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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Barking is a common behavior, & nuisance barking is a common problem.
Nuisance barking is either too frequent, too persistent, or at the wrong time: Ex, 3-AM when the neighbor gets home from work.


GSDs, all the classic terrierrrists, Poms, Chis, toy Poodles, & many companion-types or toy-breeds are highly vocal - meaning they yap for any reason, or sometimes for no reason at all.
Beagles bark - when they're happy, sad, bored, hungry, lonely, _______ .

Many GSDs & Malinois will also talk about the world or their day - whine, warble like canaries, moan, & make other remarks; some, like my friend John Haag's BSD-Mal, can't seem to shut-up for even 30-seconds at a time. :eyeroll: Sheesh.

I'd toss the word 'command' in the trash, & use cue instead - 'command' has a whole lotta emotional baggage attached, from the military sense or royal prerogatives - a dog who "refuses" a command is either insubordinate or a traitor, while a dog who doesn't comply with a cue may simply not have heard or seen it, doesn't understand what's wanted, hasn't been proofed under the circs, etc.
Nobody threatens to hang an actor who misses a cue - not even in a multi-million-dollar Hollywood epic. ;)

Getting barks on cue is surprisingly effective - U need to teach "Speak" 1st before U can install the off-switch, so Speak comes B4 'hush'.
Once barking is under fairly-reliable stimulus control [on cue], spontaneous barks should decrease - & when they happen, 'Hush' should quiet them quickly, unless the provocation is ongoing.
For instance:
if someone rings the doorbell & the dog barks, 'hush' should work unless they keep pushing the button.
Similarly, if someone is pounding on the front door, no amount of 'hush' is liable to quiet the dog.


teaching 'Hush' -
the dog already knows Speak well, & will bark promptly 4 times of 5 single cues [80% success rate].
They're ready for 'hush'. // This requires a certain amount of acting on Ur part; discover that inner actress. ;)

Get the dog slightly excited, & cue Speak; shrink, freeze, eyes-on-eyes with the dog, index finger to lips, & -whisper- 'hush...'
Make it obvious that YOU ARE LISTENING - freeze, hold the pose, fingers to lips. // Most dogs get it quickly.
Mark & reward the *instant* they stop to breathe between barks, if that's what it takes - dogs can't bark AND eat.

Don't expect real-world compliance until they've had a minimum of 3 to 5 days of brief, successful rehearsals -
2 or 3 trials per session, 3 to 4 sessions per day, is less than 20-mins per day, but very effective for learning.
"Sleeping on it" is also very important for learning & memory retention.

the 80% test [4 times out of 5 single cues, they succeed] is the benchmark for raising the criterion.
Add or increase any ONE of the 3 Ds during that session:
- Distraction
- Distance [further from handler / closer to distraction]
- Duration

Remember to stick to one variable at a time [not more-prompt AND straighter sits, but prompt OR straight;
choose one - work on the other in a later, separate session].

- terry

 

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Discussion Starter · #2 ·
self-rewarding behaviors - Desirable, or in many cases, Despicable

Self-rewarding behaviors include some of the most-difficult to reduce / retrain / extinguish, problem behaviors.

- escaping:
every time the dog bolts thru the open door & romps around the neighborhood, or chases horses on nearby pasture, s/he is massively reinforced for bolting.

- chasing wildlife / livestock:
when the dog rips the leash outta yer hand & flies after the bounding deer / paddling duck / backyard chickens at a friend's house / squirrel in the park, it's wonderfully exciting & rewarding.

- mounting Fs / sex:
escaping to find the estrus F he's been whining & teeth-chattering over for 3 days is a monster-sized reward - that genie's not going back in the bottle.

- catching / killing:
for predatory dogs, snagging & killing the critter they're chasing is the Ultimate Thrill; if the animal's too big to kill, grabbing it is next best [dairy heifers in a pen, horses, sheep, etc], so large animals often end-up with lacerated legs.
Small animals like cats, rabbits, ducks, etc, are often killed outright, many by a sharp head-shake that snaps the neck or spine.
Siberians, JRTs, & GSDs are, as breeds, notorious cat-killers - individual dogs may make friends with the FAMILY cats, but don't bet that they won't chase & quite-possibly kill strays, feral cats, or the neighbors' cats -- any stranger-feline that crosses their path might become a target.

It can be really difficult, in some cases practically impossible, to entirely quash these self-rewarding behaviors; sometimes strict Mgmt is all that prevents them, & Mgmt, sooner or later, usually fails.
The visitor leaves the storm-door unlatched, & the dog knows how to nose the handle upward & push thru it; the garden gate isn't locked, & the dog pounces on it repeatedly in frustration, then the latch rattles open, & poof!...


the instinctive behaviors that we like as working behaviors are also self-rewarding:
fetch the bumper for many retrieving breeds; moving stock or chasing wildlife for herding breeds [harassing resident geese as an alternate career for BCs who bite fleeces], trailing or finding scents for scent-hounds [Bloodhounds finding lost persons; Beagles working airports for the USDA], & similar.

Sometimes we can incorporate those self-rewarding behaviors into training:
a bringsel on the collar of a SAR k9 who happens to be a Lab is just a modified version of "fetch the bumper".

Cutting short a herding session for an overexcited Aussie who refused to drop is a great way to teach self-control - drop, & U can keep playing. Chase when U've been told to drop? - Game's over.

- terry
 

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Bringing the teeth chattering stuff over here because I typed a long reply and don't want it to go to waste. Apologies in advance if this is still the wrong place. Maybe there's a tie in for people with dogs who get TOO excited about self rewarding behaviors, and indications of such.

teeth-chattering usually goes with 2 things: Excitement / arousal, & Frustration.

Arousal is just overall excitement - i stipulate b/c some folks think it only refers to sexual excitement, & i had a client tell me his dog "couldn't be aroused, 'cuz he didn't have an erection" - which of course really confused the owner.

Anyway, a dog who sees her best-buddy approaching the house while looking thru the window is likely to become aroused - pupils dilate, BP rises, resp/ pulse increase, she might hackle slightly [piloerection], woof happily, her tail wags, & she bounces toward the door.

Cats will teeth-chatter at the sight of prey - if they are outside, teeth-chattering is only usually seen when they first sight the prey; as soon as they determine an approach & start stalking, teeth-chattering stops.
INDOOR cats will teeth-chatter while watching birds at a feeder, but they don't seem distressed; they don't vocalize, & most won't jump at the window once they realize it sends the birds away. // They want the birds to stay; they want to watch - this is cat-TV.
Nonetheless, the teeth-chatter indicates a certain level of frustration; mild, but it's there.

A dog who loves to chase things, a BC or Aussie, or with a thing for birds, like a Springer or Cocker, might jump at the window nearest the bird-feeder, just to see the birds flare off, settle, return, & s/he can scare them again. It's a game. Some dogs get crazy over it: a working-lines GSD belonging to a client would hurl himself at the patio-sliders nearest the bird-feeders so hard, she thought he'd break a bone... & he'd teeth-chatter like a Spanish dancer with castanets as soon as he saw ONE bird in the yard.
Bear in mind, this is a dog who chased flying leaves outside in fall - thru the windows. :rolleyes: Moving branches in a breeze. Shadows of moving branches, on the floor. Oy.

He'd also teeth-chatter at the sight of the postie coming with the mail, a leashed dog walking by on the city sidewalk [her house was fully 50-ft back from the near edge], joggers, bicyclists, etc - all things he'd like to chase - but he couldn't; the wall, the window, something prevented him from accosting them.
This GSD was dog-reactive, dog-aggro, & stranger-intolerant - he could just barely tolerate pedestrians who WALKED on the city sidewalk past their [unfortunately open-plan] house; he'd bark like a fool & rush to the nearest window to tell them off, but he wouldn't teeth-chatter.
Teeth-chattering was reserved for targets who pushed his buttons - they moved quickly [bicyclists], or made noise [skateboards], or trespassed [the postie] - the ones he apparently wanted to assault, not merely chase off.

The ones he wanted to bite were the ones that elicited teeth-chattering.

Does that help?

- terry

--------

That does help. Thanks!

The first time Mira did it was during an altercation with another dog. He just wanted to play, but she wasn't happy at all about a big, strange dog coming directly at her head on at full speed and she reacted with growling and barking, hackles up and lunging - the whole 9 yards. I was trying to pull her back but the owner of the other dog had him on too long of a leash and wasn't listening to me and her dog ended up in Mira's face. She stood her ground and her teeth were doing the chattering thing. The other dog's owner was oblivious and didn't think there was a problem until Mira snapped at her dog and made him yelp (poor big 'ol blockheaded goofball).

The other times have been with me when, in retrospect, she has been overly excited. Once when I'd just come home from work and was waiting for her to sit before giving her the release command and opening the baby gate that keeps her in the kitchen, but her hyper, doggie brain was having trouble getting her wiggly butt to stay on the floor. So teeth chattering in frustration there, maybe?

The other time was during play time with me and again she was super excited and wanted to put my hand in her mouth, but she was jumping up instead of waiting for me to offer my hand, so I made her wait and she did the teeth chattering thing there. Frustration or anticipation or just really wanting something to hold in her mouth? Maybe I'll try offering her one of her stuffed toys to carry around. :)

She does indeed like to chase things: the bunnies when they run away from her (although if they're sitting still, she play bows and barks at them :confused:), the rope on the end of the flirt pole (when she catches it, she does the head shake kill thing). She seems to like the chasing part of fetch more than the bringing back part.

teeth-chattering usually goes with 2 things: Excitement / arousal, & Frustration.

Arousal is just overall excitement - i stipulate b/c some folks think it only refers to sexual excitement,
Gotcha. Kinda the same way that a dog humping can mean arousal or excitement without being sexual. Mira's done that, too. This is the other reason I don't let her jump on me. It's poor doggie manners in general, but excited + jumping + human contact = her hugging me with her front paws and then trying to hump me. Same thing if I'm sitting down (on a piece of furniture) and we're playing fetch. If I let her put her front paws on my lap on her run back to me, she'll try to hump my leg. :eek::eek::eek:

That's not appropriate behavior for a young lady, Miss Mira. I'm raising you better than that. :p

he could just barely tolerate pedestrians who WALKED on the city sidewalk past their [unfortunately open-plan] house; he'd bark like a fool & rush to the nearest window to tell them off, but he wouldn't teeth-chatter.
Teeth-chattering was reserved for targets who pushed his buttons - they moved quickly [bicyclists], or made noise [skateboards], or trespassed [the postie] - the ones he apparently wanted to assault, not merely chase off.

The ones he wanted to bite were the ones that elicited teeth-chattering.
The bolded bit above is very much Mira. Intruders need to be told off and chased away with extreme prejudice. When the teeth chattering happened with the other dog, I was worried it was a precursor to biting. Less concerned about that now after the other instances since those were (presumably) happy excited incidents.

Thank you for the reply. :)


(LOL at bird feeder as cat tv. :D)
 

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Many GSDs & Malinois will also talk about the world or their day - whine, warble like canaries, moan, & make other remarks; some, like my friend John Haag's BSD-Mal, can't seem to shut-up for even 30-seconds at a time. :eyeroll: Sheesh.
Mira's kindred spirit! :p My previous dog was a Husky/Shepherd mix and I thought she had a lot to say! Mira's easily got her beat. I don't mind all of the other vocalizations, but the barking bothers me.

Ugh, if I go the "on cue" route, that means I have to make the barking worse before it'll get better. Not sure my ears or my nerves can take that. :eek:


As for barking at "intruders" (like the people who live in the house behind me), I'm trying to teach her to bark once and then either come to me or go to her bed. I want to get her into the habit of barking once and then leaving the door to take herself away from the stimulus. Otherwise, what happens is that she'll bark continuously while they're in sight, but eventually they go back inside or get in their car, and I think she thinks that she did her job and scared them off, which reinforces to her that she needs to be all barky and protective and defensive when she sees people outside.

Mira, your job is to bark ONCE to let them know you're here, and then I'll let YOU know if additional action is needed. :p
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
"worse"? - Not usually.

...
Ugh, if I go the "on cue" route, that means I have to make the barking worse before it'll get better. Not sure my ears or my nerves can take that. :eek:
...
not really.
When U cue her to bark, it's no more than once - occ, at the beginning, she'll bark 2X, but that shouldn't persist.
HAVE THE TIDBIT / toy / other, ready-to-go B4 U cue, 'Speak'. If ya whip it right in there, she won't have time for Bark #2. :D

A hand-signal can also help - an opening hand [closed mouth = fingers on thumb-pad, held with knuckles horizontal; open to a horizontal 'mouth' like a toothless gator, fingers flat / together above the horizontal thumb].

Now, if U like, U can cue more than one rapid-fire bark [hand signal, signal, signal...] or one bark, then another, separated [hand signal --- signal].

She can do dialogue. :D Or reply to straight lines from her co-star.
- terry

 

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Teaching a behavior or allowing a behavior and then correcting via a reward ultimately the dog gets rewarded, it's all the same, wrong path to follow when it's undesirable. Dogs at times "train" their humans via undesirable and unwittingly trained behavior displays to get corrected, comply and ultimately they get what they want. If they don't exhibit the undesirable behavior it won't lead to the command to cease the undesirable behavior hence no treat crammed in its mouth. Dogs are smart and know how to train humans to get what they want and most importantly learn through precedent and experience. One needs to be thoughtful of what they are actually rewarding.
 

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I agree with DriveDog if a dog is rewarded for an undesirable behavior by giving it a reward then the dog played the human. For example if my huskies go after a cat and the way I got it to stop going after the cat was give it it's favorite toy. My huskies just learned go after the cat to get the toy and they would most definitely do it again. I only used cats because that's what everyone thinks huskies do is go after cats. The don't especially trained. I had one of my huskies when they were a pup go after a cat I rolled her over on her back growled in her face she looked away( submission) from me to look over at the fence and she never even walked towards a cat she ran away. Now that sounds harsh but I have seven huskies sometimes that's the only way to make them pay attention and stop.
 

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This is true. My previous dog trained me to give her treats when she stole socks from the laundry basket. I thought I was being clever teaching her to bring them back to me after she stole them so I didn't have to chase her around the house to get them back, but it didn't take long at all before she was casually bringing me socks and looking at me like, "Here's your sock, man. Where's my treat?" :p
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Disagree.

Teaching a dog to BARK ON CUE is not "rewarding bad behavior".
We *asked* the dog TO BARK - we are putting bark under stimulus control.

Did U tell Ur husky to "Go chase the cat"...? // No - the dog decided to do that, on her or his own impulse.

Sure, U can construct bad behavior chains - for instance, if i have a dog who jumps on ppl, & he jumps on me, & i ask him to sit, then reward him, i COULD build a bad chain: jump up, 'sit' / reward.
However, if i do it right, i get to the dog BEFORE s/he jumps up, ask for a sit, reward the dog AND give the petting & attn s/he wanted -
that's why he was jumping up. His desire for attn is sated, he's learning to SIT to be greeted, & he's not rewarded for jumping up / then sitting.
No bad behavior chain. We taught a preferred behavior [sit to be greeted].


In this particular case, we have a dog who's a nuisance barker. // We teach her to bark on cue - having done that, we can now teach "stop barking". That's the off switch. // Once she learns 'hush', she can stop barking on cue.
Now, we have controls on both: start & stop. :thumbsup:

Barking is not a "bad" behavior; we WANT barks, but not all the time - we want barks under specific circs.
We don't want our dog barking like a madman at 4-am... unless the house is afire, in which case, YES! BArk! :D

- terry
 

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I will give you a point for that leashedforlive huskies aren't know for barking but mine will talk they say mamma me too and I love you and when I say it's okay but they all howl at 7:44pm everyday it's hilarious I don't do anything I just let them do it sometimes I will do it with them just for the heck of it. My other dogs don't bark my lab and sheltie stay quit and no barking is allowed unless they need to go outside.
 

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Teaching a dog to bark on command does not necessarily go hand in hand with teaching a dog not to bark. The commanded bark is somewhat an unnatural behavior which is trained by capturing the moment when the dog barks normally and then marking the behavior in a positive fashion with an associated cue. Eventually, the dog will bark for no reason other than being cued to bark because of a positive consequence. "Undesirable" barking is the dog just being a dog and the best way to shut it down is to focus on the source which the dog reacts to vocally. I have found that showing a dog the target at which the dog is barking is of no concern or a perceived threat, is the best way to curtail undesirable barking. Dogs can be taught to self regulate rather than self reward if the consequence for self regulating is better than the self rewarding.

Other forms of nuisance barking such as a dog's excitement and arousal of a pending pleasurable event tested my patience and took consistency to finally cure. My dog easily associated my actions leading up to going outside to play/train. Putting my shoes and/or jacket on started the barking, the dog's excitement barking was normal but not desired by me but I enjoyed the anticipation and desire it was building, enter some impulse control training and teaching a dog that its barking does not get the dog its way. I'm guessing there were days when it took 10 minutes for me to get my shoes on because the dog hadn't quite figured it out yet. The moment the dog would start barking, I'd stop everything and be patient and not say a word, the moment the dog ceased barking, I would continue and positively mark. There was no reward except that I would proceed, the dog connected the dots and learned it could bark to her heart's content but it never got her anywhere closer to what she wanted. Eventually, we got to her extinction burst and the light went on.
 

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I don't like dogs barking I go volunteer at the animal shelter in my area and there is a rescue also and this dogs are always barking. I have no neighbors so my huskies howling and talking doesn't really disrupt anyone my brother's dogs however when they come to my home don't bark except to tell me they want to go outside and I wait for them to stop. The sheltie and lab are my brother's dogs. My huskies never get out while they are howling at me to do what they need. Normally water, food or go outside are the three things they howl for but I wait and tell them no they stop. One trainer that volunteered to work with me got the dogs to bark on cues at the shelter so I kind of get both. It's not tolerated at my home but before I give the okay for the dog to leave the shelter they can't bark. I live near a base and barking is not tolerated.
 

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My huskies don't howl unless needed. They normal howl for food, water, go outside nothing else. They talk but that is rewarded with being petted or running around. I don't let them out unless they stop howling and they understand that. My brother's dogs the sheltie and lab don't bark at all unless to tell me they need to go outside but I never let them out tell they stop and if they don't stop the huskies will open the doors to get to them(playing). I had a trainer volunteer with me that used cues at the shelter but we never give the release of a dog until it doesn't bark living in a military community the dog could be going on base and that's not tolerated on base so it's just best to not release tell barking has stopped completely. I don't tolerate the barking at my home. The howling at 7:44pm I do with them sometimes it's more like a release from work I guess it's fun I completely understand why my huskies howl at that time but besides doing it with them it's not treated or noticed in anyway. They don't get to do anything tell they stop. :):)
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
to stop barking in shelters / rescues

I don't like dogs barking -

I ...volunteer at the animal shelter in my area, & there's a rescue, also... the dogs are always barking.

...
I volunteered at the Va Bch ACC, Norfolk ACC, Norfolk SPCA, Chesapeake Humane Soc, & occasionally at Hampton SPCA.

Norfolk ACC is an uninsulated corrugated warehouse - concrete floors, 40-ft overhead, a former city bus-garage.
They averaged over 200 dogs; small ones stayed in 2x2 cube cages on rollers, med & Lg dogs were in either indoor runs 8-ft x 12 ft, or "temporary" outdoor runs with light aluminum-tubing canopies to keep the sun or driving rain mostly off them.
There was no AC, indoors or out - 9-mos of the year, it could be stifling, with high humidity; mosquitoes & fleas are year-round, heartworm is also year-round.
The 40-ft overhead & poured-concrete floors with corrugated steel walls & roof meant an incredible echo-factor & lots of amplification; 10 dogs barking sounded like 100. / Ow.
_______________________________________

Va Bch ACC moved shortly B4 i left the state; i never got to work in or even visit the new building. // the old one, built in the late-50s / early 60s, was long-since outgrown, outdated, & overcrowded.

In the shape of an E, the long side was a corridor, with various offices off it; the 3 wings were small pets / small dogs, & 2 wings of Med / Lg dogs. // Exotics such as parrots, etc, usually stayed in the office corridor, to keep them from the ear-splitting din in the dog-wings. // There was a separate room for cats.
Poured concrete floors, cinderblock walls, concrete bunker roof with a half-attic above under corrugated steel panels. Incredibly LOUD when the dogs barked, which was every time someone entered their wing.
_______________________________________________


Norfolk SPCA is now a "no kill" private shelter; it served for decades B4, as the contractual city-shelter; they finally grew a spine, & told Norfolk city-council they wouldn't do it anymore. Killing thousands of dogs every year, year in & year out, to save Norfolk the trouble of prosecuting pet-owners who abandoned their pets on the street, didn't sit well with their BoD.
Needless to say, this made for very bad feeling between Norf SPCA & the Police Dept for several years, as the city P.D. was forced to open a shelter & run it themselves.

Norf SPCA had originally double-tiers of dog runs; a 6-inch reinforced concrete floor for the 2nd tier was the "ceiling" for the dogs on the ground.

Theoretically, BIG dogs went on the ground, 'small' dogs were on the 2nd tier. In actual fact, they were always so stuffed, many a time i had to lift down a 60# dog whose paws were on a concrete floor level with my ear --- I'm 5' 8", & i still didn't find it easy to wrestle a scared dog off the upper deck into my arms, & thence down to the ground, to get him out for a walk.
Natch, i'd get dog-sh!t & pee on my clothing in the process, as the dog clambered on me to avoid falling to the rock-hard floor. :rolleyes:

When they quit the city-pound contract, they jackhammered the 2nd tier down, removed that overhead cyclone fence, & used some of it to erect play yards outside - with pea-gravel substrate, & paved walks to keep feet out of the muck.
That left them with room for maybe 80 dogs in runs, 25 or 30 in rollway cube-cages, & a room for small pets - cats, bunnies, exotics.
Volunteering was way-easier work, once i didn't have to hoist a dog down from 6-ft above, to the floor. :thumbsup:
But it was still uninsulated, not sound-proofed, all hard surfaces, & bl**dy loud!
______________________________________


Chesapeake Humane was upscale - linoleum floors, wow.:eek: // 2x2 cubes for cats & small dogs; cyclone-fence runs for med & Lg dogs, with concrete kennel floors.
Low ceilings, only 7.5 ft, meant it got both hot & stuffy, & very LOUD.
___________________________________________

Hampton SPCA was also lino-over-concrete indoors, but they had a big barn-like area with dog runs in a separate skeletal building - roof, no walls.
All small dogs & cats, exotics, & some Med dogs were indoors - overflow-med & all Lg dogs were outside, in the rear 'barn'.
Indoors, they had 7-ft suspended ceiling tiles, & cinderblock walls - hard surfaces, lots of audio bounce, LOUD.
_____________________________________________


I showed staff-members at every one of them various ways to teach the dogs to hush their din -
* walk in & WAIT for the 1st dog to shut-up; that one gets a treat. // Every dog who stops barking gets a treat, in the order in which they shut-up. :p

* the VB ACC had a volunteer group, Friends of V-Bch AC; members came by often to photograph new arrivals, write them up, & post them on-line.
They also walked the dogs outside on leash - thus, dogs expecting / hoping to go out, would bark insanely & lunge at the gates, making them crash on the pipe frames & adding to the deafening volume.
The dogs did this no matter *who* entered - FoVB-AC vols, or APOs simply looking for a dog to adopt.

I SHOWED THEM that simply wearing a hat when U were going to walk dogs prevented barking when they did NOT wear it; also, once a hat-wearing volunteer opened the gate on a chosen dog, the others would clam-up.
They thot it was too much trouble to wear a ball-cap. :eyeroll:

* Ches Humane:
I walked past every kennel run when i arrived, walking steadily, making no eye contact, not speaking, & tossed a treat to EVERY SILENT dog. When i got to the end, i turned & went back - same thing.
By the time i got back to the entry door, 3/4 of the dogs were quiet, watching me, tails wagging.

I used just half-pea sized tidbits, one per dog - no mass quantities, no piles of junk-food.


There are many, many ways to reduce barking in confined groups of dogs -most employees, & many volunteers, can't be bothered to do them.
They'd rather wear earplugs, & complain about the din. :eyeroll:

Playing a recording of 'dog laughter' over the P-A system will also reduce anxiety & nuisance barking; again, some shelters can't be arsed.

- terry


 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Neither one.

LFL,
I can't tell if your agreeing with me or arguing your point?? :)
Neither. :)

Simply pointing out there are ways that barking - specifically nuisance-barking in shelters & rescues - can be reduced, put on cue, lowered in volume, lessened in frequency, etc.

- terry

 

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Discussion Starter · #18 ·
more re "teeth-chattering" // Copy / Paste

:) yes, dear.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Shadowmom

One correction, cats who teeth chatter absolutely will vocalize!!!
I've had many cats and still have 2 and every one of them vocalized while teeth chattering at a bird or squirrel.

___________________________________


were they INDOORS watching thru a window or door, or OUTdoors - looking, then stalking?

Feel free to sample UTube clips with the search-phrase, 'teeth-chattering cats' - it looks as tho approx 1/2 of cats indoors looking out, vocalize as well as teeth-chatter.

the cats on our farm [some ours; others, ferals who came simply to cadge food] did NOT vocalize while staring at prey - only chattered teeth, then decided on their vector & began to stalk. // "Our" cats numbered approx 8 - visitors changed constantly, & might total over 2-dozen known cats of various ages, sexes, & colors; maybe 4 to 8 would be stealing food at any given time.

I also observed the many owned & feral & abandoned cats in Ocean View, a Norfolk neighborhood along the bay - they, too, being outside & hoping to score, did not vocalize when they sighted prey.
One night in early-fall, i waited for a bus that was running late; i looked down 11th Bay, & counted the cats as they appeared, crossed the street, hunkered under porches, lurked under cars, etc;
27 different cats, in 45-mins - patched, striped, solid black / blue, tuxedo, U name it... in a 2-block length of that street, while i stood on Ocean View Ave.

- terry

 
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