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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
Thanks everyone who replied! I didn't get a notification so I didn't know there were any replies! So sorry it took so long.

Again, thanks so much everyone. : )
 

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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
So, I've caught up on all the reading (again, I apologize for not having gotten here sooner!) and certainly agree with a lot being said. Our dogs are just wonderful dogs, I'm not asking for anything more of them, but I understand how others are looking for specific traits because of how their family, home, and lifestyle works. I LOVE mutts as much as "doodle" dogs, we just can't get them because most of them are highly allergenic hound or lab mixes. We have, however, pet-sat for pugs, a beagle mix, a saint bernard and other dogs and found them to be nice.

Now, heterosis (hybrid vigor) works far better with livestock then domestic dogs because dogs tend to be selected for show appearance or cute appearance and not for health. So many breeds were selected to look so good in a show (not to insult those who show dogs at all) that this is when I believe true health problems began to appear.
I do know that crossing is not always healthier, as seen with lethal genes and the like. It does stop inbreeding depression, not genetic health issues though that can still be passed on either recessive or dominant.
Since livestock rarely have the health problems seen in pet animals (since they are bred for health and production above appearance and behavior) hybrid vigor is very helpful and a very good thing for such species.


Our doodles are not healthier than other dogs as a whole, though they don't have all the genetic disorders you may see in other breeds, they still have hip issues (arthritis mainly), poor conformation, allergies, and a couple of our dogs get hot-spots. Some of our dogs were originally from puppy-mills (we had gotten them from a pet store before we realized all the dogs there were puppy-mill dogs) and some of them came from very nice breeders.

I hope people begin to select for health above appearance soon in dogs (not that appearance isn't awesome, I love all the varieties) and other animals, because when you select for an appearance that is cute you often select dwarfisim (some of our dogs have mild dwarfisim that causes them pain, breathing issues, and one of our dogs died far earlier because his body just seemed to slowly die on him). It is terrible to see what we select for just because it is cute without thinking if we had the same thing we would search for a cure as hard as possible. Some day, I believe, we will realize that and breed for healthy dogs, even if they aren't carrying the historical appearance they were famous for.
Sorry, I think I ranted a little there. : )

As for doodles being expensive, YES they ARE! We don't buy the really expensive ones, we've usually gotten older puppies that were on sale because they were past the age most people wanted them (usually under 10 weeks). I think its pretty crazy how much dogs cost if you aren't paying a lot for health tested, pure-bred, registered, quality dogs. It is a scam in many cases (you can see it with cats as well).

Our pure-bred toy poodle is just as wonderful as our poodle mixes, though he was likely a puppy-mill dog (he was one we got from a pet store when he was slightly older). He suffers from hot-spots, but he is very sweet and I like his larger size because smaller poodles would likely get broken by our 90 pound dog. : )

My dog is Cinnamon, and he is my loyal best friend other. I love him so much! He is so smart, so friendly, loves to go on walks, sleeps up in my room, and he is the cutest thing ever! I love his wavy coat that is short in summer and long and fluffy in winter. He sheds some but I like that he isn't greasy, I don't like petting a greasy dog.

Our dogs misbehave some, but its really how they are trained that makes the difference in my opinion. We pet-sit some crazy (and I mean CRAZY) dogs that were not raised properly, but our own dogs know the rules (our puppy is still learning) and respect what we ask of them.... Most of the time. : )

I did want to add, I'm not sure how true this is, but in Ohio there seems to be a lot of puppy mills, all the puppies for sale seem to be from them, but we found some nice doodle breeders here with dogs about $800 with the dogs given wonderful care. We are hoping to get a Portuguese Water Dog soon, since they are similar to doodles but are easier to find breeders for.

I'm certainly not for breed bashing, but I do understand why some people disagree with the breeding of certain dogs for health purposes. A dog with a painful, unhealthy mutation will not get hurt feelings if it is fixed and not allowed to breed, and they should certainly get a wonderful home, so its not that there is anything wrong with the breed, breeders just need to select for a dog that can live happy, long life. Dogs don't deserve to be called bad just because of their health, owners don't deserve to be called bad because they get these animals, but breeders should be the responsible ones, the ones who select for the friendliest, healthiest, happiest dogs that can live a long life without medications or high aggression or anxiety (which can also be genetic as well as behavioral).
I also would like to add that banning the breeding of a dog seems a little silly because that's just one more law that doesn't give people a choice. Instead you should ban the improper breeding of dogs. I mean, we don't need more rules, right? : )

So yes, I have seen tons of health problems and behavior problems in mixes, and in pure-breds. Dogs are dogs, and are so wonderful. Thank you guys for sharing your opinions and letting me know I'm not alone in this struggle with dog breeds and mixes.

Thanks everyone!!
 

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I personally think that doodles can be very endearing and good family dogs, but like every mixed breed from breeders that don't do genetic testing it is a bit of a gamble.
a kinder surprise egg that is more expensive than getting a pup from a registered, reputable breeder of one of the originating breeds.

the most doodles I know are standard poodle Retriever (lab or golden) mixes.
Some doodles I met seemed a bit less easy to train than a Standard Poodle, perhaps that's Retriever in them.
Sadly in their temperament the ones I met were less aloof, extremly easy to lose focus on their task and more goofy than the standard poodles I met.
I personaly found them a bit annoying, because I'm not so good with very lively dogs.
Some of the families were disappointed because the promises made by the breeders were lies. these dogs shed and they don't train themself.
they're not bad dogs for a family, but not all of them are beginner dogs that fit in every family.
the only exception is the Rotti-doodle in my neighbourhood. he's awesome. I'd take him without a second thought.
he looks weird, sheds like crazy and the fur is difficult to care for, but the personality is awesome. handler focused, intelligent, willing to work, but not as fidgety as the poodle...he's dog selective though, so probably also not the greatest beginner dog.
...I once met a Pittbull-poodle mix in town, she was cute too...looked like a sheep, but i don't know much about the character.
seemed to be also veeery fidgety and difficult to keep her focused too...but she was still adolescent, perhaps that got better with age. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
Yeah, not knowing what you will get from the cross can be difficult. Livestock hybrids are similar in that fashion.

And yes, different people love different dogs, so certainly doodles aren't for everyone. We live in a family of eight with six kids, seven dogs, and on 10 acres. The kids are home schooled so are home all the time, which means that we get constant interaction with our dogs. They have two acres with a pond fenced in for them and the temperature swings where we live are intense, so the variable coat is very helpful (below -0 F during the winter and above 100 F during the summer).

However, their personalities can be like night and day depending on the cross. Their coats also very a lot. All our retriever mixes have wavy to curly coats that only shed a little or not at all, but some doodles mixed with dogs that naturally have short coats may be more allergenic or prone to shedding (such as bulldogs, pugs, hounds, ect). These breeds seem to be greasier as well.
Some of our dogs don't really enjoy training or want it, my dog adores it like its the best thing in the world and can learn a trick in one day (oops, am I bragging? Lol :)).
Our Maltese x Poodle is aloof, prefers not to be held or petted, disobeys a lot, and has TONS of attitude while our Australian Shepherd x Poodle puppy is about as smart as smart can be and always wants to be with you. He does, however, try to herd the other dogs during walks, which drives them crazy.

Our pure poodle isn't much one for training, he's a bit of a chicken actually, but he loves to cuddle all the time and loves to go on trips to friends houses, where he just sits next to them and helps keep them calm. He's really good at that, but he is also very selfish in that when you don't pet him, he taps you with his paw over and over and over! Even when you are trying to write!

Our mini Goldendoodle Cedar is sweet, funny, but suffers from anxiety. He developed it after his best friend and adopted father, Arby, passed. We thought he was having a seizure because he was shaking so hard (and another of our dogs has had them as well) so we held him and told him it was okay, which enforced the behavior. It took months for him to stop having panic attacks whenever something exciting happened.

Our oldest dog, our 90 lb goldendoodle, is very sweet but has arthritis in both his back hips, just like his brother. Because of this, he barks to ask us to help him stand up a lot (and barks for fresh water, and food and walks) but he is a very gentle, sweet, playful old dog that is completely a puppy at heart.

Our ****-a-poo has a curly, beautiful coat but tends to get slobber on her muzzle (from her big lips) so needs it shaved to keep her from growing bacteria in it and smelling terrible. She also doesn't like being held or snuggled (seems to be a girl thing with our dogs) and is the one who has fought with our other girl, the malt-a-poo. These two girls are the two that don't behave, use the bathroom in the house, sneak on the table, don't come when called, are bad on walks, and also they escape from our fence. This is our experience with girl dogs, but they are very aggressive around here. Esther (our ****-a-poos name) was fixed but unfortunately still goes into heat regularly, which affects her behavior. She is very gentle towards us, but tends to confuse the poor boy dogs.
Anyways, she is very sweet, even if she barks a lot at nothing (tends to more when we haven't walked the energy out of her).

We've also owned and pet-sat another ****-a-poo, a spaniel mix (perhaps part shih tzu?), a long-haired dachshund and pug mix, a labradoodle and the labradoodles daughter (both of her parents were labradoodles) among other dogs.
The ****-a-poo was an unfixed, teenage male puppy-mill dog that we took in and he had MAJOR behavior issues. Poor breeding, socilization, and being taken from his mother too early led to him not knowing how to behave around dogs or people, peeing in the house all the time, and acting like a total weirdo (such as jumping out of high windows and running into things) but I can't blame the poor guy, it was mostly how he was raised.

Same for the pug mix and spaniel mix, one was a puppy-mill dog bought at a pet-store by a friend and so he had no idea how to behave what so ever (still doesn't since he wasn't raised properly or exercised enough) and he trained the young pug mix (who was from the shelter) to behave like him.

The two labradoodles equally were not raised in a proper environment, the mother was raised in a barn I think, so she is terrified of being indoors and of loud sounds, strangers, ect, but is very out-going, hyper and even aggressive outdoors (she tired to kill one of our other female dogs before she found a new home). We had given her a home from our cousins, who had bred her once and found breeding dogs was not for them. Her daughter lives with her but is equally nervous, aggressive, and prone to barking, jumping on you, and all that. It drives me crazy, but again, this was how they were raised and exercised as well as behavior.
Don't get me wrong, their owners love them and walk them and train them well, they live in a home with an autistic child and do wonderfully with him, they just don't do so well when they come to our house where they suddenly feel the need to show our dogs who is boss.

We also pet-sit a tiny (tiny, tiny compared to our dogs at least!) yorkie mix, not sure what the other breed is, but it makes him hypoallergenic to some extent (at least with our family, who seem most affected by dogs with short, greasy coats). However, once more, not raised in a proper fashion originally. He is a rescue who lost half his teeth, has severe allergies towards foods and perhaps other things as well (he chews himself a lot) but he is still a sweet, lively little guy.

We've worked with pure pugs, a pure saint bernard, pure dachsund, pure shih-tzu and pure Irish setter. The pugs both had health problems (one didn't develop all the bones in its back legs and is on multiple medications) and the Irish setter was poorly bred, aggressive, and obsessive over flies and other insects she sees. She has fought with our dogs and likes to chase motorcycles. The pugs were very, very sweet but caused some allergies and could easily suffer breathing issues, over-heating, leg issues, and needed their face wrinkles cleaned.
The Saint Bernard is a wonderful dog at her own home, but she does seem to show some aggression, and because of gigantism likely won't live more than 6-8 eight years.
The Dachsund died early from bloating and had back issues from dwarfisim but other then that was actually a well behaved girl and very sweet.
The Shih-tzu is a tiny dog with dwarfisim, back issues, and is very delicate as well.

We have worked with other dogs as well. Many are mixes because we live in the country, so a lot of people adopt from friends, find lost dogs, or get shelter dogs. We've seen an old, arthritic lab that lived for a surprisingly long time and is very well behaved. We've seen a lab mix who is now blind and mostly deaf, but other then that was very well behaved (now he is easily frightened, as would be understandable). We've also met other labs, mixes, and pure dogs.

All in all, I guess the point is, we have never had a dog as healthy as you would see if people selected for healthy dogs and their behavior problems do come in part from their breed, but they only misbehave because the owners did not do research into proper dog keeping and often bought them at too young an age, which causes major behavioral issues in almost all mammals (our crazy, aggressive cat was an orphan that we raised. You don't dare touch him unless he asks for it). Okay, I'll admit it, it drives me CRAZY that people could breed a dog that dies in 5 years after living a painful life where the owner suffers and has to pay for expensive medication. That is pretty cruel to the poor owners to sell them a dog that can't live a natural, long, healthy life. There, I ranted some. I feel better. :D


So not all doodles are perfect, but then again, no dogs are. I just love dogs, and I love individual breeds, but because of the home we live in as long as the dogs don't shed a lot and aren't too aggressive, we can keep them.


Wow, that was a long post. I love talking about dogs though! Finally a place where people like to hear it too! Thanks guys for listening. :)
 

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Well I for one have absolutely zero problems with doodles as a whole. Specific breeders yes but that goes for any breed or mix.

I used to be very against breeding mixed breeds and designer dogs but realized my stance was very silly and arbitrary and probably mostly due to being involved in dog showing with my papillons.

I would not buy a doodle (not my kind of dog) but I would buy other mixed breeds from breeders I felt were breeding nice dogs. To each his own. Doodles are very popular and here to stay. Cockapoos, goldendoodles and labradoodles are all pretty easy to find decent breeders in too. Cockapoos have been around since the 50s.
 

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This is Bonnie. Her mother is a purebred Golden Retriever, her father was a Poodle with 1/4 Aussie in him. The Poodle was merle and white. It was an "oops" litter, the Poodle climbed a six foot fence to get to the Golden who had 12 pups. The four merles she had were all females. Still wondering how big she is going to be (she is 20 lbs. at 15 weeks, and what her coat is going to be like. I actually like the fact that I do not know what she is going to be like when she is older. She is very smart, easily housebroken and loves everyone.

 

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Discussion Starter · #27 ·
This is Bonnie. Her mother is a purebred Golden Retriever, her father was a Poodle with 1/4 Aussie in him. The Poodle was merle and white. It was an "oops" litter, the Poodle climbed a six foot fence to get to the Golden who had 12 pups. The four merles she had were all females. Still wondering how big she is going to be (she is 20 lbs. at 15 weeks, and what her coat is going to be like. I actually like the fact that I do not know what she is going to be like when she is older. She is very smart, easily housebroken and loves everyone.

Those are adorable puppies! Very lovely colors!


I certainly agree with to each their own. One of the reasons I love doodles so much is because they are calmer, more steady, and our goldendoodles are more retriever like then a poodle. I also love their wavy coats and faces instead of the tight, almost rough to the touch feel of their fur. The two labradoodles we pet-sit have very tight, easily tangled curls and it is difficult to give them a hair-cut that looks good. But then again, I think I'm just bragging because my baby-boy is so handsome!! :)

Our retirever mixes love to be with us and be loyal to us, though or pure poodle likes this as well, he is far more selfish about it. He's almost stuck-up actually. Our Maltese, well... she acts just like any terrier dog (not that maltese are true terriers, but they look and behave almost just like them).

Our next two dogs we are planning on getting in the future (perhaps far future) will hopefully be a Portuguese Water Dog and Lagotto Ramagnolo. They are both similar to doodle dogs (not as wavy coats) but they are similar to retrievers in what they were bred for, come in pretty colors and patterns, and have a coat similar to a poodles. I wanted to compare the difference between getting pure-breds and getting the doodles. We have mostly had light coated dogs because they don't over-heat as easily, but our new puppy is a tri-colored Aussie mix with a dark coat and the next puppy we are planning on getting (to be his friend, since our adult dogs won't play with him) will likely be black as well.
 
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