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I've followed the aftermaths of this storm closely (It's a little too real considering I live in Florida) and there were talks about 5 dogs that were left chained to a garage type structure. When the boats came by it was too late. I do not understand the logic. While I understand that not everyone is like me (I left the other day in a full fledged anxiety attack telling my husband that we needed to buy the dogs life jackets) I don't understand why you wouldn't at least give the dog a fighting chance to let nature take over.

Unfortunately finding and charging these people are going to be the least of the police department's worries. They are still trying to rescue people and stop looters. Post hurricane cities are unlike anyone has seen. Reminds me of the Purge. We just have to hope karma comes back around to these people.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
sorry, don't agree.

...

Unfortunately finding and charging these people are going to be the least of the police department's worries.
...
not to be too cynical, but...
kinda like the cops in N'Awlins & St Bernard were "too busy" to figure out which cops killed about 30 dogs, left tied in a public school in St Bernard Parish when their families, who had taken shelter there, left them -- to go check their homes, after the water fell?
The dogs who were each methodically gut-shot at close range with 9-MM police-issue ammo?...

The sole survivors in that school were a newborn litter & their dam; they'd been left in a hallway separate from the other dogs, who were in a schoolroom - with their OWNERS' NAMES & addresses listed on the chalkboards, around that room. :ponder:

Or kinda like the unsolved murders of [black] citizens who were killed by N'Awlins cops during Katrina, when they went to the police for "help" ?

I would presume that the dogs who were chained & drowned in Texas were most-likely on their owners' properties, or if a neighbor was on higher ground, not far from home.
Local vets could easily identify their clients' pets from photos; some might be chipped - many will have rabies tags, which are also traceable [ the tags are numbered individually].

- terry

 

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Yea, all those things are horrible. But you know what else is horrible? People drowning in their own homes. Or children being swept away. Or mothers dying while trying to save their children from the rising waters. I am all about the animals and saving as many as they can but at this moment they aren't a priority of the police.

While it is easy to presume that the owners are the ones that left the dogs chained our legal system does not punish people unless they intentionally committed an act beyond a reasonable doubt. And at this time it would be hard to prove that A) the owner had possession of the dog (many dogs exchange ownership and don't change legal registration or microchip) B) That the owner intentionally knew that chaining the dog would result in the dogs death (Did the owner leave before the storm and not have access back to their dog? Did the owner not realize the dog couldn't move to higher ground? etc) and C) That the owner did not make an attempt to get back to help the dog. All of those things would be VERY difficult to prove. It's just unrealistic.

Loss is inevitable. Over 250,000 animals died after Katrina. The police are not going to go behind to everyone who was negligent and punish them. We have to believe that karma will do that.

BUT we can agree to disagree. It is obvious that you are passionate about this subject.
 

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Irma in Palm Beach Co, FLA.

let's see - that's
- Andrew
- Katrina
- Harvey [TX, La.]...
& now, Irma.

In every one, animals were left chained or tied in rising water, or in low-lying areas with mandated evacuation orders, where storm surge was expected to cause HUMAN drownings.

26 dogs in a single Florida -county- during Irma; TWENTY-THREE of them in a single trailer-park.
At that rate, how many animals were abandoned to fate in affected areas of the STATE of Florida? - Wanna guess?
That would be from the Keys to Jacksonville - every town, city, township, & county. :ponder:

https://forcechange.com/354052/dogs-tied-up-and-abandoned-during-deadly-hurricane-deserve-justice/

QUOTE,
"County officials will be pursuing criminal charges against the owners who abandoned their dogs & tethered them in places where they could not escape the storm."

Good. :thumbsup: I hope they throw the whole law-library at them, not just "a" book. :D

- terry

 

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I gotta admit, as someone who lived in Florida during Andrew and is currently living in the state during the aftermath of Irma, people like you really piss me off. It's really easy to sit at home far away from the aftermath of this storm and cast your judgement. But you've never been faced with the choice to either take your dog and risk being turned away from almost every shelter as they quickly filled up or stay in your shanty of a mobile home and risk dying yourself. 40 dogs were surrendered to Palm Beach County Animal Control the day before the storm hit. That is a shelter that was already filled to the max and and were now scrambling to house many more dogs that they didn't have room for.

For perspective. In my County on the east coast of south Florida that is a low lying area with many beaches and flood zones, 1 shelter allowed animals. And you were limited to 2 animals. And they all needed to have current rabies (which cost money) and a current health certificate (which costs money). Oh and it filled up in a matter of hours. The county directly south of us also only had 1 shelter that accepted animals. Same rules. Evacuation wasn't an option for many because it's expensive, dangerous (cars frequently overheat and/or run out of gas), or wasn't possible because of jobs (I did not get paid for the days my office was closed for the hurricane). So what options did people who lived in these evacuation zones face (evacuation zones not only included low lying areas but ALL mobile homes)? The FEMA act that says hotels can't turn you away is bull and actually has no weight as it applies to after the storm and only to people who are being put up in hotels by FEMA. Wouldn't have mattered anyway as hotels were impossible to find in almost all of North Florida and South Georgia. Not to mention expensive (all hotels and flights in the area SKYROCKETED). So what were people to do? Risk their life? When does a human life become less important than an animal's life?

To make sure I don't get passed off as a dog hater who thinks animals should die in hurricanes, I do support punishing the people who left their animals in unlivable circumstances (tied or chained up, etc). I also think there should be more shelters or assistance to low income families with pets.

Also another suggestion, why don't you actually help? Instead of complaining about abandoned animals from Hurricane ravished areas, why don't you adopt a dog or 2? Palm Beach County Humane Society just flew a plane full of animals to New York because we are so over run. Empower your local shelters or rescues to take in some Harvey or Irma dogs. Do something other then sit behind a computer and cast judgement to people in a situation that you could never dream about.

I will apologize to the mods now. I just couldn't bite my tongue anymore.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
U're wrong.

I gotta admit, as someone who lived in Florida during Andrew and is currently living in the state during the aftermath of Irma, people like you really piss me off.
It's really easy to sit at home, far away from the aftermath of this storm and cast your judgement.

But you've never been faced with the choice to either take your dog and risk being turned away from almost every shelter as they quickly filled up, or stay in your shanty of a mobile home and risk dying yourself.

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Pardon me, but how would U know?

During the years that i spent in Tidewater, VA - June 1998 to July 2012 - i went thru
- 3 hurricanes
- 7 nor'easters
- & was flooded out of my Norfolk apt 3 times in 4 years.

Every time BUT ONE - the 1st hurricane, Bonnie, when i lived in Va Beach in a shared 2-bdrm apt with my mother - I evacuated WITH MY PETS to a safe place.

That 1st time, my mother insisted we "stay in place" because she was afraid our place would be looted. Bonnie was a Cat-1 - so much against my wishes, I agreed to stay with her. // She was bored, & went to bed at 9-PM after worrying all day; at 3-AM, i was in the bathroom, the only windowless room in the apt, with my dog & my snake... watching the water in the dog's bowl tilt as the building was shoved sideways by the winds, & listening to stuff smash outside.

At 7-AM, my mother got up, & announced, "that wasn't so bad." [She was profoundly deaf, & didn't hear things smashing into the building, breaking outside, or falling. I had.]
I told her to look outside. "Oh, my!..." Yeah.

Bonnie did $9-million in damage to Va Beach CITY INFRASTRUCTURE - not counting any private property.

We had no electricity for 3-weeks after the storm, except emergency power via ONE outlet; the refrigerator took up one receptacle, & we used the other for the coffeemaker, toaster oven, microwave, or a 15-watt Ott floor-lamp that my mother had criticized me for buying - which at night, was our only light-source, in the living room.
U had to use flashlights in the bathroom or bedrooms.

I told her that her next hurricane, if she stayed, she'd be solo. // As it was, she evac'ed with my elder sister, BiL, & nephew to upland N Carolina, each time; I evacuated myself, & my pets - without a car, & working full-time for just $8 to 8.80 per hour, over the 6-years that i worked in the main dining-room at Westminster-Canterbury on the Bay.

So actually - been there, done that. // I didn't leave my Akita tied to a tree, or chained to a curbside traffic-sign. I didn't leave my salmon bellied snake, my corn-snake, my leucistic Texas rat-snake, or my box-turtles behind, to "take care of themselves". Nor did i dump them outdoors.

Currently, I'm thrilled that i no longer live in Ye Olde Dominion, & am now in Massachusetts - where both the politics & the climate suit me much, much better. :thumbsup:

- terry

 

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Wow. What actually shocks me about that is how unsympathetic you still are having to have experienced that. I guess it's different because Florida is very different from Virginia (2 roads lead out of Florida, that's it). Oh well.

Honestly, I'm not going to argue with you. It's pointless. You're very set in your ways standing up atop your soapbox. The only thing I can encourage you to do is put your time and money where your mouth is. Texas and Florida are in dire need of help right now on the animal front (livestock still standing in flooded pastures, shelters full to the max, etc) and will benefit from people stepping away from the keyboard and using their passion for positive.

:thumbsup:
 
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I have closed the thread as it has very much run its course. Unless you are in specific situations, you cannot possibly know how you would handle them. We can all have our own opinions but we'll leave the punishments up to law enforcement.

If you wish to discuss further, start a thread in Talk to the Team. :thumbsup:
 
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