[wobblygarlilly]

Hi everyone, I'm new to this forum. Have posted this on a Irish forum but it's taking days at a time to get a reply and my patience just isn't lasting out that long! So I will really appreciate any advice I can get here before I go crazy!

Ok, so I have a 10 week old Samoyed/Springer cross, she's been living with us since she was 8 1/2 weeks. She is my first ever puppy and have been preparing myself for all the ups and downs but this one problem is really wearing down on me! I originally had her in a crate and she kept weeing in it anytime I left the house (for a max of 2 hours and not every day) and at nighttime. She lifted up the blankets, did a wee and covered it back up. I figured seems she was doing this anyway I'll put her in a playpen, at least I won't have a load of blankets to wash and she'll have the space to get out and not soil her bed if needs be. The first day of this proved to be a complete failure, she still did a wee in the bed and on the floor in the space of 20 minutes while I had a shower and continued to do it for the next day or 2. We had a really bad weather here so she wasn't getting out very much and she is a very active puppy. When the weather dried up and she could spend loads of time out in the garden the problem seemed to go away, we had a whole day and night without accidents and got through most of the next day without them as well, at least they weren't in her bed! when she was in the crate I was getting up every 2 hours to bring her outside. Her first night in the playpen I slept through most of the alarms (oops!) and she woke up once crying so I brought her out and that was fine, no accidents. So then I figured I'll just set one alarm at night to bring her out. How wrong I was! She was waking up crying more than ever! I'd bring her outside and she did nothing then when I got up this morning she had done a wee on the training pad and 2 in her bed. She's now managed to wee on her bed, cushion and all her blankets. I don't have a drier so she's going to have to spend today and tonight sleeping on a cold laminate floor. Really don't know what to do about this problem. Do I go back to getting up every 2 hours? or put her back in a crate with no bedding? am starting to get really frustrated with it and finding myself snapping at her for doing all the things puppy do.
She's a big pup so really thought she'd be well able to hold it for a while at night and certainly for 20 minutes during the day. Normally when I'm home all day she's held it for at least 2 hours. I bring her outside every hour but she doesn't always go. Really really don't know what to do. Please help!!!!

 

[Tess]

I'd start by getting her checked for a Urinary Tract Infection. This may be the heart of the problem.

 

[wobblygarlilly]

Thanks Tess for the quick reply, I'm bringing her to the vet on Tuesday for her second round of shots so will ask about it then. Only think is if it was a UTI would she not be weeing more often? When she's out of the pen she'll always got to the back door if in the kitchen or he sitting room door if we're in there to be brought outside. now sometimes she does this just to get out and have a wander but the only time she has an accident when out of the pen is if I'm not supervising her properly and don't see her waiting my the door. She doesn't bark or scratch at the door or anything so really do need to watch out for when she goes there. I was reading on another thread that puppies like to wee on something absorbent, could this be the issue? Once the training pad is wet she doesn't want to use it anymore? I did have newspaper covering all the floor in the pen her but she just kept eating it so took it up and she did use the the training pad. maybe if i put down another one or 2 training pads or be more vigilant with changing them?

 

[Squirrelflight]

I would remove the blankets and stuff without supervision for awhile. You can get one of those 'crib pads' that lay down under the sheet. These are soft and nicer than laying on the floor but when peed on they 'puddle up' so she may not like to pee on it as its not quick absorbing.

I use those pads all the time with my dogs. Under pee pads to protect my floor from run off.. on the ottoman under a blanket 'just in case', lining the crate... They are wonderfully useful. You can get them at walmart and places or you can sometimes find them in thrift shops or yard sales. I never pass them up at a good deal and have several of them. I even have a cut section of one under their doggie dishes.. lol

Also soak anything peed on in a vinegar and water solution before washing it to help remove urine odor.

 

[wobblygarlilly]

Thanks for the advice Squirrelflight. Think I still have a couple of those in the house somewhere from my little one. I have a feeling though that she'll still just fold it over, do a wee and put it back down again! When she wees in the bed she's making sure that she won't be lying down in it! Last night she had her bed with the cushion in it and i wrapped a blanket around the bed in the hope that she wouldn't be able to pull it up without getting out of the bed herself. How wrong i was! She managed to pull up the blanket, did a wee (twice!) and cover it back up nicely with the blanket. Will try it out anyway and hopefully she won't do the same again!
I think I'll start getting up every 2 hours again (grudgingly!) and gradually stretch it out. I have to admit I didn't do it gradually the last time. I just slept through my first alarm one night, got up for the second one and brought her out and there were no accidents so assumed I could get away with that every night! Am heading out for a couple of hours in a little while so will put down one of those crib pads and see how she gets on, will stick down a second training pad as well to be safe. She won't have much room for playing in there with all that in there but not much I can do about that!

 

[Tess]

If you've been scolding her for "accidents" then that can create all sorts of problems... puppy waiting until you are not looking to wee... puppy weeing in bed because you aren't there to scold her... puppy not weeing when you take her out because she has learned that weeing in front of you is dangerous.

Once you know for sure she has no UTI, then I'd start all over again with the potty training. The basic principles are...

1) prevention of accidents: keep her with you on a leash or in her pen.
2) Reward for "success". A success is when you take the puppy out to her potty area, on a leash, she pees AND you give her a treat IMMEDIATELY.. that is within 1 or 2 seconds (so keep the treats in your pockets at all times.)

If she has an accident, just clean it up without comment.

What I tell people is to put a penny in a jar for every "success". Take 5 pennies out for every accident. When you get to between 100 and 200 pennies, the puppy should be pretty well house trained.

Accidents happen because the the puppy is not well enough supervised, not taken out often enough, has a UTI, or is very confused because she has been punished and is now trying different things to avoid punishments.

Potty training is not a "revelation" for puppies... as in "Oh, I get it, I'm supposed to pee outside!" They don't learn that way.
Potty training is a HABIT that you teach through repetition and many successful/rewarding experiences. Once the habit is established it is very strong.

Hope some of that helps!

 

[Tess]

Not to be a contrarian, but my own opinion is to house train the puppy directly to peeing outside. Skip the pee pads, especially for a dog as big as yours will be.
(If I had chihuahuas, like SquirelFlight, I'd feel differently, but your dog will be full sized and you don't need full sized puddles in the house.)

Pee pads confuse the issue, as you are training the puppy to pee indoors, and outdoors.

Keep it clear, simple and fun for the puppy.
"We pee outside, in this place in the garden, and get a delicious treat and praise!"

That's it. Do it a hundred times, and she'll have it! It shouldn't take more than a couple of weeks, a month max.

 

[wobblygarlilly]

Hi Tess, thanks for the reply. During the day on days when I'm home all day she has no accidents and even sits by the door to be let out. She is even starting to get the "go toilet" command when I bring her out without her "asking" to go. It's literally just when she's left on her own for any period of time.

I only put a training pad in the playpen when she's being left unsupervised, no where else in the house. Also cos I hoped if she had the peepad there she'd use that instead of her bed! I had newspaper down on the whole floor of the playpen but she just kept on eating it and leaving more of a mess than an accident would! When I do wake up or come home to a mess on the pads or in the bed I just put her outside to play (if it's not raining!) and clean it up.

I will be honest in saying I have shouted at her the odd time when she's had an accident when I've been tired or something else has been on my nerves. But it really don't think she's trying to hide it as she had absolutely no problem going in front of me on the sitting room floor today when I was too lazy to get off the couch straight away when I saw her at the door! Am going to bell train her to tell me when to go outside as the only warning she gives is to sit quietly at the door for a few seconds.

I probably have been a bit lax on the supervision the last few days just because I'm tired (a 3 year old child and a puppy are hard work on your own!) and the weather has been miserable here (good old Ireland!) Sitting on the couch is so much more attractive than standing in the cold and rain telling a puppy that wants to go run around to "go toilet" lol. As does staying in bed!

I keep a pouch of treats attached to me at all times to reward her when needed and have been giving her a treat when she goes outside. I mix it up with treats and praise sometimes and praise and a good play other times. I havn't been giving her treats at night and literally just out and back in to bed so maybe if I give her treats at nighttime as well?

I do agree with going back to basics, especially with keeping to a strict schedule. I really do need to go back to bringing her out every hour and every 2 hours at night until we have a few accident free days and nights! I'll start the 2 hours tonight (grudgingly! lol)

Do you think I should take the pee pads out of her pen altogether? I'd be worried she'll just go in her bed if I do. When I do go out it's for 2-3 hours and I don't really expect her to hold it that long yet and I know she won't and she'll just use her bed instead. The same if I miss an alarm. I really couldn't see her settling down for a nap or for a nights sleep on the floor (nor would I really expect her to!) I don't use the pads anywhere else in the house and she's only allowed in the kitchen and the living room anyway and only when I'm in either room. I keep her mainly in the kitchen during the day and keep the door open when it's a nice day as she's way happier when she can get outside to have a good run around and she will be spending more and more time outside as she gets older.

I really like the pennies idea will definitely try that out! Thanks for the advice!

 

[wobblygarlilly]

Ok so it is now 2.40 in the morning here, I tried the crib pad putting her to bed tonight at 10.30.woke up at 12.30 to bring her out and she did a wee. Went back to bed. An hour later she started crying which soon turned into barking, this went on for a good solid 45 minutes, in which time my 3 year old woke up and started crying. went into puppy at 2.30 to bring her out and she had done a wee on the crib pad so took it out along with the pee pad which was dry. Took her outside, did nothing. Put her back to in the playpen and she has been barking since. Really really at the end of my tether here. I'm exhausted, angry,upset and starting to regret my decision to get her in the first place. I honestly don't think I can take this for another night.
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[wobblygarlilly]

Started crying again an hour later so brought her outside. didn't do anything again. If I ignore the crying she wees in the pen and if I don't she doesn't wee outside. I'm really at a loss at now! So overtired and wound up I can't even sleep
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[Tess]

Sounds like you are truly doing things quite well. You are in the heart of the tough period for a young puppy. Have faith! They do grow up very quickly!

Some points.
- puppies sometimes choose a bed to pee in if they need to go and cannot get outside because they prefer absorbent surfaces. If you know she may be prone to an accident because you will be gone for a while, you may choose to take away the bed and replace it with an easy to launder towel.

- As far as the fussing at night, that may be fixed with more exercise during the day. Puppy's needs change quickly, so what was "enough" exercise last week, may not be enough this week. If you can get the puppy outside for off-leash romps in the yard or fields that may help. If the weather has been too nasty to get her outside, then that may be why she is so restless at night. Puppies generally outgrow their aversion to the rain, so this won't be a life long problem.

- Hang in there. Remember the tough times you went through with the baby and at 3 years he/she is now a lot easier. Same thing will happen with the puppy. In fact, babies and puppies are remarkably similar!

Good luck. Do keep us updated!

 

[Tess]

Started crying again an hour later so brought her outside. didn't do anything again. If I ignore the crying she wees in the pen and if I don't she doesn't wee outside. I'm really at a loss at now! So overtired and wound up I can't even sleep
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She may be taking her cues from you. If you are uptight, she may not be able to relax enough to "let -er wiz." Although you only shouted at her a couple of times for pee accidents, that is enough to make these problems.

You can turn it around though. Get in the habit of giving her a treat EVERY time she pees outside. That will help a great deal. Make sure it is a "High Value Treat" ... that is something she really likes. A couple of days of being consistent with this, and you should be able to get her to pee outside at night, even if you are tired and grumpy!

There are tough nights in puppyhood.... but they are finite in number!

Hope you get some rest!

 

[wobblygarlilly]

Thanks again Tess for the reply. She's actually not that bad with rain anymore (living in Ireland she'd need to be used to it! ). Some of the days though it's been too awful to be outside. I nearly had a pond building up at the end of the garden the rain was so heavy one of the day. On nice days though I spend most of my day in the kitchen and leave the back door open for her to run around and she pops in every now and again for a little pet and cuddle and she's off again exploring around the garden.

Come around 5 or 6 in the evening then she gets a super burst of energy and runs around like a lunatic, have to keep my daughter away from her cos she just jumps up on her constantly and bites at her clothes. Then she crashes, which suits me to an extent for getting Saoirse (my daughter) to bed without listening to her crying in playpen. I give her her last meal then at 8 and it really is such a struggle to keep her awake and active until 10.30. She constantly doses off and just flops her head in my lap in the middle of games.

I was nearly in tears this morning cos she was barking for an hour and half straight, but then I realised that was actually my fault. The clocks went back an hour here last night, I set the one on my phone back before I went to bed but it also did it itself automatically at some point last night! oops! So that could also have had something to do with the accident and the barking as well. Depending on what time the clock on the phone went back, she could have been waiting 3 hours rather than 2.

 

[jadababy]

Check her for Urinary Tract infections, my dog kept getting them and had about 13 infections, until I did a surgery called 'Vulvaplasty'. Its when there is too much skin covering the vulva, and dirt and bacteria keep getting in there and giving an infection. surgery was a success. Every time she got an infection, it costs $250 for medicine!! Also, try monitoring her water intake. Maybe cut back on that and see before spending money at the doctor. Also make sure the crate she is in is small, and almost only fits her, don't put food or water in it. The more space they have in their cage, they will go to the bathroom. The less space they have, will make them hesitant because they do not want to lay in it!

 

[wobblygarlilly]

hi jadababy, am bringing her to the vet anyway on Tuesday for her second round of vaccinations so will inquire about UTI then. Will I need to bring a urine sample with me? However I really don't think that is the problem as our daytimes are going really really well. She has practically no accidents and goes to the door when she needs to go. She's not showing any sign of discomfort when urinating either. I leave water out for her all day and she has no more food or water past 8pm. She goes to bed at 10.30pm.
I did have her in a crate that was small enough but she still wee'd in it so I decided to use the playpen. As I said before I don't expect her to hold it for any longer than she can and I personally think that 2-3 hours during the day while I'm out of the house is too long. She's also a big and very active puppy and tries to dig and jump her way out of a crate so she'l liable to hurt herself. She definitely has the Samoyed characteristic of finding a lot of comfort in the company of humans, yet another reason the playpen works better for her as she can get up and walk around it as I'm going from one end of the kitchen to the next. I know that crate training works very well for some people but I don't think that it is for Freckles and me. It didn't matter how small the area was, she still wee'd on the blankets and then covered it up so she'd stay nice and dry.

 

[Squirrelflight]

I'm not an expert and not everyone may agree with me here. But my advice to you is to work on potty training during the day very intensively for the time being and at night put her further away from you in her crate and just clean her bedding in the morning.

In my opinion, the amount of frustration you are feeling, the lack of sleep, is simply not a good working situation. Get a good week of good sleep, take some time to just enjoy the puppy. work on potty during the day when you can supervise easier and give nightime training another go when day time is doing well and she is older and you have recovered.

What you are doing for some crazy reason isnt working and I think the lack of sleep and frustration is doing more harm than any good you are getting from this routine.

So again, others may disagree but I would just let her wee in the crate at night and get some sleep so you stop feeling so horrible. Sleep deprivation really makes life harder and its building resentment.. probably more than what washing a blanket a day would cause. <hugs> to you and I really wish i could 'pet sit' for you so you could just sleep,

Edit: did not see others responses before mine. So not discounting what anyone else is saying. They do know more. Just saying if it gets to a point where you are miserable with your dog because of lack of sleep and nighttime training its OK to take a break from it and take care of yourself too!!!

 

[wobblygarlilly]

Aw thanks Squirrelflight! At least when my little one was a baby I had someone to take her at least once a week and I could just take naps with her when I was shattered tired! lol
Unfortunately if I'm not getting up she's barking so getting even less sleep! She sleeps in the kitchen now anyway. She was sleeping in my room for the first week or so but when I moved her into the playpen she started sleeping there instead.
This is definitely one of those times that I wish I liked coffee to keep me going during the day!

 

[jadababy]

Hi, yes, you will need to bring a urine sample with you to save you another trip to the vet. If you haven't already, it would be a good idea to also bring a fetal sample with you as well. Because she is a puppy still, it would be good to bring a urine sample and fecal sample. Fecal sample to detect if she has worms or parasites, as to most puppies do!! Keep us posted!! You can just put the sample in a toss-and-throw plastic container that you have in the house. Just make sure its clean when the urine goes in, and also if you get the urine the night before the vet, put it in the refrigerator! Hope i helped!

 

[wobblygarlilly]

Thanks jadababy. She didn't have any worm treatment done when I got her so started her on a treatment straight away. Em, any suggestions as to how to go about collecting a urine sample? lol

 

[jadababy]

EASY! when she starts to squat, just put the container right under her and have it go into the container. don't go too fast and she might get scared not knowing what your doing, but don't go too slow, as you might miss it! haha