroad?

 

[ruthcatrin]

Random question can they discriminate against me because I am an immigrant and would be more likely to move abroad?

Legally? Maybe, maybe not, it would depend on local laws. In reality, it would depend on the rescue, and would be another question to add to your list for in the future when you're in a better position and are seriously looking.

 

[FailedSlacker]

Fair warning, some breeders have ever more strict re-homing rules than rescues. My mother had to go through multiple home-vists, reference checks and interviews to get Candy.

 

[spotsonofbun]

I think references and home visits are fair more concerned about my legal position after I get the dog.