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So angry right now. other dog walkers instigating and blaming me

4K views 33 replies 12 participants last post by  sassymomma 
#1 ·
I finally have Shamas to the point where we can walk in our area without him worrying about other dogs and becoming defensive. He even greeted one the other day. So tonight really angers me.

I was walking our usual route, and saw another dog coming: a huge shaggy thing, on a retractable leash. I decided to do "the safe thing" and stopped before the intersection, to give them a chance to go around us. Shamas was leaning towards the dog, but not growling, or showing any other signs of aggression.

This woman, seeing that we were there, and I had stopped with my dog, walked her gigantic dog directly up to him, then screamed at me, accusing me of "playing games" when shamas went defensive in the face of a dog twice his size. She could have crossed the street, even started too..then changed her mind and walked our way instead. She didn't ask if he was dog friendly. Didn't give me a chance to warn her off. Just let her giant on a retractable lead walk right up to my dog, and screamed at us when he got scared and growled a warning. And her dog was growling and harder to handle than Shamas was-he turned away when I told him to!

Shamas released bowels directly after the dog left, telling me the whole thing stressed him out hugely....and we had to bring him home. Now I have to keep him leashed because he's redirecting his frustration on the cats. We're going to take him to Chapters shortly, but I suspect his usual Petsmart visit is out, as he's just had a run-in and is feeling frustrated and touchy.


Now I'm going to have to go back a few steps in his socialising, and try to once again teach him that dogs aren't all threats. He's been doing SO WELL lately :mad:
 
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#2 ·
I'm sorry that was so stressful for you both. I learned the hard way with my last dog who could be dog aggressive that people who have friendly dogs assume everyone else does too and just don't pay attention and let their dogs wander around everywhere.
I learned to either cross the street myself or scream out well in advance "my dog's NOT friendly!!!" Please keep away!!!" And I'd put him against the nearest wall and physically block him from another dog with my own body. I'd also never put him in a sit as that gave him time to plan and spring and pin the other dog by the throat. I kept moving fast reminding him to heel the whole time of we had to pass close. But he'd spring and pin the dog with no warning. He'd wag his tail, lean into pulling to meet the dog, brief sniff, tail wagging and spring and pin it. Dog could be twice his size and he was seventy pounds or more.
He never bothered my cats though.
With my current friendly dog, if I see a dog sit and wait as I'm approaching I'll assume it's friendly and the owner wants to let them meet. I'll still try to ask though.
But every dog is different. She should have asked before letting them sniff or make any contact.
Can you play a fun game with him and try to put it behind you to help distract him and get him in a better space quicker?
 
#3 ·
I know that I'll never again give the other owner the courtesy of allowing them space.

I might have had time to get around the corner and give him room to flee, had we run, but I had the kids with me and didn't know if we'd make it. I know that Shamas can't handle a dog walking right up to him, and normally I put a snowbank or cross the street. I'm trying to tteach Heel now, with difficulty. We're working mainly in Chapters, and Petsmart, as when he hits the street it's all I can do to stay on my feet, let alone take time to train.


Thank you for your insight, I'll keep it in mind as weather clears up and allows me to take Shamas out more. I'm still angry about her accusation, but at least I don't feel as much like Shmas will be set back. He did great training at Chapters
 
#4 · (Edited)
So sorry that you and Shamas had that experience @sassymomma!:(
Don't beat yourself up. The lady was rude and irresponsible in letting her dog approach that way. And sometimes things just happen too quick!
I'm really glad your chapters visit was much more pleasant!

I've come to the realization I should just expect everyone I don't know to let their dogs rush mine (same with being pushy about petting) :( which means I've become way more proactive when out. I avoid many places where I could potentially be trapped by people and dogs approaching. I often just change direction when I'm not headed anywhere specific. If I need to keep going and have space, I'll bubble out giving a lot of room while I pass and keep going. If I don't have a lot of space, I try to move off to the side and might ask for a sit like you did. For whatever reason, some people see that as an invitation when it's not, so I am prepared with a ''No, but thanks'' (much more and people what to start a conversation) paired with hand up in a stop signal. I tend to keep eye contact with my dog(s), not the person (eye contact with the person seems to also often be taken invitation). If they keep coming or try to start a conversation, I'll repeat ''no thanks'' and often walk away. I also teach my dogs to walk on both sides as well as switch so that I can have myself between them and the person/dog. Mine are smaller so I will go so far as to pick up or cue (my terriers) to jump into my arms so I can carry them if needed to get by or away.
 
#5 ·
Wow, that woman sounds like a piece of work! I'm sorry she was so rude to you.

Carly loves other dogs and always wants to play, but since I never know which dogs are friendly or not, I usually am proactive and move to the street from the sidewalk when a person and their dog is coming my way. If their dog is inching toward us even so (Carly will happily greet any of them if I let her) I might ask if the dog is friendly and if she can say hello. If my kids are with me (usually it's my 4 y/o on his scooter) I will have him either stay on the sidewalk or move to the curb while I cross the street. So far it's worked well. And fortunately I haven't encountered any rude owners. Hopefully you won't see that woman and her dog again!
 
#6 ·
I have a dog lead from Friendly Dog Collars which is red and says caution. This might be useful for you? I feel like I'm labelling the dog, so it's just as well he can't read, and it's worth it for the peace. You can also get vests, as well as other things like blind dog etc. Since I've had it for my reactive dog no one has approached, and I don't need to say anything. It's an Australian company but I'm sure they'd post.


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#7 ·
I would be p!$$#£ ! Awhile back we went walking on a trail with both our dogs leashed. A couple with 2 unleashed dogs came walking toward us. We stopped to give them time to leash up before getting too close. They hollered " its ok theyre friendly " we responded ours are not. They did not leash theyre dogs and then proceeded to lecture us about socialization when one of the dogs rudely ran up and got in our labs face and promply got snapped at by our lab.
With some people its always someone elses fault......aggravating!!
What kind of games was the other person accusing yall of playing?? I put my dogs in a sit and let other people go past us with theyre dogs all the time as a training exercise. I dont even see how that can be misconstrued as " playing games " ......
 
#8 ·
I don't know what kind of game she thought I was playing? She just yelled at me for "playing games" I have to admit, I yelled back, I said "I wasn't playing any games, My dog didn't do anything until yours walked right up to him."

Based on what Shadowmom said, perhaps she thought I was indicating Shamas' friendliness by stopping him instead of trying to give the other owner plenty of space to pass?. But based on what I hear from neighbours, she has let her dog walk right up onto Chance's lawn and he was in a fight there too.(Chance is NOT dog friendly, and the whole neighbourhood knows it) So clearly she either doesn't read cues, or doesn't care and just blames other owners when she doesn't control her own dog. It seems like he's a big, in your face friendly type, and has no boundaries. She could have crossed the street, that was the idea. She started to then walked right to us. Her dog growled first, and she needed TWO hands to grab him. I had Shamas under control and walking away with a couple of light tugs.

When I got Shamas, I made him a vest, painted TRAINING on it in bold lettering; he's since outgrown that one. I might paint his current coat too. I had wanted to keep it nice.....
 
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#9 ·
That's really annoying @sassymomma. Some people are just clueless.

I've been fortunate that both my guys had a good start in life, so are pretty easy going, and I STILL don't let them say hello to dogs on leash. People give me the stink eye in my neighborhood, because they are clearly slowing down to let our dogs meet, and I just give them a "Morning" and keep on walking. I don't know you or your dog, and I don't need my dogs thinking we say hello to everyone.

I don't know why people insist dog that don't appreciate being bum-rushed haven't been socialized. My Border Collie is perfectly sociable, great canine skills. If a dog runs up and jumps on her, she's going to be pretty irritated. This is my favourite piece of literature about the " he just wants to say hi" folks:
https://suzanneclothier.com/article/just-wants-say-hi/
 
#10 ·
Such a great article!



I love how that article puts the dog behavior into human situations to illustrate how understandable their responses are int he situations wherein they are labelled "aggressive"

When I got Shamas, I first noticed that he was "aggressive" towards other dogs. But having trained an "aggressive" dog and done extensive research in the treatment of such, I knew that there are many causes for such behavior. In Shamas case, it's low confidence, and fear of other dogs. He's been doing very well since I determined the root cause, and making great improvenment. We took to socialising him at Petsmart, where most of the dogs are also well socialised, and he has plenty of escape routes, and now he often happily meets other dogs of his own choice while at pet stores. I had also reached the point on the street where he would calmly walk by another dog across the street.

Today he pulled towards a dog, and growled a bit...so I walked him away, and determined that his new current threshold is half a block. So it's from here that we start again.
 
#11 ·
I might assume that the person putting their dog in a sit rather than crossing the street or walk away is wanting to let them meet my dog but I still always try to ask.
My dog is friendly but while on the leash if another dog growls at him he'll growl back and lunge and is very strong so I have to be careful about getting too close to unfriendly dogs. If he's loose like in a dog park I've trained him to walk away from a fight and come stay with me. But that took a lot of time and work and treats. His instinct is to be friendly and easygoing but to defend himself and he won't back down if he perceives being attacked by another male large dog. Any little dog or any female dog he'll run away from and not fight.
And for some reason he hates large shaggy dogs, like Newfoundlands and mountain dog types, especially if they're black. He'll avoid them and be fine coexisting in the park but if one growled at him on the leash he'd probably lunge and I'd have a hard time keeping him under control. At one stable last summer there was a large brown shaggy mountain dog that was two hundred pounds that had never been socialized and was always loose and used to run over and just leap on him and crush him and wouldn't get off. He used to attack that dog to get him off of him who never even felt it.
But overall I try to ask or if I'm not sure I'll cross the street or go the other way myself.
 
#12 ·
I'm so sorry that happened to you and Shamas! I can't begin to express how much I dread owners like that.

My dog is reactive towards people and strange dogs, and I've learned the hard way to treat dogs on retractable leashes like loose dogs. Most of the people using that type leash have no idea how to use the break or how to reel in their dog, to make it worse most dogs on that type of leash have no leash manners. If you ever spot the woman and dog again just do a quick about face, that's what I did today when I spot the guy around here who insist on letting his dog off her leash, the dog is a sweet heart but her recall is iffy and I really don't need her walking up to my boy and my boy, who is on leash, starting a fight.
 
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#13 ·
I used a retractable leash with my last dog the entire eleven years I had him. I never bothered to go crazy with tons of leash training. Honestly he was so perfect loose and had literally perfect recall I just let him loose everywhere unless we were going somewhere in the city and he had to be leashed because it was illegal not to. The leash seemed to offend him lol. Like he knew I trusted him loose so why was I tying him lol. He knew heel and was ok in familiar areas with me, anyone else he'd drag around.

I only kept it locked in a very short position and knew perfectly well how to use it. It wasn't hard to figure out. I needed it short to keep him away from strange dogs who pulled on the long six feet leashes and their stupid owners would let them come right up to us even with me yelling he's not friendly keep away!!! He and my current dog were and are much more reactive on a leash to a perceived threat than loose.
Honestly the retractable leash was much better as you can control exactly how much line you're using. I had much more control over a large strong dog than these stupid six foot leashes that my dog will wrap me up and tangle me in, has chewed up eight of, and are easy to drop or get tangled in especially when you're trying to carry things too. And if your dog bolts to chase rabbits like my current dog does he can knock you down easily with the lead and power he builds up on a six foot leash. Ask me how I know lol.
With a retractable leash you can keep it locked short for much better control.
I understand there's lots of idiots out there who are rude and don't take responsibility for anything and don't train their dogs. They can seem to like large dogs just like they like large SUVs, power symbols. But it's not the fault of the retractable leash, it's the person. They're just a training or leading tool like anything else.
I'd much rather be using mine now, but after so many years the lock isn't reliable from wear and tear, and I'd need it to be one hundred percent and not risk it giving out and having my pup running around on the longest length. Way too dangerous in the city. So I'm stuck with the cheap crappy leashes and much less control in an emergency. Plus of course everyone has negative stereotypes about what I found to be very safe and effective. Never had one issue in eleven years and I trained my last dog very well. He was ok on the leash just not perfect. But he was perfect loose which many dogs never are.
He never would have done what the shaggy dog did.
I'm sorry that woman was such an idiot and so rude. I probably would have yelled right back at her, not that it would have helped anything. That was a great article in the link posted, by the way.
 
#15 ·
Try knots




I totally get your thing with the six foot leads. I have a pretty great one with a traffic handle, and I found similar complaints. I tied knots at multiple points down the line, so that I can control how far he's let out. It's much easier to hold a knot than a slippery lead.
 
#14 ·
I've had this problem no matter where I take my dogs. In my neighborhood, I've pretty much learned who all my neighbors are and what their dogs are like, so that's not been an issue. There is one particular dog that is a problem and I usually see him and stay away. It's a gigantic german shepard in training that the owner, even as a bulky weight lifting type guy, he still has very little control over his dog. I've seen him jump on top of his dog to prevent it from dragging him down the road to chase another dog.

Generally, our chow mix is not dog friendly. She's always been friendly towards humans, does not like 75% of other dogs. She especially hates little dogs. We used to walk her and I'd have to put my hand up and tell other owners not to bring their dog over for greetings. This is a dog that has chased down a small black bear to get it away from my husband, but also was once attacked by a chihuahua so I think that's where that comes from. People have been respectful for the most part, but every once and a while I get a rude comment about how I shouldn't have a dangerous dog out. She's not dangerous, she has always listened very well and will stop and sit on command, I don't like taking chances though. Her growl looks like an angry bear. She's old now though, and we only really walk her on our property.

I have huge problems with our youngest dog and other people. He is super friendly, loves everyone, gets super excited about other dogs, but sometimes too much. We take him to the dog park, and as soon as we get into the parking lot, his little butt starts wiggling so much he can barely stand up. He's trained but when he's that excited, we have to do a lot to calm him down, so if a person brings their dog over to meet him, I have to really cling to his leash. He's 70 lbs of muscle and currently I'm 5 months pregnant. When we are on walks, I put my hand up to wave, say hello, and my dog is a very hyper border collie mix in training, and usually people get the hint. Children are the worst though. They will just come running right up to him.

Our dog park is really nice, and we've had bad experiences with a different dog park. The one we go to divides up the dog sizes and has a park employee on staff at all times to keep an eye out for aggressive dogs. They have a sign that states if you can't control your dog or your dog is aggressive, don't bring him in. Baxter is about medium to large sized, but he just likes to run, so usually he'll find a spaniel or lab of some sort and they just chase each other. His best friend currently is a very beefy year old American Bulldog named Blue that our friend owns, the two of them are so ridiculously adorable together.
 
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#16 ·
Yikes! - sorry this happened.

.

I have a massive prejudice - i despise extendable leads, whatever the name-brand might be. :eek:

The "good" ones last a bit longer, but even the good brands can fail, & knock-offs are everywhere.
The knock-offs can fall apart spectacularly, the very day they are purchased - the glue holding the case fails, & the whole thing disassembles as the dog takes off dragging it; the brake or the lock fails, & the dog is free to leap into the street or onto the passing human or k9; the SNAP fails that clips to the collar or harness, & the handler is injured when it flies back & strikes them. :eek:

The bulky plastic handle is hard to hold when it rains, or if yer hands get sweaty; if U lose yer grip, it goes skipping merrily behind the dog with a Godawful loud clatter, & sound-sensitive dogs can be traumatized - they take off like bats outta H*** & try to outrun the scary thing, but of course, it's ATTACHED to them, & they are attached to it... so it chases after them; the faster they flee, the faster [& louder] it follows.
This is no different than the cruel "tie the can to the dog's tail" 'prank' of our great-grandparent's era, when dogs ran themselves to exhaustion trying to escape the following clatter - a frightened animal isn't thinking, they run headlong into traffic or get caught in fencing, when they'd normally negotiate the obstacles. :(

Severe facial injuries have happened when the snap gave-way & the spring-tension on the cord was suddenly released, snapping it back at the handler; ppl have needed multiple plastic-surgeries & skin grafts to repair the damage, & some have been blinded in one eye, or even both eyes.

That's without even considering the hassles they cause for those moving around them, & the damage or upset they cause when they tangle or pull on objects.
Many mature flowering & coniferous shrubs in the apt-complex landscaping were killed [Marina Shores, Va Beach, Va], when owners thoughtlessly let the dogs meander among the plantings, & the cords cut into the bark. // On a knee-high dwarf azalea, a 1/4-inch slice severs the cambium layer.

I can't tell U how many times a display table crashed as an oblivious handler was leafing thru a stack of merchandise on another table, at a Bark in the Park event, scattering brochures, biz-cards, bandannas, newsletters, adoption forms, or what have U, all over the trampled grass [or muddy ground, on rainy days]. Anything stained is a total loss - it can't be sold that day, & the stain may not come out. Mucky brochures are thrown away - & for non-profits who dangle on shoestring budgets over the abyss, that's beyond irritating, it's painful.
Dogs have dragged down a whole corner or side of a sun-canopy, walking away with it, while the owner chats with somebody... :yell: One of those moments when U'd really like to tell them precisely what an incompetent insufferable moron U think they are, & can't.
Instead, U grab the dog's COLLAR - not the bedamned cord, which will slice yer hand up like shaved steak! - & try to limit the damage, while other folks grab the canopy poles & detangle the Flexi.

I suggested numerous times to the hosts [the ACC of whichever city] that Flexis & all extendable leashes be banned, b/c of the hazard they presented in such crowded venues, with many dogs, ppl of all ages & sizes, & so many obstacles to go around or between. // None of them acknowledged the problems, most likely 'cuz they didn't have a booth & never dealt with a post-Flexi disaster.
Dogs went under tables, around ex-pens & crates, around ppl's or dogs' LEGS, around postcard carousels, tent poles, trashcans... if it was there, at some time, it would be entangled.

And over 80% of the folks using Flexis never lock them, IME - even on direct request, in a crowd. They just use the brake, which requires actually paying attn, & they're distracted. :bashself:

I hated to see one coming, & would often leave the booth to meet them in front of the display table to fend-off too close an approach by the dog. // Of course, i wasn't about to tell the handler that!
They just thot i was being hospitable & welcoming, when in fact, i wanted to be ready to intervene at any second. :rofl: Our P.A.C.C. T-shirts & clean crisp adoption forms weren't going into the muck on my watch - if i could possibly prevent it. ;)
Nerve-wracking. // I spent a lot of time, at those events, saying things like, "Mind yer leash...", "excuse me, U're tangled...", & "Watch the dog!" :eek:


I have a scar on one ankle, from a too-close encounter many years ago, when they were new to the market - the abandoned GSD that i'd taken in to re-feed, train & B-Mod was beside me on my left, & coming toward us is a huge Lab-mix towing his owner along at speed, aiming straight for the GSD's face.
I took him behind my back on the leash to put the Shepherd on my right, & told her to pull him back - he was at the very limit of the Flexi. She didn't know how, & he went around BEHIND me after the GSD, who by this time, i had on my left. :mad: The bl**dy dam' dog lunged, i fell, the GSD was pulled atop me, i hung on & kicked the Lab's ribs, & the owner proceeded to abuse me verbally & threaten to sue, while dragging her 90# lug by his collar away from us.
The Flexi-cord had sliced my ankle deeply just above the line of my shoe, outside the Achilles' tendon, right thru my sock - which was also sliced. It didn't bleed a lot, which wasn't good, as blood welling from the inside helps wash bacteria out. // I hobbled home, about a half-mile away, cleaned & dressed it, & limped for over a week while it slowly closed, changing the bandage morning & evening.
I felt i was very lucky that it hadn't been a little to the left, & nicked or sliced the major tendon. I was in college at PSU, & as always, on the razor's edge of poverty; no insurance of any kind, & no spare income.
Even an infection would have been disaster - i couldn't afford a hospital stay, nor any time lost from classes or jobs.


I use long-lines, but i don't deploy them when there are trees, brush, passersby, & other obstacles to get caught on! - so many extendy-users seem completely unaware of their surroundings, & they often don't seem to know how to operate the brake - OR the lock.
I try just to give them a wide, wide berth - even crossing the street to avoid a head-on encounter - but on ped walking paths, it can be impossible to escape or get any setback from the path itself. :( Until i see otherwise, i just assume the handler has no idea how to manage the dog, the dog is reactive if not actually hostile, & respond accordingly - if that means an abrupt U-turn, that's what we do.
Better safe than sorry.

- terry

.
 
#17 ·
I'm sorry that happened to you. But I used mine responsibly and safely for eleven years and locked it in a short position every time I used it. I never had it fail or had any frightening incidents like you describe.
When in occasion I did drop the plastic handle my last dog would freeze and stop instantly as he knew it was not good if he had pulled so hard he'd knocked it out of my hands. He'd stop and guiltily wait for me. But he was perfect loose which many dogs never are.
It's not the fault of any leash or training aid that an owner is irresponsible.
 
#18 ·
Design weaknesses inherent in extendable leashes

.

It's not "only" handler irresponsibility, or even their ignorance - it's also the design of the extendable leash.
If there's a mechanical failure, U can be using it responsibly, & still someone can be hurt, or property is damaged.


from the original maker's website
https://flexi.de/en/advantages-usage/

"SAFETY PRECAUTIONS
The Flexi leash offers both you and your dog great comfort & safety. Nevertheless: Use the Flexi leash solely appropriately!

- Do not use the Flexi leash to tie your dog.
- Never use the Flexi leash other than with your hand.
- Do not grasp the cord or tape, you could get injured.
- Do not wind the tape or cord around parts of your body, you may injure yourself.
- Safety loop:
In addition to the dog collar, always use the safety loop provided. Should the collar snap, the safety loop avoids the cord or the tape rebounding, which may result in injury.
- Check the collar of your dog regularly.
- Walk the dog to heel when other persons or animals approach.
- Only use the permanent stop function when walking your dog to heel on the short leash.
- Children should not be allowed to use the Flexi leash.
- Please never open the casing – there is the risk of injury because of the recoil spring mechanism that is under tension.

Examine your Flexi leash before each use.
Even high quality materials are subject to wear and tear. If the Flexi leash (cord or tape leash) gets wet, please pull it out of the case completely, activate the brake lock, and let it dry overnight.
Remove adherent dirt from tape/cord and casing before you retract the leash. Strong abrasion or damages - often caused by bites - can harm cord or tape. Please do not continue to use a Flexi leash in such a case."

_________________________________________


Note that a few years ago, there WAS NO "safety collar" enclosed with a Flexi, nor was there any notice that minors / children "should not be allowed to use" one. // That's new stuff.
Also, this short list is a much-abbreviated one, the original listed the possibility / probability of serious facial injuries if the clip should fail, & the cord / tape fly back toward the handler's face. // That's all gone. :ponder:


PDF precautions sheet:
http://www.flexi-northamerica.com/cms_downloads/usa/bpz_tape_000114.pdf

- terry

.
 
#19 ·
My original retractable leash still overall works fine after thirteen years now. I just don't want to chance the lock jamming or not holding if my current dog bolts after a squirrel or rabbit.

ANYTHING is hard to hold when wet and slippery, and could malfunction if caked with dirt, and large strong dogs that bolt or pull shouldn't be walked by children with ANY leash even in a harness. My dog is 82 pounds of solid lean muscle. He listens very well to me most of the time, not so much to anyone else.
If he sees a rabbit, rat, squirrel or other dog he could bolt, especially with someone else. He's knocked down several of my adult male friends simply by the rapid powerful unexpected bolt from zero to sixty mph when they never even saw a rabbit to chase and took for granted how good and lazy he seemed. He's only knocked me down once in slippery snow and ice so far because I pay attention and am used to handling thousand pound horses and my last dog was just as strong. I would NEVER let any child walk him with any kind of leash, harness, prong, shock, I don't care if it can stop a freight train.
I'm currently on my ninth and tenth lupine leashes that someone above recommended so strongly. I've had to return several of them not only due to his chewing them but because the snaps are flimsy and get stuck closed and are hard to unfasten. Even more dangerous, they get stuck in an open position once opened. Very dangerous with an escape artist dog! My retractable leash NEVER had any snap fastening issues or got stuck open. Easily quickly snapped open and closed on the most wiggly excitable dog.
I should add that it's very sturdy and well made to last solidly thirteen years on a strong pulling Akita pitbull mix built like a tank and used occasionally on my current dog in his strongest pulling days. Unlike the flimsy lupine leashes that snapped in two in a vet waiting room, the snaps frequently malfunction and he chews through completely in five minutes.

I have owned strong rambunctious dogs who are hard on their walking equipment for the past thirteen or fourteen years now. Lupine has a great return and free replacement policy, because they need it!!! Flimsy cheaply made snaps that wear out in weeks or months. Compared to thirteen years on one retractable leash with no issues except now a sticky lock after eleven or twelve years of constant hours of hard daily use.
Sorry but unless you've used both products as long as I have and consistently, you can't compare the two.

I use lead ropes and bridles on my thousand pound horses that also get constant hard use and wear and tear and the snaps are much higher quality. I haven't had to replace a single one in years unless a horse stepped on it and broke it. That's thousands of pounds of pressure on a snap.

If you don't like retractable leashes don't use them. There's warnings on everything these days for liability. The US is a very litigious society nowadays. Standard leashes aren't any safer and are easy to get entangled and tripped in, or trapped and dragged in. Wrapping the loop around your hand or wrist could result in horrible injuries or death if dragged by a dog and a bad fall or out into traffic.
Any equipment can be lethal and dangerous if misused, it's the person handling the animal. A lupine leash with the snap stuck open can be tragic if a dog escapes and is killed. Both of mine are difficult to close now, and several previous returned ones stuck in open positions. Very dangerous and irresponsible to make and sell that way.

Entitled people who don't care to train their dogs use all kinds of equipment. Don't lump us responsible owners with them and don't say retractable leashes are so dangerous when it's the irresponsible owners that are dangerous and your idea of safe leashes are anything but.
 
#20 ·
If you don't like retractable leashes don't use them. There's warnings on everything these days for liability. The US is a very litigious society nowadays. Standard leashes aren't any safer and are easy to get entangled and tripped in, or trapped and dragged in. Wrapping the loop around your hand or wrist could result in horrible injuries or death if dragged by a dog and a bad fall or out into traffic.


Entitled people who don't care to train their dogs use all kinds of equipment. Don't lump us responsible owners with them and don't say retractable leashes are so dangerous when it's the irresponsible owners that are dangerous and your idea of safe leashes are anything but.
Good points there. One of my husband's co-workers was off for a month because he had his lead wrapped around his hand and the dog bolted. Broke his little bones in the front of the hand. I have some soreness myself from walking Chance(80lb shephard collie down the street) before I got my own dog.
I don't have a problem with retractable leads themselves....My issue is just letting the dog wander up to strange animals, and screaming at the owner who was standing in one place to give you plenty of room to go around. The original owner mentioned didn't even shorten line, there was NO guidance on the dog whatsoever and it walked diagonally across the street. . I actually used a retractable on Shamas for a short while, till I realised it wasn't rated to his size and gave it away. I found his stress reduced, and he was less reactive. Now I tie knots in my 6foot so that I can grip it better without wrapping it around my hand.

I don't believe that equipment takes place of training your dog...but I'm going to state that having the right equipment makes it easier. For example, its hard to focus on trainig while trying to stay on your feet in the snow, and not all have easy access to a training arena. If it weren't for trying new equipment, I'd not be able to walk Shamas at all while I train. I currently use a padded harness and Martingale together with a two ended lead. . I'm trying to teach him not to pull, so I clip onto both the collar and harness. If the collar goes tight, we stop. This is a graduation through other equipment, and one that I'm happy with. We first tried the easy walk harness but he pulled regardless and rubbed blisters under his chest and arms. Then Gentle leader with same results+sneezing and coughing from putting his face into it to pull. At one point he was too risky around other dogs and after an incident involving three seperate dogs in 5 minutes, I put a prong on his so that I could train him and control him around other dogs. . Equipment should not replace training, rather compliment it. and if you can train beyond the need for such equipment, cease using it. I only used the prong for about 2 weeks before graduating him to Martingale.

I'd advise doing your research before trying all sorts of products. I found later that there are lots of claims and plenty of no pull harnesses. And the issue that I had with the easy walk is comon to the point of wondering why they don't pad the harness or change the webbing?
 
#21 ·
I wish they padded more harnesses, very good points. The only padded harness I can find my dog took off in about two seconds the first time I used it. He doesn't do that anymore but it does absolutely nothing for pulling.
So if he sees a rabbit and it's snowing like today I have no control unless by voice and treats. And he's very short furred and never sheds so if he wears his good harness too long he gets sores in his armpit area. He can't wear it all day long.
Hates and freaks out from any kind of head collar and gentle lead and since he's twenty five percent boxer I don't want to risk his breathing.
People say prongs are so bad but he's perfect in those, mine is plastic tipped and never left a mark but he's traumatized from gentle leads and gets awful bloody sores from harnesses and looks like an abuse case. If I leave it on in a field or dog park he won't run or play or move because it hurts. So what's really cruel? Something that I never jerk or use sharply but have just as an emergency brake and he's never known pain from? Or something that gives him bloody sores or he hates or can take off and get loose and killed from???
He wears a martingale collar but has windpipe damage from the pound and last homes so I was clearly told when I adopted him never to walk him just by a collar. I personally don't like leading any animal just by it's throat and neck and prefer a harness, just one that doesn't make him bleed. I only clip the leash to the harness and martingale collar as a backup in a high intensity situation where I'm very concerned about escape, rarely anymore. Honestly I never use the prong either except recently when I fell and hurt my wrist and it hurt so much and he was hyper from not enough exercise that I had no safe way to get him to the car to get to the park in the slippery snow and didn't want to risk my bad knee and need another surgery trying to walk him with only one good arm and one good leg in snow and ice.
I i learned from handling horses it's very dangerous to wrap a leash around your hand or wrist. If a strong animal pulls they can permanently damage the nerves or even cause loss of fingers or the hand.

Sometimes some people just spout off pontifications that have no actual practical reality about safety or usefulness lol.
 
#24 · (Edited)
Petsmart carries a nice harness



Petsmart carries a nice padded harness, if your dog fits it. It's main downfall is that it's a shaped step-in harness, and comes small medium and large, so not much room for adjustment...but if it fits, it's very comfortable and doesnt rub. I walked Shamas around for 1/2 hour in-store before buying it just to be sure that it fits well both across the chest and under the pits. Until I found this I was considering ordering online to get the harness that you buy in three pieces, fitted to your size(can't recall the name right now)

I use a combination approach. Matingale and harness. This lets me lead him when needed, but if he's going to be pulling, he puts the pressure on his chest, not his neck. I have a double-ended lead, of the kind used to hold two dogs, and I use this to attach both the harness and collar for the walk.

I hear the bad about the prong but i believe that it's very dependent on the walker. Properly used, it's very useful, and does not need to hurt. My dad's trainer swears byt them and I have used them myself. I don't need it now, but I don't rule it out as a tool in the future.
 
#23 ·
I can sympathize. It seems like the general assumption is that if you have a dog on a leash you must want your dog to meet every dog you encounter. I call it the "dog park" mentality. If you are at a dog park, it is perfectly valid for others to assume it is OK for their dog to approach yours. That's why you're there, right?

But, some people just walk around with this mindset all of the time. They want their dog to meet other dogs, so they assume you do too. I can't tell you the number of times I have deliberately steered well clear of a dog, only to have its owner practically chase me down. And, they're always on a retractable leash so there is virtually no escaping them.

I get this with humans too. People just see a cute, friendly-looking dog and they think it is OK to just walk up and start petting him. Also, whistling, kissy noises, etc. Drives me nuts.

What's worse, is with my service dog in her vest, it wasn't much better. I would get people walking up with their dogs, and then asking, "Is it OK to say, 'Hi'?" Or, just petting her then asking the same thing. It's like, yes, it's OK. Just push aside the big patch that says, "Do not pet".
 
#25 ·
Training with a remote control? // Oh, U mean an Aibo!...

.

I won't use a prong-collar - any more than water-balloons, choke-chains, air-horns, shock-collars, or "pin the dog".
There are so many alternatives that provide excellent control without any discomfort whatever, anything from a simple front-clip Y-harness to a pre-conditioned headcollar, & i would not risk the bad associations of "Prick!" / dog present, "Prick!" / human present, or any other pairing of nasty stimulus / coincident fact.

Dogs are very context-sensitive, & any inadvertent bad experience can taint something - WHAT was tainted, we won't even know until future circs reveal it. Superstitious beliefs are a pain in the butt when U try to remove them, root, branch, & shoot - i'd rather not plant the seed.

Besides, post facto repair jobs aren't the way i want to train; i much prefer proactive to reactive. ;)

Since i do B-Mod rather than train / teach cued behaviors, the dogs i work with have more than enuf issues, thanks muchly - the last thing they need is another provoking experience, whether it's from a prong collar, a trainer demanding "obedience", or anything or anyone else. // They need a break from bad experiences; a period of clear straightforward communication, where they can't screw up, & nobody sets them up to fail, then punishes their failure.
They are set up for success, rewarded when they succeed, & any failures are mine - or their handler's.

If i genuinely needed a prong to communicate with any dog, after more than 35-years of handling dogs, i shouldn't be working with dogs - IMO. :D
Maybe i'd stick to training Aibos & re-selling them, ready to go, with an assortment of predetermined tricks & cued behaviors. :rofl: Nobody gets hurt when U train an Aibo - & did U notice, they don't enclose a shock-collar, prong, or infinite-slip collar?
What do the Aibo manufacturers know, that we don't?

- terry

.
 
#27 · (Edited)
.

I won't use a prong-collar - any more than water-balloons, choke-chains, air-horns, shock-collars, or "pin the dog".
There are so many alternatives that provide excellent control without any discomfort whatever, anything from a simple front-clip Y-harness to a pre-conditioned headcollar, & i would not risk the bad associations of "Prick!" / dog present, "Prick!" / human present, or any other pairing of nasty stimulus / coincident fact.

Dogs are very context-sensitive, & any inadvertent bad experience can taint something - WHAT was tainted, we won't even know until future circs reveal it. Superstitious beliefs are a pain in the butt when U try to remove them, root, branch, & shoot - i'd rather not plant the seed.

Besides, post facto repair jobs aren't the way i want to train; i much prefer proactive to reactive. ;)

Since i do B-Mod rather than train / teach cued behaviors, the dogs i work with have more than enuf issues, thanks muchly - the last thing they need is another provoking experience, whether it's from a prong collar, a trainer demanding "obedience", or anything or anyone else. // They need a break from bad experiences; a period of clear straightforward communication, where they can't screw up, & nobody sets them up to fail, then punishes their failure.
They are set up for success, rewarded when they succeed, & any failures are mine - or their handler's.

If i genuinely needed a prong to communicate with any dog, after more than 35-years of handling dogs, i shouldn't be working with dogs - IMO. :D
Maybe i'd stick to training Aibos & re-selling them, ready to go, with an assortment of predetermined tricks & cued behaviors. :rofl: Nobody gets hurt when U train an Aibo - & did U notice, they don't enclose a shock-collar, prong, or infinite-slip collar?
What do the Aibo manufacturers know, that we don't?

- terry

.
@leashed for life, I'd absolutely LOVE to take Chance off of the prong. If you can advise on how to work him so that he no longer needs it, I'm quite open to suggestions. It was a first step in training as I did not know much about training at the time that I started walking him, and the owner is not strong enough to handle him. And my dad's trainers all swear by it. The other walker is quite willing to work along my plans, so I believe that instructions left with him could be followed while he learns. I'm still learning myself, and am very open to suggestion to make life better for the dogs that I walk, whether my own or others.

Oh whoops! I'm on the wrong thread. This one has changed subjects a little lol!
 
#28 ·
Update:

Well, I'm literally limited to my own block of my own street now. Shamas won't go the one way, because it leads to one main road. He won't go straight down the street because of the other main road. He won't turn left at the end of my block because of the school, and he now won't go right because of the woman who screamed at us. We went just far enough for him to see where it happened, and he turned tail and dragged me home.

I had been avoiding walking past Chance's house because he's super-territorial, and goes ballistic at the window if he sees me walking another dog...but it seems that's literally the only option that I have left if I want to walk Shamas more than 8 houses without driving out of the area.......walking past Chances house
 
#30 ·
Remove Chance from the window area?

Update:

...
I [avoid] walking past Chance's house, because he... goes ballistic at the window if he sees me walking another dog... but it seems that's literally the only option left, if I want to walk Shamas more than 8 houses without driving out of the area...
.
originally posted by Shandula

Is the owner home when you walk by with Shamas?
That would be a great way for her to work with his over-reaction when people/ dogs walk by his house.
.

or - encourage her to MANAGE THE ISSUE so that Chance has setback from the window -
letting him get enraged over & over & over &... will only make it worse.

he could be:
- in another room, with a closed door between him & street sounds.
- behind "acid-etched" self-cling window-panels used for privacy in bathrooms, etc; no glue, no adhesive left behind.
- tethered or gated out of that room, or simply away from the window.

I don't know the layout of the owner's home, but there should be a way to prevent him "owning" the entire street. :rolleyes:
Maybe the 2 of U can think of a way to prevent exposing him to passing k9s & humans, until it can be worked on - every exposure only digs the rut deeper.

- terry

.
 
#29 ·
@sassymomma - Is the owner home when you walk by with Shamas? That would be a great way for her to work with his over-reaction to when people/dogs walk by his house.
 
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#31 · (Edited)
If it comes down to the necessity of walking past Chance's house, I'll probably text first to tell her I'm coming her way. With her hand broken, the last thing she needs is to have to deal with Chance going insane. And his bench is at the window so he can watch everyone pass. If she knows I'm coming, she can close her bedroom door, and I can pass by the Front of the house, where he wont have access to the window.

Over time, I assume he'd get used to hearing my clicks, etc on the street as I pass by on the opposite side of the road.

Unfortunately, Chance has been alloweed to "own" the street for a couple of years now. Most of us owners avoid the corner altogether between him and the 120lb Lab-Rot on the other side of the corner. Both are routinely chained to their front porches in the summer
 
#32 ·
WHOA! - say what?!?!

...
Most of us owners avoid the corner altogether, between him & the 120-lb Lab-Rott on the other side.
Both are routinely chained to their front porches in the summer.
.


Brilliant. :eyeroll:
"Whenever U can, make any behavior issue WORSE - don't deal with it, don't work to reduce it, exacerbate it."

Has anyone notified the local authorities of these irresponsible owners, who leave their dogs out to threaten passersby, & to go insane with frustration when they can't attack them?
This BTW is the perfect way to CAUSE a mauling by any dog. They are essentially teaching the dog to severely injure someone, when they get the opportunity.
:rulez:

I realize she didn't choose this dog - but she owns him now; & she needs to live up to her commitment, & keep the community safe. :mad: Leaving him outside, chained by the hour, is NOT responsible.

If anyone got hurt, i'd tell them to sue her into bankruptcy - & feel free to show her this post, as I'm entirely serious. // Having an enormous dog "gifted" to U & being disabled on top of it, is not an excuse to park him outside to practice threatening ppl & dogs.
Someday, he'll get a chance to nail an innocent passerby - & her finances, present & future, will be wiped-out.

She's had him for years, not months - & this is a community-wide concern.
- terry

.
 
#33 ·
I don't think there are is anything that can be done, as neither dog is out for extended periods, and neither has actually attacked(that's been reported) i've heard stories, but those are heresay. This neghbourhood is horrible for uncontrolled dogs and cats(20+feral cats that I counted 2 years ago), and Animal control is around regularly issuing citations and picking up strays.. A few minutes ago Shamas was attacked by a little dog that tore out of it's house and went for his throat. He was actually very impressive- he picked the thing up by it's scruff and it hung there until I was able to get around to his face and make him drop it. Then it retreated into it's house whimpering, uninjured. I suffered a bitten finger, but I don't know which dog got me.

I brought him in, looked him over and gave him lots of treats and praise for his restraint..then took him for another walk. The last thing I need is for him to fear ANOTHER place in the neighbourhood. I might do as Dad suggested and carry a spare lead to ward off dogs that come too close for comfort after this week. I NEVER leave him unattended.

The first week we had him, we were at Tim Hortons and a random person decidded to have his not quite dog friendly pair of dogs come and say "hi", then blamed Shamas for being defensive when barked at. And blamed me because I had two leads on him, for training purposes(making him uncomfortable) Within the next month there was the Lab three times, who tried to get him from accross the street and was barely contained by the woman and her Gentle leader, a King shephard(my mistake, I didn't know he couldn't pass that close to another dog) a border collie behind a fence, menacing him. Winter hit he did very well at Petsmart, and as soon as warmer temps hit, he had 2 run-ins in a single week.

No wonder he's dog-shy!
 
#34 · (Edited)
wish I could cross main roads..

I didn't actually realise how many dogs weere in the neighbourhood before gtting Shamas. We generally drive out if we want to do anything. We leave the area for parks and rec, malls and shopping. I think a lot of the other dog owners do too. I know the guy across the street does-I never see him walk his pair of dogs. He comes out every morning and puts them in the car. The kids bus to an outside school. If I could get Shamas to cross the streets, I'd walk him out of the area too. It's much nicer on the other side of the main street....just 3 blocks over.

To be honest, that's my main goal with his Bmod. I want him to be able to cross the street, so I can leave the area and walk him in nicer areas. There's a beautiful, peaceful park only about 30 minutes from home that has water fountains set up for dogs and lots of shade trees. Squirrels for him to watch, and paths to walk on. If I could just get there.......

And there's an hour long trail walk, about 20 minutes walk from home, but we have to walk 10 minutes up the main road to get there. Which puts it off-limits to Shamas
:(

Nothing we can drive to has those benefits(parking limitations) so we often end up at Petsmart to walk him
 
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