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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
Hello,

our pug, Scooter, is 2 years old.
He started drinking a lot, so he started peeing in the house a lot, so we took him to the vet who did a urine test and put him on antibiotics for around 2 weeks to treat possible UTI.
The antibiotics were done last Friday. I thought he showed some improvement in regards to not peeing in the house anymore.
I took Scooter back for check up on Thursday. They checked his urine again and they said some things got better, others got worse.
He had a PH of 7.5, gravity was worse(??? I am not sure, I had written it down but I cant find the notes anymore), urine was not as clouded anymore..
They wanted to do urine culture but my gut tells me its not his urine but something different..So he will go back on Thursday to get bloodwork done instead. If this comes back normal, he will get the culture anyways.

My question now is:
Could pears have some kind of effect on anything?
He is obsessed with pears and eats them all the time. We have a pear tree so there are enough on the ground to eat (mushy pears, ripe pears, non-ripe pears, etc )
The vet said it shouldn't make a difference other than him pooping more due to the fiber (which he does..and started to do it in the house now too..plus peeing in the house). The pears are not toxic and are fine for him to eat..

his symptoms are:
- drinks a lot
- pees a lot ( in the house, on the bed, the carpet, anything)
- poops a lot (due to pears and lots of fiber I guess)
- acts like he is starving but actually gained weight..(due to eating too many pears?) he is around 21lbs..he is a little chunky and I started giving him less kibble (he gets around half a cup of grain free 4Health duck a day)
- pants a lot
- acts normal otherwise, plays, runs around, naps, explores the yard, barks at neighbor dogs,, etc.

I just dont know what to look for anymore if the bloodwork this week doesnt show anything.
Thanks for your help already!!
 

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I agree with getting a bloodtest done, but honestly I'd go ahead and do the culture as well.

The specific gravity is basically how concentrated the urine is. In a healthy pet, it can fluctuate throughout the day....But being too high or too low can indicate an issue. Too low means the urine is very dilute, which can sometimes be the first sign of kidney failure. It's the kidneys job to concentrate the urine so the body isn't losing excess water. When the kidneys aren't working as well and they're starting to fail, the can't do that job as well, and the result is very diluted urine.

If the gravity is too high, then the urine is very concentrated. This is usually a sign of dehydration. It could just be dehydration at that moment, or if it repeatedly tests high, then it could be a sign of a more chronic dehydration issue, which pets on kibble diets sometimes have. Very concentrated can also be a sign of diabetes, because the body is letting sugar leak into the urine. Or it can be high if there's a lot of protein in the urine, which could point to kidney failure or also diabetes.

Obviously, it's a bit inconclusive by itself and the best way to really figure out what's going on is by doing a blood test, which will give you kidney enzyme levels, and a blood glucose level.

As far as the pairs go, I honestly couldn't tell you. Pears are usually something that are given in small amounts as treats, not gorged on. I'd be a bit concerned about the amount of sugar he's eating from those pears. I'd suggest picking them up if you can. Maybe going out before you let him out and checking to see if any have fallen. You can also probably find people to harvest the tree for you if you let them keep most of the pears.
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 · (Edited)
Thank you Tigger!

The gravity was actually high, now that you explain it again.
The last time they checked the urine was too diluted and now it was too concentrated. But I got the urine probably less than 5 min before we walked into the vet´s office, maybe that has something to do with it.
For some reason,. my gut tells me he might have diabetes..I don`t know why and I hope I am wrong...but maybe he was already prone to it and the amount of pears, and sugar that you mention, now tipped him over?
I don't know anything about diabetes though. My grandma has it, and she is not supposed to eat a lot of fruit because of the sugar in it. I guess that is my reasoning behind it but honestly, I have no clue.

Yeah the pears... I want to get rid of the trees in general. We have 2 trees in the yard and there is just a lot of pears.. If we could get rid of one, we should be able to build some kind of "fencing" around the other and cut it way back so that he cannot reach them anymore. I am hoping that during winter time he will go to "pear rehab" and forget about them by next year...

I just weight him earlier too. He is exactly 20lbs.
The picture is a little older and he was probably around 17ish in that picture.
 

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Have they checked his blood sugar? I'd ask about that as well when you go back. Diabetes causes increased peeing... Good luck!
 

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Yes the level of sugar in the pears and the urine issues did make me think of diabetes. And the fact that he's drinking so much water. But it seems like it would be weird to develop in such a young dog.

If they did an in-house dip stick test on his urine, it more than likely included glucose. Maybe you can call and ask? That would tell you right away if he is leaking sugar into his pee, and could indicate diabetes.
 

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Yes pears and any fruit for that matter can affect urine PH im not a vet or vet nurse but my dog Jessie was on raw food with fruit and veges and in the end my guts told me something is wrong nad it could be the food with the fruit and veg in it causing all her urine problems her PH was 9 normal is around 5.5-7 so end of day spent 60 odd dollars nzd that is and sent urine to be analyzed they confirmed it was due to fruit and veges in her diet.

Ever since ive kept her on prey model raw and within few days it was normal and she could pee easily! so i keep her away from fruit and veg. once gave her a treat with vegetable fibres wham it went back to 9. so some dogs just cant tolerate fruit and affects urine it seems
 

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He gained 18% of his body weight in sugary fruits?! That's not good for anyone, let alone a tiny dog. I would definitely, immediately cut out the pears, get his weight down and get urine cultures and bloodwork done. Even if he doesn't have diabetes, that much fruit isn't good for anyone or anything.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
@amaryllis:

I agree with you on the weight. As soon as I realized he was eating that much fruit, I cut down on his daily ration of kibble to balance it out. He also gets carrots and beans, etc for treats.
The weight gain is not completely due to the fruit but also due to me probably overfeeding regular kibble in general. After I did some research on here, I noticed I was overfeeding all of the dogs so I put a stop to that.
@crazy: I read almost every topic you post because I like following your story with Jessie so I know how much trouble you went through with her and finding the right foods, etc. It makes sense that too much fruit can cause issues. And I will definitely keep him away from it now.
I did tell the vet he eats a lot of pears and I was worried. She said it shouldn't cause an issue except for too much fiber in his diet.

Scooter was a rescue, he, his dad and his sister, had to live outside in Ohio and Florida their whole lives. They did not get the best vet care during that time and his dad actually passed away shortly after he was rescued due to heart worm. They never received any preventative, shots, flea meds, or any other care for that matter. So I don't know how much his history might have to do with any kind of pre-existing condition in that area?
I just hope the vet can find something on Thursday. I want him to be a happy pug, not one with pee problems and a pear addiction:)
 

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@amaryllis:

I agree with you on the weight. As soon as I realized he was eating that much fruit, I cut down on his daily ration of kibble to balance it out. He also gets carrots and beans, etc for treats.
The weight gain is not completely due to the fruit but also due to me probably overfeeding regular kibble in general. After I did some research on here, I noticed I was overfeeding all of the dogs so I put a stop to that.
@crazy: I read almost every topic you post because I like following your story with Jessie so I know how much trouble you went through with her and finding the right foods, etc. It makes sense that too much fruit can cause issues. And I will definitely keep him away from it now.
I did tell the vet he eats a lot of pears and I was worried. She said it shouldn't cause an issue except for too much fiber in his diet.

Scooter was a rescue, he, his dad and his sister, had to live outside in Ohio and Florida their whole lives. They did not get the best vet care during that time and his dad actually passed away shortly after he was rescued due to heart worm. They never received any preventative, shots, flea meds, or any other care for that matter. So I don't know how much his history might have to do with any kind of pre-existing condition in that area?
I just hope the vet can find something on Thursday. I want him to be a happy pug, not one with pee problems and a pear addiction:)
I didnt realise you read nearly every post/thread i do about Jessie! thanks for telling me! i wasnt sure anyone did these days so its good to know others are indeed following nad reading them and can gain useful info from my and Jessies experiences!

Yes thats a good idea to keep him away from it and see what happens for sure. however wont hurt to get bloods etc done to make sure no long term damage. Hard to know if any pre exisiting condition unless do blood work and told the vet all the history.

Too much fibre in diet yes but is the vet aware it can cause the urine ph problems to go sky rocket high as well as affect concentration etc? pugs arent big dogs so its easier for them to over dose on such things and for such to affect them in ways it would take longer in a larger dog.

Sometimes have to question vets.
 

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Honestly I'd start by removing the pears. Pears contain a lot of water, they might be making him feel more thirsty because of the sugar level, they're probably causing him to pee and poop more. The constant sugar is probably affecting his behavior.
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 ·
Ugh, just typed a whole update and it didnt save :)
In short:
- all pear trees are cut down and gone
- Vet appt today for ears and remembered to bring in urine sample for follow up
- ears of course infected so received drops
- unexpected: crystals (and rods?) in urine which means def. UTI
- was put on antibiotics and special prescription food to get rid of crystals

Good thing:
He went from 22lbs last year to 17.3lbs just now at the vet (The vet tech said he is the skinniest pug she had ever seen..and he could still loose a couple if you ask me).
Caught the UTI early and are able to treat before it gets worse

Question:
How can we prevent one? Would cranberry supplements help? The Vet said it might just be a pug thing as they are prone to bladder issues.
 

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Ugh, just typed a whole update and it didnt save :)
In short:
- all pear trees are cut down and gone
- Vet appt today for ears and remembered to bring in urine sample for follow up
- ears of course infected so received drops
- unexpected: crystals (and rods?) in urine which means def. UTI
- was put on antibiotics and special prescription food to get rid of crystals

Good thing:
He went from 22lbs last year to 17.3lbs just now at the vet (The vet tech said he is the skinniest pug she had ever seen..and he could still loose a couple if you ask me).
Caught the UTI early and are able to treat before it gets worse

Question:
How can we prevent one? Would cranberry supplements help? The Vet said it might just be a pug thing as they are prone to bladder issues.
Glad you got the pear trees taken care of! Also good you at least got an answer regarding the urination.

As for the crystals and how to prevent them, it depends on the type of crystals. Do you remember what they were? Struvite or Oxalate? It honestly could have been caused by the pears lol. Usually crystals form because the urine pH is not correct. Too acidic and you get oxalate crystals. Too alkaline and you get struvite. Urine pH is very much affected by diet, which is why you got a special food to help stabilize the pH and dissolve them.

My cat was hospitalized for several days with a urinary catheter because of struvite crystals. He was first put on Hill's c/d wet, which I used for several months. He's since been switched to a pray model raw diet, and he's had no recurring issues with his bladder. Raw is a lot more natural of a food source, naturally helps acidify the urine, and also upped his water intake which helps to keep the urinary tract healthy. I didn't need to add any additional supplements or anything. My dogs have all been on raw and none have had a UTI or bladder issues.

I'm not sure if you have one in your area, but try looking for an integrative veterinarian. These are certified and licensed veterinarians that use a combination of modern medicine as well as more holistic approaches when possible. Treatments like herbs, acupuncture, essential oils, diet changes etc. Have his records and results faxed to them. They should be able to help you figure out the right long term diet, including possible supplementations, to help prevent future bladder and u-tract issues.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Thank you for your reply! I honestly do not remember what crystals they are but I will call them tomorrow and ask.

Could it still be the pears? He hasn't had one since last year? I dont even want to think about that he has been sick all this time without me realizing it. He didn't act any different this time around.

I will also check with the vet to see what she thinks about his food. I don't know if i want to go raw, I don't know much about it and therefore I assume its really messy, lots of work, and kind of expensive? Will look into it though because I had a feeling this might be a solution.
 

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Thank you for your reply! I honestly do not remember what crystals they are but I will call them tomorrow and ask.

Could it still be the pears? He hasn't had one since last year? I dont even want to think about that he has been sick all this time without me realizing it. He didn't act any different this time around.

I will also check with the vet to see what she thinks about his food. I don't know if i want to go raw, I don't know much about it and therefore I assume its really messy, lots of work, and kind of expensive? Will look into it though because I had a feeling this might be a solution.
Oh I didn't realize it's been that long since he's been eating pears. There's honestly no telling. Dogs can be very stoic sometimes. When I worked at the vet clinic, I would see dogs with HUGE bladder stones. Like, a stone the size of a duck egg in a little 15lb poodle. Obviously it didn't grow there overnight, or even in a week. But the dogs would show virtually no noticeable symptoms until the day/week/night they came in.

A lot of vets are not very raw friendly, so she may tell you to just stick to the prescription diet. Those diets are scientifically tested and proven to work for their intended purpose, so it's something she is confident in telling you to use so your dogs health issues don't come back. There's no scientific testing behind raw at all, especially for these kind of health problems, and there are a lot of concerns and misconceptions about raw. I honestly don't fault the vets for their recommendations and being against raw. I knew when I switched my cat that I was doing it at my own risk. But to me, raw made the most sense, both for a general diet and for his urinary issues. I was using the rx canned diet only, because kibble made zero sense at all....It was a mix of stress and the lack of water in kibble that lead to this issue in the first place. The rx diets have added salt to encourage the pets to drink more water, and I wasn't comfortable with that.

Anyway, that's another reason to look into an integrative vet. They are typically a lot more open minded about alternative diets, and are often better versed in canine nutrition.

I probably spend no more than $60-70 a month on raw to feed 2 dogs (weights are 30lbs and 15lbs) and a cat (weighing 10lbs). I get a lot of meat on sale, so it's even less sometimes. It's cheaper than feeding high quality kibble like Acana, Orijen, Fromm, Earthborn etc. It's also WAY cheaper than the rx diet the vet wanted my cat on. That stuff was $2 for 5oz can of food, which is one day's worth for him. I estimate that a day's worth of raw food for him is well under 50 cents. I get a lot of meat for under $2/lb. I get a lot of meat on sale at mexican markets and sometimes asian markets. I regularly get chicken and pork for under $1/lb. I also have people I buy live chickens and rabbits from to feed for pretty cheap. I have a butcher I get free scraps from of venison and beef.

It takes me about 10 minutes to make a weeks worth of meals for all 3 animals. The mess isn't terrible....I just wipe down the counter when I'm done. You get better and more efficient the more you do it. I know a lot of people easily get flustered and frustrated with meal prep, but they sometimes over complicate it too. I don't weigh anything or measure anything. I feed 80% muscle, 10% bone and 10% organ, but it's all eyeballed and guestimated. Balance is achieved over time, so each meal doesn't have to be perfect. It just has to feed the dog.

If you have facebook, I can send you links to a couple groups you can join. One of them has an extensive resource section on how to start feeding raw.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Yes, I have facebook :)
If you could send me the link for the one with the resource section that would be great because right now, I have no clue at all.

Do you keep the food in the fridge after meal prep or in the freezer?
I do meal prep for myself every Sunday for the entire week more or less so I guess 10 more min for the pups wouldn't make much of a difference...
I have 3 dogs (the pug in question 17lbs, pug mix 18lbs, rat terrier 24lbs).

I dont know how my vet would react because food was never really talked about. She knows what I feed and she didn't push the prescription food really. She just mentioned for the 19 days or whatever it is, it might be good so we could get rid of the crystals and afterwards we would take a more close look on where to go from here.

I also mentioned to her that I started them on brewers yeast because we had more ticks than usual and wanted to get them away from Nexguard in general (pricewise and chemicalwise) and she said yea that could probably work and to just try and see what happens.
So I think overall, she seems kind of open to "green" medicine? I guess I will find out if I pursue the raw diet..
 
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