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Discussion Starter #1
So My family and I got a new puppy that now is about 14 weeks old and I am wondering that if with consistency and work, if he will realize, and accpet that he is not the dominant leader. When we first got him, the second day he growled at our fox terrier when he approached the dog bowl while he( the puppy) was eating. I quickly repremanded him for it and it has not happened since. Well today, I got him and our other two dogs raw bones with meat still attached, and when I gave it to him, he was fine, but about 5 mins later I went to move him and the bone and he got aggresive with me when I tried to take it. THen, when I tried to make him submiss by putting him on his back, he got more aggresive and tried to fight it. I kept up until he calmed down. I then kept approaching him and the bone. There was absolutely no problem when I would put my hand in front of his face to take it, it was when I would touch him on the back of the neck, like i might scruff his neck, would he start to growl. I worked through it with him, then had my partner try. When he went to touch the back of his neck, he got then agressive with him, then fought hard back for at least two minutes while my partner kept him rolled on his back. We would go back and forth between me and him doing it, throughout the day and he stopped doing it with me but would still slightly growl at my partner. Again, never when your hand was in front of his face going to grab the bone, it was when your had went to the back of his neck while he was chewing. I am wondering if we can worl through this, or if this may always be a struggle. I want to see if anyone has had a similar situation and what the outcome was. Did they eventually give in to you as the leader? Did becoming the leader really take ALOT of effort menatlly and Physically? Anyone with some insight, welcome. Thanks so much
 

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You should never try to dominate a dog physically, it's a sure way to get bitten. The leader is the one that controls the resources, control them, and your dog will respect you as the leader. He wants to eat? great, make him sit and wait for his bowl, he wants to go out? make him come to you and sit to let you put the lead on...Becoming the leader isn't hard, all you need is consistency, and making your dog work for you, and not the other way around. But yeah, never try to take the leadership by force, that reduces the respect your dog has for you, not to mention that it might get you bitten.
 

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Agreed. "Nothing in Life is Free" is a method of training and works wonders. It requires your dog to "work" for anything it gets. Just as UnDeadKnight1 said, make him "perform" before you feed him, etc. With consistency, he'll begin to realize that you are the leader and that will carry into other areas of your interactions.
 

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Forget everything you know about dominance for now. You have a new puppy and she doesn't speak english. Trying to dominate in the way you are just scares her, which makes her react worse and worse. Your dealing with an INFANT a baby dog. She doesn't know anything yet.

If you take things from her...switch them...give her som'thing else apropriate to chew on. Right now, all shes learning is that you take things away that she likes so she must protect it.


Please find a positive trainer in your area for help also.



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I practice NILF training with my pit and the new husky we just got. It goes a long way as far as letting them know what you expect. I would highly advice you to enroll your pup in training classes, its a great way to learn how to communicate with your dog, as well as being able to have a professional give you advice on how to handle her current bad behaviors.

Although she may be a puppy now, if not handled now it will only escalate and get worse as she gets older. Best of luck to you and please let us know how this turns out.
 

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It seems to me your dog is a bit food agressive, that can be worked through and he will eventually see you as leader as long as you are consistant and provide the right energy for your puppy. Also never ever roll your dog onto their back this should only be done as a last resort or with a very dominant dog. This is dangerous if not done properly. I myself only ever do it with one of my dogs, she is the dominant one in my "pack" and she can be very aggressive towards other dogs, that is the only reason I ever roll her, plus I know what to look for after I ask her to submit. As for the aggression, simply correct him by touching the neck and making a correction sound when ever you see signs of aggresion, that is what I do with my dogs, I do this until they either sit or laydown with the ears back and sometimes when they refuse to look at the object. Hope that helps.
 

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It seems to me your dog is a bit food agressive, that can be worked through and he will eventually see you as leader as long as you are consistant and provide the right energy for your puppy. Also never ever roll your dog onto their back this should only be done as a last resort or with a very dominant dog. This is dangerous if not done properly. I myself only ever do it with one of my dogs, she is the dominant one in my "pack" and she can be very aggressive towards other dogs, that is the only reason I ever roll her, plus I know what to look for after I ask her to submit. As for the aggression, simply correct him by touching the neck and making a correction sound when ever you see signs of aggresion, that is what I do with my dogs, I do this until they either sit or laydown with the ears back and sometimes when they refuse to look at the object. Hope that helps.
aggression is a sign of anxiety or insecurity in dogs. NOT dominance. A dominate animal does not need to fight to get wants it wants... EVER. Fighting is not a normal behavior and an aggressive animal would soon find its genes eliminated from the pool.

Rolling your dog is not a solution...or else you would not have to keep repeating it. Please get a hold of a behaviorist.



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aggression is a sign of anxiety or insecurity in dogs. NOT dominance. A dominate animal does not need to fight to get wants it wants... EVER. Fighting is not a normal behavior and an aggressive animal would soon find its genes eliminated from the pool.

Rolling your dog is not a solution...or else you would not have to keep repeating it. Please get a hold of a behaviorist.
Sphynx, dominant animals constantly beat up their subordinates, so I'm not sure what you mean.. Fighting definitely IS a normal behaviour - otherwise animals wouldn't know how to fight. Dogs, chooks, horses.. no difference.

Defensive aggression is a sign of anxiety and insecurity, and is not the only type of aggression there is.. Also, as far as the "or else you would not have to keep repeating it" goes.. training a dog is all about repetition. Nothing works the first time straight away..
 

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there is one thing no one has said yet. show the dog that, anything that you give him is not his. everything you own or have bought for him is yours. he has to know that you the toy comes from you. he is still a puppy you have to stop this before he can hurt you badly(especially with some pit in him). everyday time how long you let him have the toy. start small. after the time limit is up take it from him. how you take it is up to you, you could try lureing him away with something else he like like food or a treat, or you could use an object (such as a broom) as a substitute for your body so he cant bite you and push him or her away from it. repeat this everyday. as for the food issue, make sure he has to do something to get the food like sit. and when you're pouring the food make sure he isn't in your space. make him sit away (but still in sight of you and the food). you are the leader of your house. and the most important thing you can do is be calm and assertive.
 

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Sphynx, dominant animals constantly beat up their subordinates, so I'm not sure what you mean.. Fighting definitely IS a normal behaviour - otherwise animals wouldn't know how to fight. Dogs, chooks, horses.. no difference.

Defensive aggression is a sign of anxiety and insecurity, and is not the only type of aggression there is.. Also, as far as the "or else you would not have to keep repeating it" goes.. training a dog is all about repetition. Nothing works the first time straight away..

Nope. Not true AT ALL. The dominate animal would not need too. If he fought for everything all the time...he would be exhasted and then a new dog would take over. Thats simply stupid.

What you are refering to is ritualized fighting. The animals DO NOT damage each other. Animals that are truely aggressive, damage other animals and themselves severely in the process, they would not stay in a natural gene pool long. Only an artificial one. Think about it. How would a hair trigger with TRUE aggression survive...It wouldnt

Many many many many experts agree that ALL aggression is fear based on some level.

Are you familair with behavior suppression vs. behavior modification? Im not talking about the learning stage in training. Im talking long term. Corrected behaviors with no redirection will result in suppressed behaviors NOT MODIFIED ones So you will alway have to repeat it. A modified behavior will not have to be corrected as long as the new behavior is reinforced.

I suggest you read and understand learning theory. Dominance theory is severely flawed and has been debunked NUMEROUS times.

nonlineardogs.com



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i agree with criosphynx. a good dominant male will show his agression without fighting. dogs evolved to be able to show dominance with minimal fighting. they're main job is to survive and to survive they have to be able to capture prey. if they were fighting all the time they would be too exhasted and hurt to be able to catch prey.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
Hi there I want to thank everyone for their responses and ideas. So, its not a problem at all anymore. As I said, for the rest of the day I worked on approaching him and the bone, and by a few hours there was NO issue at all. I would approach the bone, putting my hand over it, putting my hand in his mouth, taking the bone for a second, asking him to sit then giving it back, moving it over a couple inches and he was perfect. I also worked on him getting his neck rubbed and touched while he ate it. This I agree with a trust thing, where he was not trusting of us yes touching his neck (I think most likely because his former owner scruffed his neck frequently when he got into trouble). Another thing I have been doing is when we play and cuddle together, I do roll him on his back. Not aggressively or in a dominant way, but in a fun loving playful way and he likes it. He is playing with our fox terrier often on his back. They switch off with one another being on top. With the fighting response, I dont think that sphynx you are totally correct. Animals fight frequently in the wild. In almost every pack, herd or group of animals, the Alpha or leader is regualrly being challenged by other males to take over. It just what happens. With dogs, horses, apes, gorillas, walruses, lions. In most herd and pack animals, one male has a group of females, and when the young males grow to a ceratin age they are kicked out. These males that get kicked out form a group, but when they are strong enough, challenge leaders of packs and herds to take them over. I know that when a young male lion challenges a alpha male of a pack, if the young male wins, he will go through the pack and kill ALL of the baby cubs, and then mate with the female lions... So I definitely think that some aspects of fighting are instinctual. It is situational. Not every situation does it make sense for an animal to fight back, but definitely some. But back to mogli, he is a ownderful guy that I believe was testing to see where he stood in our pack. I also forgot to mention that the bone he did it with was raw with chunks of raw meat hanging off, so I think that his insinctual side came out then too, along with his distrust with his neck at the time, and him testing his boundaries. Thanks again everyone!
 

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And to steve, it doesnt mean they are fighting ALL the time. I dont think that fighting all the time is normal, but many situations come up in the wild where they have to defend their position as leader. This is usually what gets the trust of the members of the group, when one wins a fight with another. Plus, the leader doesnt get as hurt as the other. And they are not getting challenged all the time, only when another feels they are stronger and can beat the leader. Its not like that is happening everyday.
 
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