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When raw feeding, you just need to do some research, and understand what you are doing.
This is true. But there are so many people out there feeding chicken and going "I've been feeding chicken to my dogs for X many years and they're all healthy and great!" There's enough of this that novices are going to see it and think it's okay especially since many people are telling them this is okay.

There is one person posting raw videos on youtube that really made me cringe. Video of her feeding her pregnant bitches tons of chicken and turkey backs, necks, wings, carcasses and chicken hearts. That is at least 70% bone. I'm like wow, is that what you're going to feed the puppies?

What people need to dig up with their research is instances of puppies developing poorly because they were fed exclusively chicken. I ran across an article a couple days ago about this and I'm having a lot of trouble refinding it (to post on here). Yet I come across lots and lots of people going "feed your dogs chicken! they'll love it! they'll do fine on it!"

Too much bad advice out there from people who aren't animal nutritionists. Who is your average newbie raw feeder going to listen to?

Even me, who did a lot of research, and feed my dogs an extremely varied raw diet got resistance to it here. "Over-managing" I think is what they called me. Or was it micro-managing? Overthinking? Anyhow, people *here* went oh you don't have to do what she's doing, that's too much work. Because I care about making sure my dogs are getting enough nutrition? Even still, I feed them small amounts of kibble because it's an unproven diet and I don't want to take the chance.

After a year of feeding raw, I'm finding what the proponents say aren't the results I'm getting. My dogs are *gaining weight* on raw. Perhaps cause I feed them more beef and pork and less chicken? I trim a lot of fat and feed them less than the recommended amount, trying to curb the weight gain.

I like the cleaner teeth and I like the happy bone chewing dogs especially my lab who needs to chew. I'll continue to tweak as I continue to feed raw.
 

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No offense, but clearly you don't know about raw feeding. It's not just putting food in front of them. There is mental stimulation in chewing through a 1 pound chunk of beef, or a rack of pork ribs. TONS of chewing through bone, pulling meat off of bone, or even feeding an entire deer or elk rib cage that takes a couple of days to get through. A whole pig head.....You get the idea. Feeding prey model raw is all about mental stimulation. Even big boneless cuts like a beef heart.....TONS of chewing. That's what they do in the wild. Rip, tear and crunch. There is no more mental stimulation than that. I understand if raw isn't for you, but you would learn a lot more about it if you research it some.
It is, at best, controversial according to experts. And how much mental stimulation does lying down and chewing bones take?

So, I respectfuly disagree with you.
 

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Too much bad advice out there from people who aren't animal nutritionists. Who is your average newbie raw feeder going to listen to?

Even me, who did a lot of research, and feed my dogs an extremely varied raw diet got resistance to it here. "Over-managing" I think is what they called me. Or was it micro-managing? Overthinking
Exactly. For some unfathomable reason, many raw feeders are very lax about balancing the diet. Balance over time is their motto, but this is a very bad piece of advice - for example, if Vitamin A is already deficient in the diet, it will take at least moderate amounts of it on a daily basis to correct that underlying deficiency. So feeding Vitamin A rich foods on a rotational basis will not cover that deficiency, and the repercussions can be very serious. Dogs do have daily nutritional requirements, and the balance over time philosophy can be very dangerous advice. There were quite a few debilitating diseases directly linked to nutritional deficiency before the advent of kibble, and I think too many raw feeders are not taking those risks seriously enough.

After a year of feeding raw, I'm finding what the proponents say aren't the results I'm getting. My dogs are *gaining weight* on raw. Perhaps cause I feed them more beef and pork and less chicken? I trim a lot of fat and feed them less than the recommended amount, trying to curb the weight gain.
I've been doing raw as either a supplement or the total diet for well over a decade. Here and there trouble has brewed, usually in regards to coat condition/loss of pigmentation. But after about 2+ years of goign back to raw, I finally have to throw in the towel with raw as a main source of nutrition, because the old problems I experienced have returned, and it is a constant struggle to maintain nutritional balance and overall health on raw. I'm no newbie to the dog world, and in my time, I have seen an unusual amount of overweight and poorly pigmented dogs eating raw. Perhaps because my dogs are not as young as they used to be, but they were becoming overweight, and chicken was the mainstay of their diet.

I have recently had issues pointing to a raw diet lacking or very low in carbohydrates causing symptoms of low thyroid and vitamin deficiency, despite the variety, organ meats and supplementing (Solid Gold Seameal). The weight literally flew off my dogs on a cooked diet with moderate amounts of carbs (sweet potato, brown rice or oats), and really see a difference in their condition with the meat cooked, and the protein levels lowered with the addition of healthy grains.

In retrospect, I've been re-examining much of the literature and the thought process which first led me to believe raw was a more species appropriate diet, and have been coming up with some interesting conclusions.
 

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It is, at best, controversial according to experts. And how much mental stimulation does lying down and chewing bones take?

So, I respectfuly disagree with you.
Of course it's controversal to "experts". They don't know anything about it.


How much stimulation does chewing take? Put down a whole deer, or cow hind quarter down, and watch all the ripping, tearing, chewing and pulling they do....standing up not laying down.... It's nothing like the "rec" bones you are thinking about that they can knaw on on the living room floor.

I also, will have to respectfully disagree with you as well.....
 

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Anyhow, the problem I see with feeding raw to a puppy is not bacteria but ensuring they get a balanced diet. Too many people feed and espouse feeding primarily chicken to their dogs. Too much bone, not enough variety and nutrients could spell disaster for your developing puppy.


Feeding raw to a puppy is no different than a grown dog, you just feed more. As in at least three times a day. All of mine were raw fed as puppies. I would love to get a puppy one day from a raw feeding breeder who weans directly onto raw.

When raw feeding, you just need to do some research, and understand what you are doing. Which means, understanding that one protein alone, regardless of which one it is, isn't enough. Majority of the time, raw feeding problems are user error, not the dog or the food. The one who is doing the feeding, and doing it incorrectly, whether puppy or adult.

Bouncing off of both of these posts, I just want to say that no matter the age of your dog, if you're considering a raw diet (even partial) you need to research what is appropriate and feed accordingly! No matter the age, breed, condition, or sex of your dog, feeding them an unbalanced/improper diet can be detrimental.

Unless there is a medical reason, no dog should be fed only one protein on a raw diet. Feeding more red meat sources is also more beneficial. And yes, you need to feed MM, Bone and OM, not just toss your dog a chicken thigh once a day and call it good. :rolleyes:

All that said, if someone doesn't feel comfortable, or is incapable of feeding a raw diet properly, I would absolutely tell them to stick with kibble! And feeding an appropriate, balanced raw diet is even more crucial for puppies, especially larger breeds, as the Cal/Phos ratio needs to be kept in the correct range for good development.

Now, I'm a huge fan of raw for my girl, and it has done wonders for her (Even top-quality kibble wasn't cutting it). But all that being said, I may choose to go with a high quality kibble for my next puppy (who will be a GSD), simply for peace of mind about keeping it balanced for a puppy, and swap over to raw once (s)he is an adult. We'll see. :D


There is nothing wrong with feeding raw, as long as you're doing it properly.
There is nothing wrong with feeding kibble, as long as you're doing it properly.
 

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I agree with another poster about all the raw vs kibble threads. You are asking for trouble when you start stuff like that. There is nothing wrong with misinformation or myths being corrected. Yes there is a lot of info out there but if you research throughly you can get a very well rounded view of the different ways you could feed your pet. I read the good, the bad and the downright ugly. Honestly if you know the risk/benefit ratio for all ways of feeding your pet and you are comfortable with one then thats the way you should go. You learn something new everyday and you can change your mind and do something different later. Not everyone will have the same result on raw or kibble for that matter, even though all dogs body systems are the same their body chemistry is not, just like us, and every other living thing. I personally believe raw is the best way to go for my pets since I have seen first hand how well they doing ( 8 yr old lab mix, 13 yr old shep mix, 2 yr old cat, 5 month old kitten). I don't think raw can fix everything but I do think it can give them a good foundation with which to fight other medical or physical conditions that do arise.
 

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How often do you feed your dog a "whole deer or cow hind quarter" ??
Pretty regular. Deer mostly during deer season, but some otherwise too when hunters are cleaning out their freezers for the up coming season.

I have been long time friends with several cattle farmers, and with really big herds things happen. By law, if a cow can't load onto a trailer, they can't be sold for slaughter for human consumption. So, local farmers will call my husband and I. Occasionally, we get sheep too but there aren't many sheep farmers around here.
 

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When it comes to feeding a raw diet, yes.
I feel it is suspect when someone declares themselves an expert. How about you list all the scholarly articles you've written that have been published, where the editor introduces you as an expert?

Anyone can call themselves a dog nutrition expert. For that matter, anyone can call themselves a human nutrition expert, many do, as they try to sell magical nutritious snake oil.
 

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I understand why people that have never fed raw jump in with a negative opinion... But all boils down to feeding what you feel is right for the dog. We've all fed kibble at some point - some of us were forced to take different directions, look at different feeding structures out of necessity. Kibble has always been the mainstay of my dogs' diets over the last 40 years or so, it will never be again. Don't negate the fact that raw feeders have converted from kibble, most times for good reason.

I started feeding raw in December 2014, we had chased every rabbit down every hole for 3 years at that point - all based on vet advice - and still had a sick dog. Raw feeding didn't even really cross my mind, kibble is burned into the brain. Jenny and the group over at PMR were paramount to that transition, so many on the forum offered up their own advice backed by real world experience.

I can tell you unequivocally that trying to break the mindset of the kibble feeding structure isn't easy, I understand why so many people are die hard kibble feeders - and why the opinion is carried. There were many doubts and fears that come along with changing something that's been ingrained for decades, but once you get through the first few months and see the results, all doubt goes out the window. Proper raw feeding - and I do say "proper" - can be backed up in every way. Proof is in the dog and the blood tests.
 

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I understand why people that have never fed raw jump in with a negative opinion... But all boils down to feeding what you feel is right for the dog. We've all fed kibble at some point - some of us were forced to take different directions, look at different feeding structures out of necessity. Kibble has always been the mainstay of my dogs' diets over the last 40 years or so, it will never be again. Don't negate the fact that raw feeders have converted from kibble, most times for good reason.

I started feeding raw in December 2014, we had chased every rabbit down every hole for 3 years at that point - all based on vet advice - and still had a sick dog. Raw feeding didn't even really cross my mind, kibble is burned into the brain. Jenny and the group over at PMR were paramount to that transition, so many on the forum offered up their own advice backed by real world experience.

I can tell you unequivocally that trying to break the mindset of the kibble feeding structure isn't easy, I understand why so many people are die hard kibble feeders - and why the opinion is carried. There were many doubts and fears that come along with changing something that's been ingrained for decades, but once you get through the first few months and see the results, all doubt goes out the window. Proper raw feeding - and I do say "proper" - can be backed up in every way. Proof is in the dog and the blood tests.
What is kibble?
 

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changing something that's been ingrained for decades,
Or maybe people have reviewed the idea, don't want that Koolaid and are exercising their choice to do what they see as the best nutrition for their dogs in their situation.
This is not Star Trek. Resistance is not futile.
 

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Or maybe people have reviewed the idea, don't want that Koolaid and are exercising their choice to do what they see as the best nutrition for their dogs in their situation.
This is not Star Trek. Resistance is not futile.
As I said in the post...

But all boils down to feeding what you feel is right for the dog.
 

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I feel it is suspect when someone declares themselves an expert. How about you list all the scholarly articles you've written that have been published, where the editor introduces you as an expert?

Anyone can call themselves a dog nutrition expert. For that matter, anyone can call themselves a human nutrition expert, many do, as they try to sell magical nutritious snake oil.
I'm not going to try to explain myself to such ignorance......if you haven't figured out yet what I mean, and why I said that, you never will.....
 

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I'm not going to try to explain myself to such ignorance......if you haven't figured out yet what I mean, and why I said that, you never will.....

Yeah, when you are backed in a corner and we see that you do not actually have any credentials to back up your claim of expertise, you sling that nasty mud :lmao:
 
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