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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Today the New Jersey Senate heard a wonderful bill that would chop puppy mills off at the knees around here. The bill, S63 would ban the sale of puppies and kittens in stores that do not come from a rescue, as well as ban the sale of "order to ship" puppies from online to residents of NJ.

Any of you who know me on this site know I'm very passionate about the issue of puppy mills and puppy stores. This is because where I live, in NJ, they are an enormous problem. A horrifying amount of people get their puppies from these awful places and support mills. My own Tyrion came from one of these awful stores, and I could make an entire ongoing thread about his medical issues.

I'd also like to make note (because there seems to be some upset about it recently) that I am NOT against responsible, ethical breeders. I am against puppy mills, puppy stores and backyard breeders. I even mention that in my petition. So please sign it and help the cause! :)

https://www.change.org/p/raymond-le...ge&utm_term=des-lg-bing-no_msg&fb_ref=Default
 

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Signed! Here in the UK we have the same problem, we call them puppy farms. The most inhumane places, they need to be brought down! The hell that the dogs live in is horrendous. This has to stop!!!
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
I'm so excited I got about 650 signatures in the first 24 hours and my petition might be brought to the Senate next month if I get enough! =D
 
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This is they same bill as this one right?

http://www.dogforum.com/dog-shows/nj-bill-wont-allow-puppy-sales-267258/

I'm totally against pet stores selling dogs, 100%.

That said the other part about not allowing for dogs to be bought except for via face to face transactions seems like a reason not to support this bill.

When we bought Leia, she was the only one of her litter to be sold face to face. Her litter mates were all put on planes at 8-12wks old. 1 to russia, 1 to mexico 2 to Brazil.

If you know the breeder is trustworthy, due to reputation or maybe because you've already bought puppies from him before, why bother spending $2000+ to go see the puppy in person and then have the it shipped back with you?
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
@Esand it is the same Bill. Yes I know not all the breeders who ship puppies are bad, but around here the majority are. And yes, there are many people who will spend loads of money on puppy mill dogs. Trust me, NJ is a small state and if someone is that hardcore about getting some sort of champion bred puppy from a good breeder they will go through the small inconvenience of going to NY or PA to pick them up. Sometimes you need to make a blanket law that will catch 90% of bad guys even if a small number of people have problems with it.
 

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Actually newark is a major hub for international shipments of animals in pressurized cargo holds. Going to NY or PA is just adding stress and hassle for the puppies.

The bill would be great if it just kept dogs from being sold in pet stores. That would cut down on 90% of puppy mill puppies. People who would order their dogs across state or country borders are probably more likely to make an informed choice and choose a reputable breeder.

Making it harder to get puppies from abroad just further complicates the already complicated issue of preventing interbreeding, especially in less common breeds.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
I'm sure amendments and changes can be made if it picks up that much steam. It can be a bargaining chip
 

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I hope this doesn't pass. Obeying the law would be extremely impractical for breeders, especially with "rare" breeds. That fact could actually benefit puppy mills and BYBs as many wouldn't care about following this laws. I don't know how this would even be remotely enforceable and people could just get dogs from out of state. You may even see some reputable breeders move out of state which would benefit puppy mills and BYBs.
 

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Thinking about it, rightly or wrongly, this law probably may not survive a court challenge possibly making a waste of money. States aren't suppose to regulate shipments between states.
 

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Definitely for the pet shop part of it.

Kind of on the fence over the face-to-face only transaction part. Now, I'm in VA so this likely won't affect me... but generally speaking I wouldn't have a problem making a road trip or two to meet people, dogs, and pick up a puppy even across the country (looking at a breeder in WA actually). Heck, if I had a passport I wouldn't mind driving to Canada for such. Overseas countries, though, that's a bit out of reach... I can't think of many import puppies who were purchased face-to-face...
 

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Yeah, but I wonder how many people actually run into the problem of trying to buy a rare breed and/or having to import from a reputable breeder.

I think the face to face aspect is trying to combat the increase in online puppy sales.

I guess at the end of the day, there's always a way around anything. Someone could go to NY or another state, pick up a load of pups, and broker them on Craigslist. Geographically you guys are in a more ideal state for inter-state travel since you're all a little closer together. But I suppose at least it could put a wrench in things.

I think it could do with some serious thought as to how it would be enforced but what really needs to happen is some sort of national regulation. Education is important because some people really are clueless but still there are some who just don't care or refuse to believe the reality -- we've had posters even here who think pet store puppies are perfectly acceptable!

Doubtful we'd have anything major going on nationally because again, at the end of the day, it's a profitable business and the US doesn't like to mess with those. Just look at Wall Street and all the energy companies that are causing pollution (but making money so that's okay).


Anyway...that's my smattering of thoughts, haha. Ultimately, even though it's not perfect, I'm all for it. I think it could slow at least some of the flow down and may not inconvenience the majority of people.
 

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@PoppyKenna
I meant won't affect me because I have no interest in New Jersey in general, so I won't have to deal with that particular bill unless this state does something similar.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
There aren't too many breeders other than backyard breeders in NJ compared to other states. Most breeders have/need a lot of property and there's not as much here compared to others. If the bill doesn't pass maybe we can redo it so it's just pet stores and be make specific on what sort of animals can be shipped in. Like I said though, it's such a severe problem here that even if it causes a problem for some breeders it will help protect a lot of dogs, and people really.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
I also support national regulation, but it should be private. Only law enforcements and ASPCA/humane society should control it. Something has to be done.
 

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I think people forget that no matter what is done with the laws there will always be breeders with less than ethical practices. The difference between a BYB and a reputable breeders is a matter of opinion and degree. Too much regulation would just benefit BYBs and puppy mills which don't care about the laws.
 

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There already is national regulation of mills via the USDA. Problem is, it's not well enforced and the rules can be pretty lax.

To me, it's not an issue of reputable vs backyard breeders. The lines on that get blurred so easily anyway, and generally most bad breeders (by my standards) either generally treat their dogs well or will be prosecuted for general neglect (or could be).

MILLS are the problem. IMO, there is no good way to run a mill. None. I don't know the best way to stomp them out but legislation to choke it off is a good place to start.
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The problem isn't needing more laws. There are laws in place against the unethical keeping of animals. The problem is that we need more people and more money to help catch and enforce these laws. And that's tax dollars.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
But by that logic there shouldn't be any regulation on animal cruelty because it will still happen anyway. Of course bad things will always happen but that doesn't mean we can't try our best to protect those in need and improve standards.
 
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