[GitaBooks]

I just thought I would bring up something that has been bothering me lately. It is in no way meant to offend anyone's opinions, but I don't think everyone has been completely informed about the truth of poodle mixes.

I read an article that stated buying poodle mixes was unethical because so many were bred by irresponsible breeders and then ended up in shelters. However, it failed to mention that the same thing happens to all other breeds of dogs as well.
We have six poodle mixes and one pure poodle, because of allergies in the family. While I know poodle mixes don't always work against allergies, it helps with my families allergies and so we are very thankful for that. The article said this was not true and they didn't help with allergies, however.

The article also claimed they did not always behave properly, but all dogs are individuals no matter what. All our dogs are unique, but all of them are wonderful. Cinnamon, my miniature goldendoodle, is the most loyal, sweetest, most intelligent doggy ever and is always there when I need him.

It is certainly true that you can't predict their size completely, Cinnamon is 50 lbs and was suppose to be 30 lbs, but our family doesn't mind, because all our doodles are so gentle, from our 15 lb maltese mix to our 90 lb golden retriever mix. They are highly intelligent, gentle with most other pets, love to learn tricks, and another great thing is that during the winter they can grow thick coats to keep warm and they can then be shaved short in the summer and still look so handsome and cute!

I guess I wrote all this just because I felt a little hurt when someone told me that doodle dogs weren't friendly, healthy or useful, when that is so not true about our dogs. There are so many ethical, wonderful doodle dog breeders out there, and mix-breed dogs are often healthier then pure dogs because of hybrid vigor (heterosis). All dogs have faults, but I can't imagine life without our pack.

Sorry if I ranted, thanks so much for understanding.

 

[Shandula]

I think the problem people have with Doodles is that people price them extremely high, and market them as "Designer Dogs". Most of the Golden Retriever x Poodle mixes/Lab x Poodle mixes sell for around $2,000 or more. Most I see for sale at 3,000 dollars. For a mixed breed dog, which is double the cost of my Aussie, and almost 4 times the cost of my Border Collie.

They also prey on people who believe they are getting a "hypoallergenic" dog, when we know that such a dog does not exist.

I'm glad that the size didn't bother you too much, but imagine some poor soul who can't have a dog over 30 or 40 pounds due to their lease, and ends up with a dog that is 50-60 pounds. Then they are in an unfortunate situation.

I believe hybrid vigor does occur, but it isn't this wonderful thing that eliminates all health problems in mixed breeds, and I do believe unscrupulous breeders use the term to believe that buying cross-breeds for hefty prices is worth it. If the parents have any sort of health issues, your puppies could very well have health issues. Which (hopefully isn't the case for you) occurs often in "designer dogs" because more often than not, it's all about turning a big profit.

My number one biggest problem with all of the Poodle mixes is simply that all of the desired traits can be found in the Poodle.

I'm very happy all your poodle mixes are healthy and happy, but I think it is naive to think all Poodle-mixes are the same. Just as it would be naive for me to assume that all Aussie breeders aren't breeding double merles, or lethal whites.

 

[SpicyBulldog]

I just thought I would bring up something that has been bothering me lately. It is in no way meant to offend anyone's opinions, but I don't think everyone has been completely informed about the truth of poodle mixes.

I read an article that stated buying poodle mixes was unethical because so many were bred by irresponsible breeders and then ended up in shelters. However, it failed to mention that the same thing happens to all other breeds of dogs as well.
We have six poodle mixes and one pure poodle, because of allergies in the family. While I know poodle mixes don't always work against allergies, it helps with my families allergies and so we are very thankful for that. The article said this was not true and they didn't help with allergies, however.

The article also claimed they did not always behave properly, but all dogs are individuals no matter what. All our dogs are unique, but all of them are wonderful. Cinnamon, my miniature goldendoodle, is the most loyal, sweetest, most intelligent doggy ever and is always there when I need him.

It is certainly true that you can't predict their size completely, Cinnamon is 50 lbs and was suppose to be 30 lbs, but our family doesn't mind, because all our doodles are so gentle, from our 15 lb maltese mix to our 90 lb golden retriever mix. They are highly intelligent, gentle with most other pets, love to learn tricks, and another great thing is that during the winter they can grow thick coats to keep warm and they can then be shaved short in the summer and still look so handsome and cute!

I guess I wrote all this just because I felt a little hurt when someone told me that doodle dogs weren't friendly, healthy or useful, when that is so not true about our dogs. There are so many ethical, wonderful doodle dog breeders out there, and mix-breed dogs are often healthier then pure dogs because of hybrid vigor (heterosis). All dogs have faults, but I can't imagine life without our pack.

Sorry if I ranted, thanks so much for understanding.

I'm sorry to hear if you're feelings were hurt by others. We all love our dogs so I understand where you are coming from.

From what I've seen there are not "so many ethical, wonderful doodle dog breeders" most are for profit and at best clueless pet owners. There are some ethical ones out there that health test, care about temperament and screen homes. If you've found one like that I think that's great.

Heterosis will only rectify the negative impact of inbreeding depression. Living slightly longer or having higher fertility rate is better fitness but it doesn't remove the possibility of disease therefore I wouldn't say they are "healthier". They will have some homozygous genes too. Labradoodles are ranked 74 for hip stats better than a lot of pure breds (than 73 breeds) and worse than 100 other breeds. Lots of mixed breed dogs suffer from this condition. The random designer doo I met at the park has both luxating patella and hypothyroidism.

Breeding dogs together of different breeds that carry the same disease carries the same 25% risk of affected pups and 50% carriers as breeding pure. It doesn't matter if the number of other homozygous genes have decreased.

Purebred dogs not always at higher risk for genetic disorders, study finds :: UC Davis News & Information

This study of over 90,000 dogs (pure and mix) put forth what dog breeders already figured out. That mixes are not healthier by default.

 

[FOS]

While I do believe any can have problems, and any can be healthy... It comes right down to how healthy are the parents? Every breed has something notorious.. And it's true when mixing, you can cancel things out through genetics. Please note, I said CAN.. That's because a lot of breed issues need to be matched by both parents to have that come again in a pup. BUT not all aliments need to be double matched.. Those that don't need a double dose (same bad gene from each parent to match up) are able to continue to be an issue, even in mixed breeds. As a matter of a fact, new issues can be made if mixed breeds are being bred as though they are full bred, an issue that I delt with.
My Amal pup was half Bishon and half Maltese. She developed a disorder that is only seen between this mix. I got her when she was 3yrs. It was about 2 years later she started to have issues. She was on a very expensive med that was ultimately going to kill her, but she would die even sooner without it. We were one of the very few lucky ones... She lived to be 13 years old on this leathal medication. I have often wonderd just how old she would have gotten if she didn't get sick, and didnt need the meds. But I know how lucky I was to have her so long on it. She was the most expensive dog I have ever had, this mix... but free to get as she was a gift to me, And yet my Ocean and Feora, both mixes have always been in good health. A cocker spaniel I once rescued (was elderly when I got him) was fairly healthy.

The problem with breed bashing, or mix breed bashing, is that in most cases, people pick on things that are NOT specific to that breed. Things like being misbehaved? That's a training issue, I have seen dogs of all breeds misbehaved. I have seen all breeds have health issues, and their mixes.. I have seen all back yard breeders of both full and mixes be sold as something they are not, because it can be hidden in a puppy face or body, you don't find out till they start growing that the mini ausie isn't so mini, the full poodle wasn't quite Tcup, the shorter pit isn't so short, that mini husky is getting quite tall in an apartment where only little dogs are allowed, that this GSD isn't quite full bred looking as he gets older, and the chi is looking a bit tall to be full bred and so on... Back yard breeders will tell you anything to get you to hand over the money.. Here's one of my favorites.. "If you can't afford my prices, you can't afford these dogs anyway" I always laugh at that one. It's meant to make you feel like your not good enough unless you spend a lot getting a dog. Mix breeders are really good at throwing that out. Personally, in no way can I spend much money getting a dog, but have more then proved I can afford to care for them!! All my dogs I currently have were free.

So in the end, its really about the parents. What you like, and where you get. Getting from reputable breeders, you will pay a lot for that piece of mind for tested parents, pups with shots and anything else already spent on them. That doesn't mean things can't happen, but the percentage rate of getting a healthy dog is much higher because of the care and money put into them. These people rarely make money off their sells because it goes back to the dogs plus some. The back yard breeders price match the good ones and sometimes are even more, and they do and make a lot of money because its rare much of that goes back to the dogs. Your, in most cases, going to run a 50% chance either way, sometimes less with them. A lot of them, I have met some that don't care if their parents have health issues.. They want the money from the pups. --- And then theirs the oops dogs. They aren't bred, it was an accident. Again, as long as parents were healthy, you should get healthy pups. But you don't really know as the parents are not yours. You don't even know if they have had their shots. But if you adopt, again, taking all the chances, because you don't know where they came from at all...
Good people, bad people everywhere. Good breeding, bad breeding everywhere. It's in all breeds on both ends of the spectrum. To try and pick on one breed or mix and bash that one as if they are all the problem, is actually quite ridiculous, and is how things like breed bans get started.
Mixes have been around since forever. Even poodle mixes. I get irritated that they went from *free to good home* to *$2000.* (lets not argue on how free is bad. I'm just saying that's what it used to be, and pointing out the huge jump) for anyone to think it's only poodle mixes that did this, they are kidding themselves. (Only saying as an example) Because I am seeing it across the board. Go to Craigslist alone. There are so many made up names for all the different mixes that my head spins sometimes trying to figure out what the heck they actually have. $400 and up..

The dog world is crazy these days. Gotta always figure out what people are trying to pull on both the buyers AND sellers side of things. To have breed bashers, well that doesn't help and is a disservice to dogs in need of that breed.

This isn't to offend anyone, isn't to offend any place of where people get their dogs.. As far as im concerned, they all need good homes. It's only a long winded feeling of my own that I hate it when issues of all breeds get blamed on one breed. It seems to me, that the article that the original post is based from, who ever wrote about poodle mixes are so bad... That person feels that if poodle mixes were bannished, then all problems would be gone with what those byb's do. Sounds like a banning to me. But I assure you, it would solve nothing, just as pit banning has solved nothing.

And that's just one persons opinion

 

[SpicyBulldog]

While I do believe any can have problems, and any can be healthy... It comes right down to how healthy are the parents? Every breed has something notorious.. And it's true when mixing, you can cancel things out through genetics. Please note, I said CAN.. That's because a lot of breed issues need to be matched by both parents to have that come again in a pup. BUT not all aliments need to be double matched.. Those that don't need a double dose (same bad gene from each parent to match up) are able to continue to be an issue, even in mixed breeds. As a matter of a fact, new issues can be made if mixed breeds are being bred as though they are full bred, an issue that I delt with.

You made an excellent post. I only wanted to point out that even recessive ailments can be produced in a mix. Many diseases are widespread across breeds. This is why polygenic and simple recessive diseases are seen in these mixed dogs who's owner bought into "mixes are healthier". Which I think is something most people tale issue with. The dishonest of some of these breeders that haven't any idea what they are doing.

 

[revolutionrocknroll]

They also prey on people who believe they are getting a "hypoallergenic" dog, when we know that such a dog does not exist.

That's not true, "hypo" means "less," not "non." A lot of dogs are in fact hypoallergenic.

My number one biggest problem with all of the Poodle mixes is simply that all of the desired traits can be found in the Poodle.

I disagree, all of the doodles I've met in my area have a different temperament from the poodles in my area. I think the poodles around here must be poorly bred because they're all neurotic, anxious animals. Maybe they're fine in a home environment, but in daycares at least they don't seem to do as well as other breeds/mixes including doodles. The crossing seems to help with this issue. I'm sure a well bred poodle would be different, but they seem pretty sensitive in general, and some of the breeds they're crossed with seem to balance that out. Nothing wrong with a sensitive dog, but it's not for everyone.
Plus, some people just have different preferences. If someone wanted a poodle, they would have gotten a poodle. I don't really see what's it to you whether or not someone wants a particular type of dog.

@GitaBooks I'd get used to that attitude around here. Every so often a crossbred bashing thread will pop up and you just can't let it bother you because nothing you say will change anyone's opinion. They get so hung up about purebreds, and believe crosses are so inferior they should only be adopted as unwanted dogs from shelters/rescues. It has alienated a number of members with crossbred dogs.

I will agree with them to some extent though. It is difficult to find a reputable breeder of crossbred dogs. I tried finding a cockapoo breeder a couple years ago and I found one that looked okay but didn't answer any questions I had regarding the health and temperament of her dogs. I don't agree with those who say that any breeder that breeds crosses is automatically a bad breeder. I also think that there are plenty of terrible purebred breeders out there as well and the issue isn't with what people are breeding but rather how they go about doing it. This designer dog debate detracts from the real problem of irresponsible breeding in general.

 

[Shandula]

That's not true, "hypo" means "less," not "non." A lot of dogs are in fact hypoallergenic.

True, but based on the majority of breeders I've looked at, they really play up the idea that a Hypoallergenic dog causes no allergies. I can only give my opinion based on breeders I've spoken to/people who have bought from particular breeders.

I disagree, all of the doodles I've met in my area have a different temperament from the poodles in my area. I think the poodles around here must be poorly bred because they're all neurotic, anxious animals. Maybe they're fine in a home environment, but in daycares at least they don't seem to do as well as other breeds/mixes including doodles. The crossing seems to help with this issue. I'm sure a well bred poodle would be different, but they seem pretty sensitive in general, and some of the breeds they're crossed with seem to balance that out. Nothing wrong with a sensitive dog, but it's not for everyone.
Plus, some people just have different preferences. If someone wanted a poodle, they would have gotten a poodle. I don't really see what's it to you whether or not someone wants a particular type of dog.

It must vary greatly from region to region, as I've met nothing but wonderful Poodles, and over the top "goldendoodles". I'm not against people buying the dog they want at all, I just haven't met an ethical Goldendoodle breeder. That also is not to say that there aren't unethical "purebred" dog breeders either (See "Miniature or Toy Aussies").

@GitaBooks I'd get used to that attitude around here. Every so often a crossbred bashing thread will pop up and you just can't let it bother you because nothing you say will change anyone's opinion. They get so hung up about purebreds, and believe crosses are so inferior they should only be adopted as unwanted dogs from shelters/rescues. It has alienated a number of members with crossbred dogs.

I certainly have not seen that attitude around here, especially since I would say the majority of people on here have mixed breed dogs. I never owned a purebred dog until I got Levi, and I loved all my mixed breed dogs growing up.

 

[revolutionrocknroll]

True, but based on the majority of breeders I've looked at, they really play up the idea that a Hypoallergenic dog causes no allergies. I can only give my opinion based on breeders I've spoken to/people who have bought from particular breeders.









It must vary greatly from region to region, as I've met nothing but wonderful Poodles, and over the top "goldendoodles". I'm not against people buying the dog they want at all, I just haven't met an ethical Goldendoodle breeder. That also is not to say that there aren't unethical "purebred" dog breeders either (See "Miniature or Toy Aussies").









I certainly have not seen that attitude around here, especially since I would say the majority of people on here have mixed breed dogs. I never owned a purebred dog until I got Levi, and I loved all my mixed breed dogs growing up.

Well of course you haven't noticed. But you would notice something if every time someone made a thread about your dog's breed/mix/type it was nothing but negative. A bunch of people ganging up and talking about how horrible it is that people breed your dog's type and how everything that people say about them is a lie when those people have limited experience with these dogs and certainly haven't owned one, and still try to argue with the people that do! It doesn't happen every week, maybe every few weeks, every few months. I've been here a few years and I've seen my fair share of them. The OP's a newer member and already she's noticed the negative attitude. So I think if you had a dog and people have literally told you here that you were an idiot for buying it, then you would notice too. I mean, come on, we even have a sticky in the breed section (which has some misinformation in it btw) about how awful it is to buy a mixed breed when there ARE good breeders out there- they are harder to find though, I'll give you that.

 

[Naira]

The main culprits are the lab x poodle mixes and the golden x poodle mixes. These designer dogs are very often falsely marketed and their breeders rely on ignorance. I'll come back and post the website later but I have seen "English teddy bear golden doodles" being sold for 8,000 dollars. It's absolutely a scam.

Most people are buying these dogs because they want a dog that doesn't shed. When you mix a high shedding dog with a low shedding dog you don't automatically produce a dog that doesn't shed.

People are buying these dogs because they don't like the poodle look. When I let my poodle's hair grow out...everyone thinks she's a doodle.

People are buying these dogs because they are supposed to be healthier. They are not.

People are buying these dogs because they want a "lab personality" with "poodle hair". I don't think many have met well bred standard poodles. My girl has a perfect temperament, which isn't hard to find in standard poodles.

I think the most non-sensical thing of all is that the the most expensive, most desired and "most guaranteed" doodles are the multi generational ones bred back to poodles again. So people are walking around with dogs that are 75% or 87.5% poodle, that they paid more for, and would refuse to get a poodle. Makes no sense.

The Aussie labby goldy bordie doodle marketing relies on ignorance of the standard poodle breed. The dog they are creating already exists.

 

[Naira]

Minis and toys do not represent standard poodles IMO. They are massed produced from poor lines and most I see are extremely neurotic.

All poodles are supposed to have the same temperament but bad breeding and over popularity of the smaller poodles have resulted in shaky temperaments.

 

[ChessaQ]

My problem with doodles is that they are very unpredictable in size, temperament, haircoat. Also they have a massive price tag slapped on all of that, when in reality you're getting a mixed breed that could turn out 100 different ways. There are a few decent breeders out there, but many are scammers or at least care nothing except about making money because of all the hype surrounding the breed.

I don't think that all of cross breeding is bad, but it's getting way too common, and pretty soon there's going to be way too many breeds with very little differences between them. So many people that fall for the supposed 'hybrids' are people with little knowledge of dogs, and so get scammed into something they're not ready for.

Around here at least, the majority of doodles I've come across have been big, clumsy and less than smart. I know not all are like this, but because of bad breeding, many are.

 

[PoppyKenna]

I'm sure there are good breeders out there. There are good and bad breeders of anything, but some breeds (and mixes) tend to be more dominated by bad breeders for some reason. It really happens as breeds gain popularity.

One of my biggest issues is with owners - at the end of the day, this is still a mixed breed. I don't think mutts are any worse than purebreds but I have a BIG problem with "designer" owners who put my shelter mutts down because they are pound hounds while their doodle, also a mutt, has a higher price tag that somehow elevates said dog as "better".

It doesn't happen all the time, but it's happened more times than I think it would, or should. I actually had a woman comment once in regards to my terrier mix that she couldn't imagine owning a mutt....as she trotted off with her "Puggle".

 

[PoppyKenna]

I should also add that if every breeder was truly responsible and honest, it wouldn't matter too much what they were breeding (as long as they're not outright destroying a breed) because their dogs would be far less likely to end up in shelters anyway.

 

[FOS]

I know a teeny tiny little T cup poodle, that as a 3 year old, can fit in the palm of your hands. She is very sweet. Will greet anyone with a happy wiggle, any other animal with a happy wiggle.. She rarely ever lets out a yip unless she is playing.. She can be taken anywhere with care, as she is fragile with her tiny size, not that she has realized that at all. I have also seen golden doodles in our area that are great! Very approachable, very sweet and happy. Always ready to play. If there is even one good breeder out there doing it how it should be done, you can not lump them all in one. You can not. You do a diservice to the animals in need. You really do. The pregidism alone makes it hard for the ones in shelter even to find homes because people don't want the ignorant bull that people put out. And I can even use myself as an example on that one, WITH THIS BOARD. A long time ago, I was on this board. Now I was a different person then. I am now 43. And even though I was still a "stand my ground" type of person, I am way more so now, with way little care what people think of me or of what I have.. For example, in less then a week, I have rescued a Euro Dane that desperately needed help. I didn't know at the time she was a euro, I have since learned that though. I have also very quickly learned that the Euro has its bashers who are very strong about how people should not have them, and thoughs who do are uneducated. Really?? Here, let me uneducated you across the !!%&¥€£¢÷π%!! Head!!!! So in other words, this wonderful dog should not be allowed a home because THAT person doesn't like her breed? Well tough. They are gonna have to sit and spin and cry all night over it, no sweat off my brow.
But you know what... I wasn't always that strong. I would stand up, but to much bashing..... apparently I still needed some growing up to do, cause I would cave under pressure. I'm not proud of it. But in that time of my life, having young children, I didn't want them subject to people's pregidism and bashing issues. At the time, I didn't know its better to just be stronger. While on this board, I had helped a cockapoo with getting a new home. She needed homed, I had the space, and I helped. It wasn't long after I got her, this board was bashing cockapoos. It didn't matter how much I Stood up for her, I was always met with how "horrible" they are. Mine was great. All others Ive seen were great. But the bashing continued. Everyone is so sure that these designer dogs are such an issue!! No, they are not. Quit calling them designer dogs for one. That may help, that's a people problem, not a dog problem. But it didn't matter. Then I noticed in public we would get looks. As if we did something wrong. I finally had her up to a good home. I found her a wonderful home that loves her to bits!! They are not sided at all by the stupid people who try to breed ban poodle mixes. I ended up getting Ocean. My Dane/golden mix. I still have her at 5 years. She will be 6 years in Jan. I couldn't imagine life without her. But now, being older, and stronger, and not caring one bit who I make mad... When I think back, I know I failed Bella Rose. I failed her by letting this board, and other people bully me into not keeping a wonderful dog because of her breed. And no, i wasnt told to give her up. I was just bullied for having her. People were tought to hate her, and that came back on me. I wasn't strong enough to stand up and flip everyone off with pregidis opinions. And I don't think anyone noticed that she slipped away off the board, with Ocean replacing her. Now that I am helping Sasha, and learning that there are people who hate the Euro's... I am going to do for her what I should have done for Bella Rose. Flip off anyone who wants to have a cow that she exists. I'm not just doing this for Sasha, but also for Bella Rose. I am fixing a wrong from a long time ago. Now people here can look down on me all they want. But I assure you I'm not the only one with skeletons. However, I bet I'm about the only one willing to let mine peek out so others can learn off of them too.... Only if people are willing to learn, many people are not teachable.
So the next time anyone wants to bash a breed, please keep Bella Rose in mind. Understand that you are part of the problem why they are being turned away, as not everyone is at a time in their life where they can stand against the bashing crowd. It's YOU that causes many of these dogs to be put down by the inhumane bullying you do to people, over something that isn't even any of your business. It isn't anyones business what dog people prefer to have in their home, what dog they choose to rescue, as long as they provide a good one. As for me, I'm not the push over I used to be. Nobody forms my mind for me, I form my own. Even when it isn't popular to do so. But I at least try to be nice about it at first, lol. I just want to point out how much breed bashing really does hurt the dogs that people claim to care about. And tell you of a true story, of the diservice you do to them. That even THIS board did to one, cause I wasn't stronger at the time. Now I can take my blame where it lies. But don't think for a minute that your without blame when you push people to that point. When you cause a good pup to be put down cause you convensed someone they should not have their dog, or that they should not adopt that dog. Dont pretend that breed bashing doesn't hurt them. Don't think for a minute that trying to cause breed banning isn't horrific. Cause you are the one that needs education if you REALLY believe that. Instead of breed bashing, wouldn't it be better to support people who give them good homes? To try and help people learn about them? But its human nature to spread hate before love, and never take the responsibility of their own actions, rather to point at someone else.

Like I said before, if you REALLY believe that it's only poodle mix breeders that rely on uneducated sells... You are so past kidding yourself. In the real world, all full AND mix breeds have breeders that rely on uneducated people. ALL of them have those breeders. So to get away from that, means to get rid of ALL dogs. There problem solved. It's something that won't go away. But making the problem worse is hardly the answer.

This post is merely to stand up for those who have been hurt by breed bashing/banning, both human and animal. Bashing turns into banning. You can not stand up for pits, but support the future banning of others. And even if it isn't a legal ban, if you have convenced people to discard them, to rally together against them, causing death or home loss to innocent animals who deserve a good home... It's a banning. As for me, I hate all breed bans. I don't agree with any of them. And it's hardly OK to say, get used to it. I think it's okay to stand up for what's right. If we didn't, we would still have people in chains, people denied education over sex/color. And because one breed just "got used to it" they are now being killed ruthlessly and looked at as monsters in many areas. Mine is one of them, and we are fighting it. Other breeds have had to NOT get used to it, to save their beloved breed. Stand up for what's right and don't get bullied over our dogs. Or we might as well just get rid of them all.. I will hide mine, just sayen...

No, this post is NOT pointed at ANYONE. Just to point out some things that really go on in real life with the courage to step through the ugly in order to be better.

 

[FOS]

After reading that, I thought HOLY COW, someone is going to take what I say wrong.. It sounds way to harsh to be put in words without tone. Maybe I should just delete it, for get along sake... But it won't let me. So please know I'm just calmly talking about something I'm compationate about, because it did effect me a long time ago. I realize there are just people out there that are going to do things, with no care of who they hurt. But its my hope to shed some light on this for those who do care. And to stand up for dogs like Bella Ross and Sasha. That's just me

 

[FOS]

I forgot to say... Anything that is a mix breeder, will have a harder time finding a good one, over full bred. Not just poodles. This is because in full bred dogs, you can find people who actually show, therefore, are only breeding the best with as little health issues as possible to do well in showing. Where as with mix breeds, its highly doubtful you will find someone who shows their dogs, works for confirmation and coat, temperment, less health issues, to be able to do well in shows. That's because shows are about the full bred animal. You can't have confirmation on an F1 mutt. ALL mutts can turn out about in any way. What the genetics pull most from in one pup, may not pull that way in another. That's the wonderful thing about mutts!! You can get anything. It's the human mind that decides to expect them to all be the same, and deems it a problem, not the dogs. Quit expecting so much out of our wonderful mixes to fit inside a box, and know that it's pretty cool to get variety. It's the full breds job to fit in a box, not the mutts. And the full breds that don't fit in the box, go on to be pets. When people get the difference, and stop insisting that designer dogs are mutts, but still expect them to fit in a cookie cutter box (which is highly unfair and way to much to ask, by the way) then you will understand better that they are okay. You can't play both sides. Designers are mutts, we can all agree with that. But they should get to be like any other mutt. You get what you get, and you love them for who they are... They are pets. When people lie about what they will be, that sucks. But it really is everywhere with all breeds. With fb and stuff like that, its easier today to spread the word that "your cockapoo's and pugels and what ever, truly are mutts. Don't compare your mutt to my mutts, cause their still a mutt" lol... It wasn't so easy to get your ideas across back when..

 

[KayWilson]

I can see the point of the "purists" who say a breed is already in existence, so why create more? There are plenty of breeds who can cause little or no reactions for allergy sufferers, these can include Afghans, Mexican Hairless, Bichon Frise, Havanese, Coton de tulear, Schnauzers, Poodles, etc. But I can also see why people may want a doodle. I mean who can't love a good scruffy dog?

I had a poodle/cocker/schnauzer cross and she was an amazing dog. The only issues with her were genetics. She had all the issues of a cocker, mixed with the issues of the poodle, and the issues of a schnauzer. She really was a genetic mess, but a good dog.

And that's just it, for the most part most doodles are being bred for the money and, at least every one I've seen, are genetic messes. Either they have a defect that could have been prevented or they are a over hyper active mess which could be prevented by proper screening of the parents. I also hate how most breeders think they can charge astronomical prices for what works out to be a mutt, and people buy into it because of the cute name and cute faces.

Although I'm sure there are well meaning people out there that try their best to breed healthy dogs, however, they most of the time can't prove the lines are clear. I know for a fact that a registered breeder of a certain breed, say a labrador, will not sell a dog to another person who is planning to breed it to another breed of dog, say a poodle, as the pups from a registered AKC or CKC breeder are normally sold under spay and neuter contractions - meaning they need to be fixed in order to uphold the contract with the breeder.

So if the people breeding the doodles, like f1's, are saying their dogs papered pure breds who have tests to back them up, where are they getting them from? Are they purchasing purebreds from registered breeders and going against their contracts and using them to breed? Or are they picking their dogs up from Joe Blow's farm down the road? If the latter then they can't really deem the dogs lines to be clear, because they don't know the full genetic history.

I don't mean for this post to be a bash, and I'm sure your dogs are great dogs, and I have nothing against mutts as they are my favourite non-breed of dog lol. I just feel it's unethical to charge a large sum of money for a mutt thats parents can't be traced and are often bred without the health of the pet in mind and knowing the temperaments of the entire line. Which is a change for me, because after my last dog died I was set on a cavapoo. Man, how my opinion has changed lol.

 

[Naira]

There isn't much logic behind the golden labra doodle craze. Most people just like the look and the low shedding promise.

This is a 100% standard poodle. Most people don't associate poodles with this look. If they did, there wouldn't be such a stigma behind owning "just a poodle". Instead people would rather own a 75% or 87.5% poodle that's called a doodle. Again, only talking about the golden and lab mixes.

 

[akodo1]

I read an article that stated buying poodle mixes was unethical because so many were bred by irresponsible breeders and then ended up in shelters. However, it failed to mention that the same thing happens to all other breeds of dogs as well.

Yes, many other breeds end up in shelters. My experience and opinion points to those who are creating 'designer dogs' are producing dogs with little regard for the dog and only as a stream of income. Note that this isn't a special category for hybrid 'designer dogs' but also for certain classes of purebred breeders - especially those advertising 'teacup' varieties or special rare nonstandard colors.

We have six poodle mixes and one pure poodle, because of allergies in the family. While I know poodle mixes don't always work against allergies, it helps with my families allergies and so we are very thankful for that. The article said this was not true and they didn't help with allergies, however.

The article also claimed they did not always behave properly, but all dogs are individuals no matter what. All our dogs are unique, but all of them are wonderful. Cinnamon, my miniature goldendoodle, is the most loyal, sweetest, most intelligent doggy ever and is always there when I need him.

Many dogs can behave improperly. Many hybrids can behave properly. As can many purebreds and as can many shelter mutts. Many goldendoodle producers have been saying the goldendoodle is specifically better on this regard. This is false. As many goldendoodle producers trying to cash in on the craze simply acquire the cheapest parents they can find, designer dogs and other 'fashion breeds' are a real risk for carrying genes that impact their behavior in a negative way in spite of solid training.

You can't counter the legitimate argument that there is a greater risk of flaws by saying all sorts of dogs can be flawed when someone criticizes the goldendoodles as a whole for falsely pushing the idea they were special

It is certainly true that you can't predict their size completely, Cinnamon is 50 lbs and was suppose to be 30 lbs, but our family doesn't mind, because all our doodles are so gentle, from our 15 lb maltese mix to our 90 lb golden retriever mix. They are highly intelligent, gentle with most other pets, love to learn tricks, and another great thing is that during the winter they can grow thick coats to keep warm and they can then be shaved short in the summer and still look so handsome and cute!

While it doesn't matter to you, nevertheless it is a flaw.

I guess I wrote all this just because I felt a little hurt when someone told me that doodle dogs weren't friendly, healthy or useful, when that is so not true about our dogs. There are so many ethical, wonderful doodle dog breeders out there, and mix-breed dogs are often healthier then pure dogs because of hybrid vigor (heterosis). All dogs have faults, but I can't imagine life without our pack.

#1 Hybrid vigor in dogs is either non-existent or is unrelated to dog health as we generally understand it. There are some studies that show that dogs with hybrid vigor are slightly smaller than would be directly predicted by parent size, and smaller size generally leads to longer lives, but that' not what most people consider 'more healthy'.

#2 Two dogs with poor genetic health bred together will produce offspring with poor genetic health, regardless if those two dogs are the same breed, different breed, or mutts. In animals that do exhibit a high degree of hybrid vigor, this is leveraged by choosing particularly high quality and healthy examples of each breed, it is well known that hybrid vigor cannot overcome flaws from poor breeding stock.

#3 the reason mutts got a reputation for being healthy was two-fold. Less chance of getting a duplicate bad gene due to less chance of the parents being closely related, but mainly because those who were genetically weaker died. Either they didn't survive as strays or the working class who needed working dogs put down the unhealthy ones because they weren't as good at doing the tasks needed as the healthy ones were. Raw survival of the fittest.

Also, for the record the person who created the labradoodle has stated that he regrets the decision because of how many unethical breeders jumped on the bandwagon he started with various mixes linked to cutezy names who were churning out crap dogs. I really challenge your assertion that there are so many ethical designer dog breeders out there, especially in the face of what the originator of the 'designer dog trend' states.

 

[akodo1]

I had helped a cockapoo with getting a new home. She needed homed, I had the space, and I helped. It wasn't long after I got her, this board was bashing cockapoos. It didn't matter how much I Stood up for her, I was always met with how "horrible" they are. Mine was great. All others Ive seen were great. But the bashing continued. Everyone is so sure that these designer dogs are such an issue!! No, they are not. Quit calling them designer dogs for one. .

Okay, I couldn't read all of that, the wall of text with no paragraphs was a bit much.

I'd still like to point some things out.

A poodle and a lab make a pup, a poodle and a cockerspaniel make a pup, no one is saying those pups are bad. No one is calling for all cockapoos to be rounded up and euthanize.

What people are objecting to is

#1 claiming a mutt is 'special' because it has a cutziy name. 50 year ago there were poodles getting pregnant via cocker spaniels, and those dogs were mutts. Nothing has changed.

#2 Designer dogs have been touted as being wonder dogs, taking the best of both breeds and putting it in one package. (Lies. You can get the worst of both breeds in one package too). Claiming greater health due to hybrid vigor (lies as well) and claiming the dogs as somehow better than both generic mutts and purebreds. (lies)

Now, people are promoting the truth, and that's that 'designer dogs' are A. nothing special. B. often bred by people who are doing a disservice to dogs and owners alike by just churning out dogs for profit with no consideration for the health of the dog, etc. (Note, they are not the only ones doing this, but that doesn't change the fact that they ARE doing it)


Further they absolutely ARE 'designer dogs'. They are exactly what that word was coined to mean.

What's more, by you choosing to call a poodle x cockerspaniel mixed mutt a cockapoo, you are enabling the idea that these 'designer dogs' are something special.