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Discussion Starter #1
I wanted to introduce a few of my favorite fellow-trainers, & i'm going to post them here, in no particular order, other than as i come across a video, article, helpful tip, etc, from each.

None of these folks use aversive tools [those designed or intended to cause pain, discomfort, or fear, or to startle - such as prong collars, choke-chains / infinite-slip collars, shock collars, anti-pull harnesses that pinch or constrict, air-horns, throw-chains, rattle cans, yadda-yadda],
nor do they use coercive methods [brute force, intimidate, confront, harass, scruff, "roll the dog", "pin the dog", stare-downs, yadda-yadda].

All of them have good things to offer, as teachers - some specialize, in a particular dog-sport or area of interest; others are just good all-rounders who have perhaps a better way of explaining how to teach a particular cued behavior, or how to use B-Mod to reduce or eliminate an unwanted behavior.

These are the folks that i'd trust to raise my next pup, temporarily, if i was sick or injured & couldn't do it myself. :D Greater love than this hath no trainer, than to entrust their tender pup to a fellow trainer - it's the ultimate testament of faith.


I hope U enjoy 'meeting' them virtually, & find many useful, helpful tips.
- terry

 

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Discussion Starter #2
Leonard Cecil

Leonard, known to his friends as Buzz, is an accidental trainer. He didn't set out to be a dog-trainer; he was drafted. :D

He & his wife got a pup, who was very very different from all their previous dogs; she was what i'd describe as soft - affectionate, a bit timid, very sweet, but she'd fold in the face of any challenge.
The poor pup just couldn't seem to learn anything when they used the old stand-by methods; in fact, instead of improving, she got 'worse' - more fearful, more anxious, more tentative, more withdrawn. :(

Buzz loved this dog, & was driven to find whatever would help her to understand the behavior that was wanted, so that she could blossom into the dog she may not have been born to be, but a better dog - more confident, more curious, happier in her own skin.

Here are 2 clips i especially enjoy - Vela & Buzz:


If U read the comments under this clip, U'll see someone accuses Buzz of being "a food trainer!" :eek: -
he reassures them that he never has, & never will, train food. :rolleyes:

____________________________________________



Buzz lives in Switzerland - i wish he was closer. :)

- terry

 

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Discussion Starter #3
Pat Miller

Pat trains both dogs & horses - two of my favorite species. :) She's a good teacher, a great coach, & a clear, effective writer. // She & her family live with their beasts in Maryland.

an assortment of her articles:
Peaceable Paws


here's a clip from owners with their dog-reactive F Boxer, Sophie [brindle, pink collar & wearing harness], with a dog-social F Boxer, Bella [red fawn, blue collar].

At 2:55, Bella's losing it, LOL - she really wants to get closer, meet & greet, poor kid!
But even with the stooge dog spinning like a whirligig & barking in frustration, Sophie can SIT WITH HER BACK TURNED & focus on her handler, on a loose leash.
What a good dog! :thumbsup: They later have a great time playing off leash.

- terry

 

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Discussion Starter #5
it's a joke.

...

If U read the comments under this clip, U'll see someone accuses Buzz of being "a food trainer!" :eek: -
he reassures them that he never has, & never will, train food. :rolleyes:

____________________________________________
The first video from 3:17 to the end, he is shoving treats at the dog,
what am I missing?
DD,
what would U like to train food to do? :p

"pet rocks" are good at Sit, Down, Stay, & similar sessile behaviors, but they totally suck on recall, & are hopeless on an agility course - even jump-free courses. ;)
I'd say most food is pretty comparable to pet-rocks, in terms of trainability.

Dead-dog behaviors are not trainable ['Anything a dead dog can do is not a trainable behavior.' - the list includes all the "Don't" behaviors that novice puppy-owners want to teach their pups, as in Don't bark / jump-up / void indoors / _____ ].

.
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Discussion Starter #6
Trisha McConnell

Ms McConnell is a CAAB, & she's cheerful, practical, knowledgeable, & great fun -
i've enjoyed every seminar, webinar, & workshop of hers that i was lucky enuf to attend. :)

Early on, she had a 30-minute show on Animal Planet back when AP was just getting started; she'd demonstrate a training technique or B-Mod for some problem, answer questions posed by viewers, analyze videos sent in, show off a new trick done by one of her BCs, etc.
It was a great mixed-bag.
She told a story once that i found hysterical - she was divorced after marrying very young, & she told a story from the time of her marriage. // She was peacefully sleeping one night in their double bed, & their ginormous dog was curled sleeping between them; he flopped onto his side AND STRETCHED HIS LEGS OUT, shoving Trisha bodily out of the bed, still sleeping, to land with a painful thud on the floor.
:eyeroll: Ow! - she was still trying to understand what happened when she heard her dear hubby's sleepy voice, asking, "Did U push the dog out of bed again?...", in a world-weary tone, as if she shoved the poor suffering beast out of the bed every night. :rofl:
He never even OPENED HIS EYES, nor enquired if she was OK. // She got up, a bit the worse for wear, hauled the 100#-plus dog off the bed & banished him from the bedroom, & got back under the covers.
Her hubby was already asleep again, & next morning, couldn't imagine why she wasn't thrilled to see him over breakfast, LOL - the hip she'd landed on was black-&-blue. :headshake: :p


here's her blog -
The Other End of the Leash – Patricia McConnell, Ph.D., a Certified Applied Animal Behaviorist, has made a lifelong commitment to improving the relationship between people and animals.

Lots of good material there - try searching for "thunder phobia", 3 excellent articles on why it's impossible to "reinforce fear" by comforting a frightened animal [including human animals ;) ].


Free Webinar by Patricia McConnell | The Bark
thebark.com/content/free-webinar-patricia-mcconnell
Dec 3, 2012 -
It's a FREE webinar given by Trisha McConnell, who is a scientist, canine behaviorist, dog trainer, and one of the dog world's most sought-after ...



ASPCA Webinar | Helping Adopted Dogs | Patricia McConnell ...
ASPCA Webinar | Helping Adopted Dogs | Patricia McConnell | McConnell Publishing Inc.
Everyone in shelter and rescue work wants the dogs in their care to go to stable homes. However, there are very few resources for people who are adopting ...


ASPCApro Webinar | Canine Behavior and Acoustics - Patricia McConnell
ASPCA Webinar | Canine Behavior and Acoustics | McConnell | McConnell Publishing Inc.
Much of our ... Anywhere! Just click here to watch for FREE!


Building Resilience in Dogs | ASPCApro
Building Resilience in Dogs | ASPCApro
Sep 15, 2016 -
Author Patricia McConnell shows us what we learn from human ... You can listen to this webinar at your convenience, any time 24/7.



BTW, Trish's booklets for clients are marvelous for loaning. ;)
- terry


 

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DD,
"it's a joke"

.
.
Yes, I assumed it was sarcasm but I was more aiming at his "myth" regarding clicker trained dogs only "work" for food hence my comment.

Years ago I was very hardheaded about food based training or whatever type of reward tripped the particular dog's trigger. I contended that no matter what the reward was, the dog essential was working for that item even after the reward item was dramatically faded and the dog was not truly working for the human and to please them. A German gentleman took a staunch position with me stating that most all dogs can be trained via any reward or consequence but in fact the dog is not working for the human and on that we agreed. His mentality was basically the use of a material reward has its merit to teach the dog the basic behavior up front but after that, the reward should shift to a nature of the handler's praise, satisfaction and "attitude" so as to let the dog know it has done well and the human is pleased. He stated that when this relationship and "communication" is solid, you now have a dog working for the human and there is no better reward. They simply want to please their human, food treats, games of tug, a tossed frisbee etc become secondary and are not directly related to the dog's adherence to learned obedience and execution.

It took years to have this sink into my head but the gentleman was 100% correct.

I'm sure Buzz has created this type of relationship with his dogs but it is the part of dog training so many do not discuss because all too many people become slaves to food based ( or any material reward ) training. Most dogs are regular Einstein's when the promise of the reward is present but have little consistency when the "treat" is not seen, scented or present. I have a feeling you know exactly what I mean.
 

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Discussion Starter #8
Not exactly.

Yes, I assumed it was sarcasm...
Not sarcasm. :)

Dog training = teach a dog cued behaviors.
cat training = teach a cat ... " ... " .
food training = presumably, teach food to perform behaviors on cue.

USING food as a reward for performing a desired behavior, or as an unconditioned reinforcer in B-Mod for a positive / happy Pavlovian association, is USING food - it's not "training" food.

accuracy in communication does help; if i don't use CER / conditioned emotional response As It Is Defined in behavior science, i can't communicate; we need shared definitions of terms, & such terms as 'dominant / dominance', 'capture vs lure vs shape', etc, can only be used if we agree on what they mean.

As for the rest - i'm not discussing it on this thread. :)

- terry

 

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Discussion Starter #11
KikoPup AKA Emily Larlham

KikoPup is a terrific teacher & a doggone good trainer who began by posting simple videos on UTube to show average-pet-owners how to teach a dog or pup cued behaviors, or prevent problem behaviors, or even fix problem behaviors - WITHOUT using aversive tools or coercive methods. :thumbsup:


She was an American treasure - her popularity grew, & then... disaster struck. :eek: She fell in love... with someone overseas, & left the U-S to make a new life. :( I was glad for her - but sad for dog-training here, & for all the APOs who wouldn't get to meet her unless they went to northern Europe. [Her sweetheart is Nordic.]

This is one of her early clips -


she'll be a presenter at the 2018 PPG Summit -
The PPG 2018 Training & Behavior Event ...
https://www.petprofessionalguild.com/event-2424999
The PPG 2018 Training & Behavior Event at Best Friends in Kanab, Utah ... individuals that have registered for the Orlando 2017 Summit prior to this registration ... Janis Bradley, Emily Larlham, Chirag Patel, Jacqueline Munera, Emily Cassell ...


 

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Discussion Starter #12
Jean Donaldson

Wonderful writer, great trainer, good teacher -

Academy For Dog Trainers - A world-leading, advanced program for ...
https://academyfordogtrainers.com/
The Academy for Dog Trainers offers one of the most rigorous, advanced programs in dog behavior and training in the world. Our goal is to raise...

Jean Donaldson: Books, Biography, Blog, Audiobooks ...
https://www.amazon.com/Jean-Donaldson/e/B000APJJ4S
12 Results -
A Practical Guide to Resource Guarding in Dogs by Jean Donaldson (2002-01-01). 1849 ...
Dogs Are from Neptune by Jean Donaldson (2009-07-09).


Modern Dog Training vs. Cesar Millan - Urban Dawgs
Modern Dog Training vs. Cesar Millan
Talk Softly and Carry a Carrot... or a Big Stick?
By Jean Donaldson, Director of The SF/SPCA Academy for Dog Trainers.
Dog training is a divided profession.


a quote:
"The force-free movement gains momentum every year, & a sure sign of this is that many trainers in the other camps resort to murkier & murkier euphemisms, to disguise their more-violent practices & retain their market share."
- Jean Donaldson, in the Woofer Times, Sept. 2006



 

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Discussion Starter #13
Vic Stilwell

her short-lived TV series in the U-S made Victoria look like a cross between a dominatrix & a biker-chick - skin-tight leather pants, leather bustier, a QUIRT?... :rofl:
I mean, really. :rolleyes: // She's an ex-model who began walking dogs as a way to make $$ on the side, with a flexible schedule so she could keep modeling.
Unlike Mr Millan of Nat'lGeo fame, she learned more about dog-behavior over the years, & she didn't rely on brute-strength, aversives, intimidation, or confrontation to achieve her ends. :thumbsup:

Vic's a reward-based trainer who wants people to live happily with their dogs, & dogs to live happily in human communities - minimizing friction & maximizing the pleasure of each other's company.

Victoria Stilwell Positively | The Official Website
https://positively.com/
The official website of It's Me or the Dog / Victoria Stilwell, & the online home of positive reinforcement dog training.


Victoria Stilwell - YouTube channel
https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCbAPsX6cFnHLCqIkoZbnRBw
The official YouTube channel for renowned dog behavior expert Victoria Stilwell, star of It's Me or the Dog. Subscribe for all things dog, or find more positi...

 

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Discussion Starter #14
Sophia Yin, DVM

Dr Sophia was only a mediocre dog-trainer - her timing wasn't spot-on, but thankfully reward-training is way, way-more forgiving of technical flaws than punitive training. :eek: A good thing for her. :D

Dr Yin's big passion was reducing stress to an absolute minimum at the vet's, in order to have patients who are co-operative vs panicky or defensive, & whose vitals U can hear without trying to auscultate a lung or hear a pulse for BP thru thunderous growling or terrified shrieks. :eek:
She wanted relaxed patients - which also meant clients were less stressed, too. :thumbsup:

LOW-STRESS HANDLING was her mantra; she was gradually building a groundswell of support in the vet-med community, when she died - she took her own life. :( It was a real blow to the training community, & a shock to those of us who had no idea of her own emotional distress.

Others are carrying on her dream.

Dr. Sophia Yin – The Art & Science of Animal Behavior
https://drsophiayin.com/
The legacy of Dr. Sophia Yin continues with the launch of Low Stress Handling® University (LSHU) at www.LowStressHandling.com, an integrated but separate ...


She wrote some great books...
Sophia Yin - Welcome to Dogwise.com
https://www.dogwise.com/SearchResults.cfm?Search=Sophia Yin&SubSearch...
In Perfect Puppy In 7 Days, Dr. Sophia Yin explains why puppies do what they do, how ... Instant Digital Download - You only receive a digital copy of this book!


... & her UTube channel is full of helpful tips & demonstrations:
Sophia Yin - YouTube
https://www.youtube.com/user/SuperBark1
Fun videos on animal behavior and training. ... This was the memorial slideshow of Dr. Sophia Yin's celebration of life that was shared with her friends and family ...


there are also videos here -
https://drsophiayin.com/videos/


 

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I agree with you @drivedog it took me about a year after I got my first husky to realize she was only working for the treat not for me. I pulled treats immediately and only praised her for her good behavior. Food/treat training is bad on the human and the dog it's not really building a relationship with you it's building it with the treat your giving it knowing it's going to be there. When I started just praising her she realized the treats were not an option anymore she worked stronger and it was for me. She now works for me and does everything I tell her. It makes her happy and she gets what she needs in the end. :)
 

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Discussion Starter #16
"That dog isn't working for YOU! - the dog just wants the FOOD!"

...
Food/ treat training is bad on the human and the dog [.]
It's not really building a relationship with you, [training with food builds a relationship] with the treat!... ...
...
@Markie -
do U, like the vast majority of humans, have a job? // Or perhaps are now retired, having worked for many years?

Did U get wages for that work? - farmers are paid for their produce; laborers, for their labor.
Artists, for their art. // Humans don't work for nothing; even altruistic actions have a payoff, that nice afterglow.
Nonhumans don't work for nothing, either. Dogs do what works; they repeat actions that pay off,
& are less likely to repeat actions that aren't rewarding.

I don't "hafta" use food; i can use anything. / Real-Life Rewards are simple. Ask the dog to sit;
open the door as the reward. I can use toys, interactive games, 'chase me', whatever.
I can reward a dog WITH ACTION: a BC will bust their butt to earn a chance to work sheep - or cows, ducks, ___ .
Most Labs work their heart out for a chance to fetch a bumper; U just need to know which key unlocks that dog's desire.

I started out a traditional trainer, as a 10-YO in a group class with my 1st pup. // The instructor required choke-chains for all dogs, & they were all spozed to be 6-MO or older. // My pup was only 4-MO; we didn't know that, he'd been abandoned in our farm driveway, & the vet overestimated his age.
I spent the next 3-years with that instructor, a well-known breeder & trainer of GSDs, as my mentor. Mrs Arnold was firm but fair, very humane for her day [the glory days of Koehler, with his heavy-handed "corrections"], & she had bitches with Utility Dog titles - almost unheard-of, then.

By the time i was 18, i'd retired the choke-chains, & was training other folks' dogs - for money.

That was a long time ago - & having done both, as a crossover trainer, i can say with assurance that i get better results, & much-more efficiently, with motivational methods, than i ever got with a choke-chain. :thumbsup:

Now - having expressed Ur undying contempt for my training methods, & all such airy-fairy ilk! :p - I will politely suggest that U start Ur own thread, to discuss whatever methods U prefer, & Ur own role-models. :)

cheers,
- terry

 

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Discussion Starter #17
Steve White

Steve White is a cop.
He's also a dog trainer - & unlike the k9 handlers & trainers & instructors on quite a few police payrolls, he uses REWARDS - not punishers - to train. :thumbsup:

Europe made the change to pos-R K9s a lot earlier than the USA, & even the military grasped the concept sooner than American police-forces did. // Steve's out to make up for lost time, doing his best to spread the use of rewards & curtail the use of aversives.

ProActive K9 | Working Dogs. Thinking trainers.
ProActive K9 | Working Dogs. Thinking trainers.
Welcome to ProActive K9, where we teach you how train your dog to do what you say because he wants to work rather than has to. ... We believe that anytime you're with your dog one of you is training the other, so if you ...

Steve White on the 8 rules of Punishment -
YouTube ▶ 9:29
Jul 20, 2011 -
Uploaded by xslf
From the DVD "How Police K9 Techniques can transform your everyday training" by Tawzer dog videos.


Dogs That WANT To Work -
Steve White from ProActive K9 - YouTube ▶ 10:11
Nov 29, 2013 -
Uploaded by PetTalkPeople
There are dog trainers and dog trainers... and then... there's Steve White -- or more correctly Sgt Steve ...




 

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Discussion Starter #18
Debbie Jacobs

Debbie had many dogs over many years, & then offered to foster a dog from a cruelty bust - a pied Border Collie, who turned out to be a hot mess.
:(

Sunny was terrified of everything & everyone; she had to find an entirely new way to deal with him, or he'd have multiple meltdowns a day. // She began writing about his reconstruction, & eventually wrote a book; many dogs, & many dog-owners, have been deeply thankful for her insights & her practical, kind help.

Fearful Dogs
fearfuldogs.com/
Information and advice for owners and trainers of fearful, shy, anxious and aggressive dogs.


A Guide to Living with & Training a Fearful Dog: Debbie Jacobs ...
https://www.amazon.com/Guide-Living-Training-Fearful-Dog/dp/0615387519
An invaluable resource for owners and rescuers. A finalist in the 2008 Dog Writer's Association of America's writing competition



 

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I'm sorry I really didn't mean that toward you. I get using treats on something and only for some time. The longest time used them was twice the first time I taught the trick and to refocus it. Then I took them. My dogs work for praises I know they don't work for nothing.
 

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Discussion Starter #20
If U decide to work for "praise alone", let me know - i'll hire ya

I'm sorry I really didn't mean that toward you.
thanks -
I'm not especially thin-skinned on this issue; i've had many traditional / aversive trainers tell me (some in rude, crude terms - they weren't holding back & considering my sensitive feelings... :rofl: ) just how lazy, immoral, stoopid, pointless, etc, "cookie-training" is, & some flat-out told me that i was a fraud. :D
If i couldn't cope with that, i'd have thrown in the towel decades ago. :p
Still, it's nice to know it wasn't personally aimed at me.
I get using treats on something and only for some time. The longest time used them was twice - the first time I taught the trick, and to refocus it. Then I took [the treats away?].
My dogs work for praises - I know they don't work for nothing.
'praise is cheap' - I'm sure U've heard that a few times? -- It's true.
An employer who wants to really express their appreciation does something BESIDES praise - they offer a day off, a bonus, a paid break instead of an unpaid one, a raise - something concrete, not just words.

Dogs only learn to value praise when it's paired with something else - pups aren't born appreciating what 'Good dog!' means, & they'll value it a whole heckuva lot more after it's been associated with food, toys, play, a chance to work at something instinctual, etc.

U can get a behavior in one of 3 ways:
- lure
- shape
- capture

Luring works best with change-of-position: Stand to Sit, Sit to Down, Down to Stand, Stand to Down, Down to Sit, or such actions as spin [clockwise or widdershins].
Shape works best with complex behaviors, or when refining a simple behavior into perfection [a prompt perfect folded-forward Sit to Front on recall - within 8-inches of my knees, & with a nice straight bum - for example].
Capture is best for the impossible-to-shape - such as putting sneezes on cue, or leg-lifting.

While living in Va Beach, VA, i spent a lot of time walking the bike-path between Great Neck & 1st Landing State Park - with or without my dog, or clients' dogs. // I often met 1st time puppy-owners, & since i always had a clicker on me, i'd show them how to lure a sit & down, mark & reward them.
These pups were generally between 8 & 10-WO, altho as 7-wks is legal within VA, some were 49-to-56-DO.
I'd lure a sit maybe 10X, quickly moving from sit to stand & luring sit again, getting off the lure to an empty hand within 5 trials, & then work on down the same way.
The next time i saw that pup & owner, which might be a month or even 2-mos later, THAT PUP WOULD OFFER A SIT as soon as s/he saw me... no cue, no lure, I didn't even need to speak - their butt would hit the ground, their tail would wag madly, & they'd be grinning like fools - "Where's my goody?" was writ large & clear in the thought-bubble above their heads. :rofl:

The owners almost-invariably looked confused - "Come on - what's the matter?", etc. They might not remember me at all - but obviously, the pups not only recalled me, but recalled what they'd learned, too, even a one-time lesson with a long gap between, & zero practice since.

I challenge any aversive / traditional trainer to work with an 8-WO pup for less than 10-mins total on Sit, Down, & "come" a few steps [to get them up from sit or down], using either a 'correction' via a choke-chain or verbal praise as their only forms of feedback - & have that pup not only recall the behaviors a month later with no intervening practice, but greet the trainer with a big grin & a freely-OFFERED 'sit'.
What that pup is more-likely to offer is a tucked tail, & a good view of their bum as they try to go the other way. :eek:

Behaviors learned via pos-R are retained better than those taught with aversive tools or coercive methods - & yes, there are peer-reviewed journal articles on research with the data to support that statement. :thumbsup:

- terry

 
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