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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Dear over-the-fence-neighbour

My dog will NOT stop barking at you if you display aggressive behaviour.

My neighbour was moving some big stuff around in his yard (planks etc) and Ella started barking at him. I went outside and tried to calm her down by speaking softly, giving her treats and telling her "there is no need for this". And in the middle of this, the neighbor shouts "tssst!" at her in a commanding voice. All that I had achieved went flying out the window.

She has been barking at him lately a lot. I can see why now. Why is a person`s first reaction to a distressed/hyped dog to raise their voice and act in a commanding/aggressive way?

If he would have said "Oh Ella stop that" in a normal/friendly voice she would have shut up in 2 seconds.

Since I am a nice person, I brought her inside and will keep her in here until he finishes moving his planks around.

He is a very educated and intelligent man. Shame he doesn`t know much about dogs. He has a cane and I once saw him drag the cane against our fence as he walked by .... my landlords dog went absolutely ballistic.....
 

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Ignorance on the part of the human. Has he been aggressive towards Ella before?

Ella heard a strange noise, she did want comes natural to her.
 

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I would have been right at the fence line and first apologize for the dog barking, but then be asking him (nicely) to please not raise his voice, as that only has the opposite affect on my dog. I would then asked him - right there in front of me - to try to talk friendly to my dog and just see the difference it makes in calming the dog down. That really...if he want's the dog to stop barking, it's a calming voice not a 'commanding' or 'harsh' voice that the dog has been TRAINED to respond too. And that if he would just do that...you would be grateful, and he wouldn't have to deal with a dog that was suspicious and afraid, and thus barking at him.

Some people might ignore the advice but others might give it a try and find out that talking pleasantly to a dog works. Some people do the things they do because they just don't know better, or only learned 1 way to do things...but if pointed out that an animal has been trained differently, they might go along with it and try another way. Don't imply that he's so much 'wrong' in what he's doing...just that your dog has been trained differently...and will respond to calming signals.

Stormy
 

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Yes - what Stormy said!

Obviously, your neighbor hasn't learned much about dogs, but that's pretty common among the general public. I'd take this opportunity to talk with him. A pleasant conversation could go a long way.
 

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That's Cesar's thing, that sound. On Facebook, Zak George, who actually knows something about training dogs, has ~50,000 fans, and Cesar has more than 7,000,000. So you're going to get a lot more Tssting than reasonable behavior.
 

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That's Cesar's thing, that sound. On Facebook, Zak George, who actually knows something about training dogs, has ~50,000 fans, and Cesar has more than 7,000,000. So you're going to get a lot more Tssting than reasonable behavior.
Not that anybody who watches Cesar's show knows anything about dogs. If they did they'd realize that his (it's not his, trainers have been doing that since before anyone knew who CM was) "tssst" sound works because it's providing information to a dog who is being worked by CM. It has a near 0 chance of getting a dog barking at a stranger from behind a fence to shut up.
 

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Not that anybody who watches Cesar's show knows anything about dogs. If they did they'd realize that his (it's not his, trainers have been doing that since before anyone knew who CM was) "tssst" sound works because it's providing information to a dog who is being worked by CM. It has a near 0 chance of getting a dog barking at a stranger from behind a fence to shut up.
Well, sure, any dog trained like that will realize that "tsst" means "stop it or something bad will happen", but people who watch that show think it's some kind of magic, because that's how it's presented.
 

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Well, sure, any dog trained like that will realize that "tsst" means "stop it or something bad will happen", but people who watch that show think it's some kind of magic, because that's how it's presented.
CM is probably a good thing to happen to the pets on his show, but he is the worst thing to have happen to pets in general in recent times. Since I've never had TV, I had never watched a dog whisperer episode before last year when a girl who was at a barbecue at our house heard me use the "tsst" with simbaand she said, "ohhh you do the same thing as CM" then his name came up on here at almost the same time and I started watching some of the episodes on youtube.

Kind of entertaining if you look at it just from that aspect, but terrible if you look at them as educational.

The problem is that Cesar Milan often gets results, but has absolutely no idea how he gets results and his results aren't replicable. He has tons of experience and probably a strong natural affinity for dogs but that's something you can't teach. Watching the dog whisperer reminds me of watching some non-tv chefs on tv be put on the spot when the interviewer or an audience member asks them "why" they did something the way they did and they stammer out some utterly non sensical answer.
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
CM is probably a good thing to happen to the pets on his show, but he is the worst thing to have happen to pets in general in recent times. Since I've never had TV, I had never watched a dog whisperer episode before last year when a girl who was at a barbecue at our house heard me use the "tsst" with simbaand she said, "ohhh you do the same thing as CM" then his name came up on here at almost the same time and I started watching some of the episodes on youtube.

Kind of entertaining if you look at it just from that aspect, but terrible if you look at them as educational.

The problem is that Cesar Milan often gets results, but has absolutely no idea how he gets results and his results aren't replicable. He has tons of experience and probably a strong natural affinity for dogs but that's something you can't teach. Watching the dog whisperer reminds me of watching some non-tv chefs on tv be put on the spot when the interviewer or an audience member asks them "why" they did something the way they did and they stammer out some utterly non sensical answer.
This times 100. Ella is my first dog so of course I stumbled upon CM when I started searching dog training. I remember driving 2.5 hours to visit my family and listening to his podcast the whole time ... all I could think was "When is he getting to a point?".

He is all hot air and almost no logical points. A showman. He is very charismatic and builds on that I guess. As someone with a degree in philosophy (hello critical thinking) I just couldn`t stand listening to him. It could have been entertaining but labeling such empty hot air educational is wrong.

Plus my instincts told me that Ella would turn out to be either an aggressive or very shut down dog if I used his methods. (well the few I could pinpoint in that hot air mess)

Thanks Dog Forum for saving us :)

PS I did and still do like his idea of "exercise, training, love" - in that order. I also like how he explained that humans often give only love to dogs and can`t see that its making the dog unhappy.
 

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Secrets, you mean "exercise, dicipline, affection"? I don't think dicipline and trainng is quite the same thing, especially not in CM's book.
But on a slightly different note, and more along the lines of your neighbour, why do some people Think it's ok/ good/ right, heck maybe even cool to try and call an even slightly aggressive dogs bluff?
My uncle, his partner and his two sons came visiting again this year. They come once a year for four or five days to visit the farm where uncle grew up and we now live. Now my dogs don't like strangers, which especially the sons are to A great extent to them. So they always bark at them and generally just threaten them. Wednesday afternoon they were walking back to the "cottage" converted garage where they sleep, youngest dog Meg is barking, and suddenly eldest boy notices Zorro have a strange look about him. What does he go and do? Yell Bah! At the dog. Who immediately reacted by nipping him, riling up the others who are now circling in the way only five BC's can do. Boy starts kicking and dancing, thankfully I was outside still and managed within seconds to catch Zorro and tell boy to go inside and for heaven's sake stay there till everyone's calmed down.
If he had just kept his mouth shut, the dogs would have let him continue, but no he had to go yell at the dog!
 

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Discussion Starter · #11 ·
Secrets, you mean "exercise, dicipline, affection"? I don't think dicipline and trainng is quite the same thing, especially not in CM's book.
But on a slightly different note, and more along the lines of your neighbour, why do some people Think it's ok/ good/ right, heck maybe even cool to try and call an even slightly aggressive dogs bluff?
My uncle, his partner and his two sons came visiting again this year. They come once a year for four or five days to visit the farm where uncle grew up and we now live. Now my dogs don't like strangers, which especially the sons are to A great extent to them. So they always bark at them and generally just threaten them. Wednesday afternoon they were walking back to the "cottage" converted garage where they sleep, youngest dog Meg is barking, and suddenly eldest boy notices Zorro have a strange look about him. What does he go and do? Yell Bah! At the dog. Who immediately reacted by nipping him, riling up the others who are now circling in the way only five BC's can do. Boy starts kicking and dancing, thankfully I was outside still and managed within seconds to catch Zorro and tell boy to go inside and for heaven's sake stay there till everyone's calmed down.
If he had just kept his mouth shut, the dogs would have let him continue, but no he had to go yell at the dog!
Yes, unfortunately it seems that a lot of people`s first reaction to a dog is to try "discipline" it or scare it to submissiveness. I always cringe inwardly when I see or hear people barking at their dogs. Feel bad for the dogs plus somehow get secondhand embarrassment for the humans ... just have some respect to yourself and stop screaming like a barbarian. It`s a pity people try to solve problematic situations with negative force. Why act like a tyrant when you can achieve what you want with positive methods and no negative consequences.. sigh. Sometimes it almost feels like these people have severe ego / self-esteem issues and try to somehow feel better about themselves by acting superior towards dogs/exercising their "power" on them. Embarrassing.

Although probably it is just mass-thought-pattern that will hopefully change in time. Kind of like people thought it was ok to keep slaves for centuries or mistreat the weak/poor/different people.
 

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I think what puzzles me most about this kind of behavior is why so many people think it's their right/responsibility to discipline another person's animal when that animal is not in immediate danger of hurting anyone. Are they so intimidated that they think it's a proportional response, or what? (I know my #1 response to a barking dog is not to try and get it cowed, though I might resort to that if I thought the dog were really trying to come at me no matter what.) Do they assume they are unilaterally better able to train any dog they see misbehaving than whoever owns the dog and is handling it?

If the behavior is annoying at maximum and the owner is right there I consider it both counterproductive and disrespectful not to ask them to deal with the problem. They know the dog and the methods that work with it, and might not appreciate someone else's flamboyant interference.
 
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This is what I'm going through right now with various, various strangers. My 12 week old puppy loves people, and goes crazy when there's a person. He wants to say hi and give them some love. No barking thankfully just overly excited, nub wags, jumping and tugs on the leash. I've been trying to train him to be polite. No jumping, approach nicely, and be calm when there's strangers.

Well, it's not like I can blame people, but when they do see him it goes a little like "OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOH MY GOOOOOOOOOOOOOD SO CUTE!! HI!!!!! *highest voice ever* OMG OMG OMG HI HI HI PUPPY YOURE SO CUTE AND SOFT OMG [email protected][email protected][email protected]"

Everything I've trained him so far goes out the window. He's still a puppy and he can't help it so I'm not expecting much nor do i strictly enforce it. He'll learn over time, but still, it's hard to tell people (or have them to follow through) to ignore this cute stubby legged soft nub wagging tiny baby dog until he's calm.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
My favorite of all times: human waving their hands madly and screeching in a high voice to get a dog calm down and stop jumping.

But yeah... seems dogs are "public property".
 
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