[spartan]

The link to the other white house petition is on the news feed of this petition. Please sign and share both.

https://www.change.org/petitions/us...pters-and-breeders-licensing-for-breeders-fel

 

[revolutionrocknroll]

I highly doubt that just ending euthanasia in shelters is a realistic option at this point. It's much more humane than keeping unwanted animals in cages for years on end because there's no one to adopt them. And for what it's worth, puppy mills are the problem and they ARE licensed, so calling for breeder licensing is very vague.

I don't think this is a good solution to the overpopulation problem. Public education and strict laws targeted at commercial breeders (puppy mills) and pet stores that sell those puppies are a better way to go.

 

[spartan]

I agree on the puppy mills any suggestions on adding or modifying the petition would be great. I would also say though alot of these dogs are just puppies and aren't kept around for years in cages. Most the time it's very short. They never even get a chance at life. I see hundreds every day being killed or needing rescued on my news feed and it's heartbreaking. Some thing needs to be done. This is not acceptable policies we have in place.

 

[spartan]

And so far over 2000 people have agreed.

 

[spartan]

Or better yet, do we have any lawyers or involved animal right activists that are familiar with changing laws? How about we start a new thread for a new petition with everyone's input that address the problem across the board and more in depth. If this site has some 24000 registered users and every one of them should be for saving animals that's a good jump in signatures. Then if everyone shares it even more. Maybe we could get somewhere and use all dog forums to actually bring about change. I see missed opportunity on animal forums with the amount of social connections it provides. You never know if their is a senator or lawmaker that's a dog advocate on this very site. Maybe I'm just too optimistic.

 

[revolutionrocknroll]

I agree on the puppy mills any suggestions on adding or modifying the petition would be great. I would also say though alot of these dogs are just puppies and aren't kept around for years in cages. Most the time it's very short. They never even get a chance at life. I see hundreds every day being killed or needing rescued on my news feed and it's heartbreaking. Some thing needs to be done. This is not acceptable policies we have in place.

Yes, but what would we do with those hundreds? For all the animals that get euthanized in shelters every day, there are just more that come in to replace them. Many areas don't have the resources or the number of people to save those animals. They literally can't save those animals. Even no-kill shelters have to turn down animals from coming in when they don't have the space. Where would those animals go if every shelter was no kill?

As for legislation to help with the pet overpopulation problem- I think it should definitely be illegal for pet stores to sell puppies and kittens. Except of course animals from 501(c) organizations (shelters and rescues). Maybe that should be the focus.

 

[spartan]

And I don't believe killing them is a more humane approach. I don't think choosing the lesser of two evils is humane. By definition
hu·mane***(hy-mn)

adj.

*Characterized by kindness, mercy, or compassion:*a humane judge.

*Marked by an emphasis on humanistic values and concerns:*a humane education.

Neither killing them because of lack of space or money or keeping them in a cage their whole life is humane. Both of which need to be stopped. This is a human created problem and we as humans owe it to them to fix it. Their the ones paying the price for our neglect.

 

[spartan]

Yes, but what would we do with those hundreds? For all the animals that get euthanized in shelters every day, there are just more that come in to replace them. Many areas don't have the resources or the number of people to save those animals. They literally can't save those animals. Even no-kill shelters have to turn down animals from coming in when they don't have the space. Where would those animals go if every shelter was no kill?

As for legislation to help with the pet overpopulation problem- I think it should definitely be illegal for pet stores to sell puppies and kittens. Except of course animals from 501(c) organizations (shelters and rescues). Maybe that should be the focus.

That is what needs to be solved but you can't tell me that out of millions of pet owners that care we can't get a solution that works. We have to start somewhere and puppy mills is just one of many things that needs to stop.

 

[revolutionrocknroll]

This isn't a solution though. This is just trying to ban the current solution.

 

[spartan]

Well like I said, I can modify or change the petition to address the whole problem. So list the things you think will make the biggest impact.

 

[spartan]

The current solution is not a solution. It's sweeping the problem under the rug which has led to complacency. Forcing shelters to no longer kill healthy animals will in turn force or bring about the combined effort to find a better solution if one can not be provided. Sometimes things will never get done unless you put them in a position to get things done, not that's how I want it to be. I just don't see the difference in Johnny down the road killing the neighbor's dog while everyone screams animal cruelty and the shelter a block over killing a dog because they didn't give the animal a Chace to get adopted or using all other means of finding it a home. Their are homes out their, they just don't know about the animal or not being reached effective enough. I don't have all the solutions but the current one is not.

 

[kmes]

This is your petition, correct?
You have to have a plan of action, a solution before you can make such drastic changes.
You can't just make the change, and hope someone will come up with a solution after the fact!
Not practical and not going to work out well!

I do like a few of the ideas you have within such as an animal abuse database and making animal abuse legally more serious crimes thus with greater consequences.

However, there are already laws regarding breeder licensing. So I kinda see that as a bit of a waste of time (and money should it actually be discussed/considered by the house and senate). Really though, I fail to see how licensing is going to stop the euthanasia of dogs and cats anyway? It hasn't made much if any difference to date...

And sadly I also do not see banning the euthanasia of all healthy animals in shelters as feasible at this point in time...
I do believe that we have more of an owner retention problem than over population but simply banning euthansia will do nothing to resolve the problem. Education and shelters making improvements (systems to help make better matches, programs/staff dedicated to helping with training issues, better advertisement, etc.) can make a huge difference! And really that's where the solution to this problem is going to lie.
Furthermore I have an issue with the actual idea of banning the euthanasia of ALL HEALTHY animals. Sounds nice in theory! Would be fantastic if it would actually be possible. However, one really needs to also take into account dogs with behavior problems that make them unadoptable. What would we do with them?
Perhaps it would be better to focus on the way animals are euthanized! Fighting against certain methods of euthanasia would IMO be a more practical fight at this point.

 

[Savage Destiny]

The current solution is not a solution. It's sweeping the problem under the rug which has led to complacency. Forcing shelters to no longer kill healthy animals will in turn force or bring about the combined effort to find a better solution if one can not be provided. Sometimes things will never get done unless you put them in a position to get things done, not that's how I want it to be. I just don't see the difference in Johnny down the road killing the neighbor's dog while everyone screams animal cruelty and the shelter a block over killing a dog because they didn't give the animal a Chace to get adopted or using all other means of finding it a home. Their are homes out their, they just don't know about the animal or not being reached effective enough. I don't have all the solutions but the current one is not.

And what's going to happen to the DOGS while you're "forcing" a solution? Things don't happen overnight. So the dogs that would have been euthed just sit in the shelter, rotting away, mental health deteriorating. Shelters get full so they can't accept more dogs. So any strays, unwanted dogs, neglect cases, ANY new dogs can't be taken by the shelter. What happens to them? Someone can't dump their puppies at the shelter, so they drown them. Someone can't dump off the dog they "can't take" while moving, so they just leave him behind locked in the yard or turn him loose in the woods.

Above all, I would much rather see a dog euthanized than sit in a shelter for months or years. That is no life for a dog and is mentally damaging to them.

 

[spartan]

You guys raise some valid points but addressing me as the problem doesn't help the cause. I'm trying to initiate a change. So listing where the problems lie is good, not attacking my way of thinking. That being said after reading your opinions and rethinking this. I will start here by telling you why I'm here and what has prompted me to do this.

A few weeks ago another dog came across my Facebook feed like the hundreds do every day as I am friends with alot of dog pages. This dog was a beautiful pitbull in a high kill shelter in San bernardino California set to be euthanized. At the time I was on a layoff and was financially strapped but tried all I could to get this dog out. It was killing me to know this dog was going to be killed when he could of had a loving home right here with me. The only thing was money and distance standing in my way which made it even more aggravating knowing those two things shouldn't determine whether he dies or not. Luckily another member on the Facebook page was able to pull him but had to go to great lengths to find someone their to pick him up and foster him since he was in ohio. Then to find a way to get him transported. Shortly after this we had that cold weather come in and we saved 5 puppies from a ladies porch who left them out in the cold in a cardboard box. One of which is now staying with our two dogs that we saved and two cats from a shelter. I'd also note that not all these shelters will let the public pull a pet and require a rescue to do so. I even hear of some that are not even open to the public and get virtually no advertisement of the animals. This sickens me and this is why I am here now.

So, to rethink all this and do it with others input at the same time this is what I'm thinking. First I think their needs to be a website linked with every single shelter in america. One central site that can show photos and info on every single dog or cat available for adoption in the United States. Under this one central site every rescue and transportation company or charity should be affiliated. This would #1 reach more people if everyone wanting a pet could go to one place a scroll every pet in america. #2 stream line the process of someone wanting a dog out of state. they could then pick out their adoptable pet and have it transported to them all threw one site anywhere in america. Subject to the new animal abuse background check ofcourse. Now that we have established a more direct way for pets to get advertisement this should help with the outflow of pets needing homes.
Next we work on the inflow of pets. Start with either banning puppy mills or at least heavily regulating them and better monitoring. The idea behind the breeders licensing iis so if Joe down the street wants to breed his dog with yours he needs to go get a breeders license and pass the abuse background check. This can #1 create revenue #2 monitor and help track breeding to provide valuable data for future analysis #3 provide a incentive for buyers to report a backyard breeder who cannot show his breeders license by offering a reward for anyone who reports illegal breeding.
The idea behind the euthanasia law is aimed at healthy adoptable puppies and pets. Not pets with mental issues, medical or aggression issues. The keys here are stopping the over breeding, education, spayed and neutering and getting the pets that are health and adoptable marketed better. Stop killing them. I think this is a broken system that stands alot of improvement and it goes to show the hurdles some have to jump just to try and save a dog. Especially if your out of state.

Now help me fill in the holes with ideas to better this.

 

[spartan]

Yes this was a petition i started a week ago which has now reached over 2000 signatures. I can't change the title of it but i can change the body and send out a message to every person who signed it. If we can come up with something better and more in depth i just as soon start a new one. If people are willing to help.

 

[revolutionrocknroll]

So, to rethink all this and do it with others input at the same time this is what I'm thinking. First I think their needs to be a website linked with every single shelter in america. One central site that can show photos and info on every single dog or cat available for adoption in the United States. Under this one central site every rescue and transportation company or charity should be affiliated. This would #1 reach more people if everyone wanting a pet could go to one place a scroll every pet in america. #2 stream line the process of someone wanting a dog out of state. they could then pick out their adoptable pet and have it transported to them all threw one site anywhere in america. Subject to the new animal abuse background check ofcourse. Now that we have established a more direct way for pets to get advertisement this should help with the outflow of pets needing homes.
Next we work on the inflow of pets. Start with either banning puppy mills or at least heavily regulating them and better monitoring. The idea behind the breeders licensing iis so if Joe down the street wants to breed his dog with yours he needs to go get a breeders license and pass the abuse background check. This can #1 create revenue #2 monitor and help track breeding to provide valuable data for future analysis #3 provide a incentive for buyers to report a backyard breeder who cannot show his breeders license by offering a reward for anyone who reports illegal breeding.
The idea behind the euthanasia law is aimed at healthy adoptable puppies and pets. Not pets with mental issues, medical or aggression issues. The keys here are stopping the over breeding, education, spayed and neutering and getting the pets that are health and adoptable marketed better. Stop killing them. I think this is a broken system that stands alot of improvement and it goes to show the hurdles some have to jump just to try and save a dog. Especially if your out of state.

Now help me fill in the holes with ideas to better this.

Yes, I think this is a better plan, but still very ambitious. I still don't think we can do the euthanasia law until we really work on reducing the number of dogs in the system (dogs that are relinquished or returned to shelters). I don't think most shelter workers and vets would euthanize if they didn't have to, because these people get into their jobs because they love animals. They're just overwhelmed by the numbers of animals that need shelter and they need to make the space to give all of them a chance (especially if the alternative is abuse or starvation on the streets).

I do think addressing the root of the problem (puppy mills and backyard breeders) and making the adoption system easier for people to understand and use (as you said, "stream line the process") is definitely the best place to start.

 

[spartan]

I kinda started the petition out of passion for the dog I tried to save. Obviously not completely thought out as you all pointed out. I'm glad you agree I'm somewhat on track here though. I just can't believe I don't see a big sticky thread at the top of every dog forum to help fix this problem. Not using the benefits of a social network with access to so many people with the same interests is a missed opportunity to help bring change. It seems like all the rescues, charities, shelters and animal companies out there care and want to change things. But it's like pockets here and there, groups here and there, state by state, county by county and their's nothing linking them all together, nothing unifying them under one main cause. It's sad to see its so hard to get change when everyone knows what's wrong. I can imagine the one central Web site example "the animal humane act.gov" or something like that. That brings all shelters, rescues, charities, animal transports and even vets together under one roof aimed at saving pets, education and finding them good homes nation wide.

 

[crock]

Who Killed These Dogs? | Dog Star Daily

I think that article makes a great point. Instead of pointing fingers at who is producing the dogs (and the shelters cleaning up after them), how about focus on the market buying them? ==>education! aka public awareness! There are [amazingly] people who still have no idea what puppy mills are. There are people who think that breeding Duke to Lizzy down the road is a fab idea for Duke Jr. and a lil' extra cash. If people knew the issues surround dog breeding, then they would probably not be buying the pups from BYBers and Millers; and if those markets didn't exist, well, you wouldn't need laws to shut them down. No profit, no more product. People BUYING the dogs should be doing their research. RETENTION is another biggie--people buying should be sure they can keep them.

Personally, I don't sign petitions like these and I don't support many (if any) changes to laws in this field. If you take a look at many animal welfare statutes, there already exists reasonable laws for abuse, breeding, sales, etc. The issue is in funding and regulation/enforcement, not the laws themselves. I just don't see the efficiency of trying to get changes here and there via online petitions. Lawmaking is a complicated process--much more complicated than writing a petition on a website.

If you really want to get stuff done, my rec is public education. That's a battle we can all fight, without getting caught up/stuck in administrative webs. Or, go work with an animal welfare organization. If you're really interested, go talk to an animal welfare or animal rights lawyer and ask them their thoughts on what to do/how to get it done.

 

[spartan]

How hard would it be for the aspca to do this? Sure their may be costs up front but the idea is to cut costs and save lives in the long run.

 

[crock]

Regarding our incredible lack of stickies on this topic, feel free to read the various ones we have on buyer education and breeders. Or, check out the various threads when we try to educate people about their upcoming purchase--many in which you'll see us also recommend adoption. Like I said, teaching people the issues behind where they buy their dogs is the foundation of addressing this issue.