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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hi Everyone
well Nova is just over a year old and is a thief! a counter surfing .shoe stealing pot holder running with in mouth THIEF! once she got a chefs knife !!
My house is puppy proof. but sometimes someone will leave something on the counter and Nova thinks this will be fun and steals it and runs! AND she does not just steal she consumes and eats everything! not shred EATS ! so its a very dangerous situations . thanks to training and crate games lots of walks and a fenced in yard I have kept her alive ! But after a year of this i could just scream.
Everyone is telling me to get the shock collar! some of my family refer to her as the white demon! SOOOOO I decided last week lets try a water bottle ...first time i used it she had my pot holder in her mouth i squirted her and said DROP IT and magic happened SHE DROPPED IT!! Nova has spent more time with us free in the house in the last week then in her whole life!! but then tonight she turned on me she decided she was going to steal that same damn pot holder! I squirted her and said Drop IT she snarled and layed down with it .most definitely without a doubt she would of attacked me if had i continued, I could see right away we have a big issue! not wanting to be a bad dog mom and continue with this aggression. I told her that she did not really want to bite me I touched her paw rubbed her face and after a bit she gave up the pot holder!

I HAVE TRIED EVERYTHING....training and videos and reading and reading ....and I am so sad because this last week was so hopeful her behavior was beautiful because she did not want to be squirted!...SHE IS TRAINED ! she will do whatever you ask for a treat. she is amazing on the lead housebroke sits lays down and so on.. and I see the amazing dog inside the nut case lab puppy brain!

PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE ! some direction on what to do next ..water bottle was a total fail :( I DO NOT WANT THE SHOCK COLLAR I just have never needed it in the past and have trained large breed dogs my whole life. but this Lab.....well lets just say NEVER EVER will I get another but I am not giving up on this one...somewhere inside there is a amazing dog ...that I am failing....:headbash:
HELP!!!!
 

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both the bottle and the Shock collar works with positive punishment, that means they add a uncomfortable or painful stimulus for the dog if it does something wrong.
Personally I'm not a fan of it. I'm more of a cotton-ball-thrower. ^^"
I'd keep her contained when you can't watch her for her own safety.
IF you are at home, you could haver her on a houseleash for more control. what you want is getting her mind away from the object, that she wants to steal, before she has it in her mouth.
If you have already an signal to shift her attention back to you, I'd use that and reward her with a nice treat. If not, is now a good time to condition her to a cue, that makes her stop whatever she's doing and look at you (a dogwalk-friend uses "cookie", I've also heard "na?", "Fräuleinsche" and "honey booboo", don't afraid to sounds silly :D)it should sounds friendly and unthreatening. you call you signal, she looks at you :cookie.
At least for the first weeks I wouldn't try to stretch out treats. she should feel rewarded for everytime she breaks an activity and looks at you instead.


Parallely I'd practice exchanging with her. For something she shouldn't have, for what ever reason, she'll get something much more awesome from you when gives the object up.
taking objects and and giving her a bad feeling about it, can make her more protective about "her stuff" and I don't think you want a ressource guarder at home.
make it in a way so she can win and get a treat and it's fun for her...I'm sure you can teach her without aversive methods. :)
 
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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I know you said you tried everything but could you be more specific as to what you have tried? :)

Ok here we go!
1.I have used a high value treat IE lunch meat or hot dog pieces. put them on the counter and had her sit look at me and leave it...it was successful in she did it no problem ....she will do anything for a treat . but then she reverted right back to stealing.

2.I have offered her the ball told her to drop it for a treat and she does it EVERYTIME ...for a treat.. these top two we do often..

3.my husband got the idea to use hot sauce on the counter edge....yeah she did not fall for that one LOL

4.when she has something in her mouth. I tried the run away and chase and play with me distraction SHE LOVES THIS! and will drop it just out of my reach!! then when i go to get the item even if i wait a LONG LONG TIME she steals and runs, this she does often!

5. I have taken the item and made her sit and stay...she has the attention span of a 1 year old child she will do this .....and then run and steal the first chance she has.

6. during play time with the ball or toy I put my hand in front of her nose and say drop it...she thinks this is funny and gets excited !

7. I have tried to just ignore her....ok she has my shoe she may tear it up...I have sacrificed my shoe!! and given her NO ATTENTION total ignore...thinking she is doing this for play and attention....shoe died Nova still a thief...and she enjoyed killing shoe.

8. water bottle see above for the aggressive response.

9. I have her trained for leave it!! on a lead she will leave it! for a treat she will leave it! but if she has a object in her mouth and I do not have a treat handy....LET THE GAMEs BEGIN!!

10.I can lay a treat on the floor and walk away tell her to leave it and she will!! until i give her the OK command!!

she will do ANYTHING for a treat and I have full eye contact and obedience! and i mean she will train and do ANYTHING!! for a treat!!

11. house lead....kept her on her lead in the house...she ate that lead in 2.2 seconds the moment I did not have my eyes on her :::note when the lead is in my hands she is completely obedient. I cannot walk around and do dishes and live my life with a lead in my hand at all times ....BUT I HAVE TRIED!!

I am sure I will remember a couple other things but you get the jest :) your thoughts? I think until i get her to the point where she will do anything I ask treat or no treat I am doomed I also think this is immaturity...she is crate trained (will go to bed for a treat) and at this point I have to crate her for everything...going to the bathroom or leaving the area for any reason l
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 ·
Also when I was in total Puppy Hell and could not take it anymore and Nova was at the vets getting x rays for a possible blockage ..(turned out she got to the kitty litter and that is why she was vomiting stool Eww) I went and got Nova a litter mate! I adopted 6 year old Oliver a 25lb terrier mix that is sweet and chill but still loves to play. I was desperate and thought that the world revolved around Nova to much and a litter mate might help distract her from herself......NOPE same behavior!! but I got Oliver who is such a good dog!! so it was not a total fail! :p
 

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How much exercise does she get? Both metal and physical? Labs are high energy and she is still young. I've always found a tired puppy is a well behaved puppy.
When you do training do not always give a treat, you want to wean off them. I've been doing this with my dane pup. Sometimes it feels like you are loosing ground but before you know it it's working.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
How much exercise does she get? Both metal and physical? Labs are high energy and she is still young. I've always found a tired puppy is a well behaved puppy.
When you do training do not always give a treat, you want to wean off them. I've been doing this with my dane pup. Sometimes it feels like you are loosing ground but before you know it it's working.
I take her for a walk daily and she has a very large fenced in area that we play in ...Oliver and Nova will RUN and RUN and play. I work from home so I am able to give her lots of exercise..she is so high energy !!!it does seem like she can never wear it all out!! I knew that when I got her that Labs would need time and lots of exercise. and I am told that this will last a few years!

The treat thing has to stop I agree with you there!! what did you do to wean off? I have her trained to GO TO BED (crate) and she will run into her crate because she knows she will get her treat...and when I dont give her a treat...the next time when i say GO TO BED she will stand outside of the room her crate is in and wait to see if i have a treat ..if I dont she [email protected]!!! this one....this one is way to smart
 

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To wean off the treats you could start by doing some easy commands. Sit, stay, down, shake or whatever else she knows. Start by doing tricks she is good at and only give a treat every second or third time. So she needs to do multiple things to get that treat. Slowly string it out farther and farther.

I was just looking at Zak George's youtube channel for dog training and a few of his videos may be helpful for you. I've followed some of his stuff for training my dane and it's worked out well. Maybe you should take a look, it could be helpful.
 

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if you want to reduce treats, how about starting to ask for chains of (simple) commands, befure she gets one and try to make the chain of comands longer and longer. :)

@petty254 one should never get another pet to get the first occupied, in my opnion.
 

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if you want to reduce treats, how about starting to ask for chains of (simple) commands, befure she gets one and try to make the chain of comands longer and longer. :)

@petty254 one should never get another pet to get the first occupied, in my opnion.
I agree, getting one pet to occupy another is not a good idea. It's more likely you'll end up with two crazy dogs that have no manners and run around like lunatics. Getting a second dog is great if it's for you, something you want. But in this situation I don't see it being good. Doggy play dates may not be a bad idea. But it comes more down to training. She needs to learn what is ok and what isn't. She is like a teen testing her limits.
 
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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
well I did get another pet ...I was planning on adopting from the shelter after Nova was trained and good to go....but I made the mistake of thinking getting one now would distract her ..IT DID NOT DO A SINGLE THING TO HELP LOL however I have Oliver now and he is a wonderful dog and a great addition to the family..he is very chill in temperment and just the sweetest thing! so it was not a mistake after all ...it just didnt help out with Nova :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
I am going to start this weening off of treats right away :)!! she is fully trained with obedience and on a lead...its her manners that need work! TY :)
 

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Honestly I think management is going to be your best bet with her. The stealing is HIGHLY rewarding for her. 1. It gets your attention so it turns into a game. 2. If you ignore her then it's still rewarding since she gets to destroy the item. With her either way you go it's a self rewarding behavior. Try to make sure anything she may steal is put up before you you have her loose, and always confine her when you cannot watch her.

You could also try teaching her to bring you her ill gotten gains for a high value treat, once you have her consistently bringing you the items you can vary treats and play. It won't stop the behavior but it will keep her from destroying and/or consuming them.
Basically it's sort if like teaching a retrieving game, mixed with a trading game, which will capitalize on what he was bred to do.

https://pawsitivedawgs.wordpress.com/2010/12/27/stealingdogs/
 

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I see two separate issues.

- The poor behavior at home
- The Aggression / RG towards you.

The second is a lot more worrisome to me than the first if that was an accurate diagnoses. Are you sure she would have bit you if you had gone for it and she wasn't just trying to play tug or keep-away?

I think the water bottle is a bad idea, it's not all that aversive (labs are not cats) and it's pretty obvious that the source of getting sprayed is not grabbing stuff off the counter rather its you.

I think she needs more exercise.

You say you have a back yard. Can you play fetch? Fetch is something most labs live to do and 10-15 min of it will usually have them pretty wiped out.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 ·
well it went from bad to worse in the last 24 hours my dog has attacked Oliver (her littermate) more then 4 times and she has gone full blown guarding aggressive over the stolen items. my daughter came over today to do laundry she left the laundry room door cracked open while she was switching loads and Nova stuck her head in and like a flash has a washcloth...when I went to take it from her it happened again...this dog..I don't know who she was. the only thing i can compare it too is when i was a groomer we had a dog once that had crate fear my Nova had the same stance backed up against the sofa ready to attack if i moved a inch near her. I tossed a treat into the crate told her to get her treat and go to bed she reluctantly did so. Poor Oliver(her littermate) walked close to her and she attacked him. she bit him hard!......

I just got off the phone with my breeder...I am going to seek professional help, first thing in the morning I begin the hunt for a good trainer..NO ONE but me will touch that dog..and I will only go near her with a lead...crate lead walk and back to the crate until I know what to do...I feel like I failed her somehow... thank you for your direction and advice Rain ty for that information it has help alot!
 

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Oh no!
So sorry!

I had a bunch of info but then saw your last post! But better to at this point have a pro come in and work with you and your girl in person.

This thread has links that may help you find a good trainer or behaviorist. Also has links that explain differences between professionals and what qualifications mean/what to look for.
http://www.dogforum.com/training-be...ainer-behavior-consultant-behaviorist-113946/

I will say that it is likely that a good trainer or behaviorist will have you set up a vet appointment to rule out possible medical causes, including a thyroid panel. They will also make a management plan the first order of business (no access to items, crate and rotate, etc.) You can get a head start on both while you research trainers/behaviorists. If needing help with management ideas, we can help with that!

Good luck and please do share your progress/keep us in the loop!:)
 

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This is why you should never use aversive and confrontational training methods with dogs. I hope you find a good positive reinforcement trainer who can help you with your dogs issues in a gentle way.

One of my previous clients had to euthanize their dog because of using a squirt bottle and hose for discipline. The dog was not even able get a bath because he was so fearful of the water that he became seriously aggressive and would bite hard. It was really sad and I would never recommend ever using a squirt bottle for discipline...
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 ·
I have found the professional we need. in a couple of days Nova will be dropped off at the kennel. in three weeks I will be integrated into her training and our work together will begin, total training can take 6 to 8 weeks. its a little costly but not half of what I have spent in the last year in vet bills. I am Most happy for one reason . My biggest question was if we go through all of this will I have a dog that I truly can trust around children and anyone! And the answer was YES! If I am willing to do what this trainer says and put the work in...My answer is YES! right now I have HOPE!!!
 
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