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Discussion Starter #21
I have been sharing mostly about the bottle babies lately, but have no fear, my other little ones are still getting all the loving too! They are huge chunky polar bears of fluff, lol. They love being held and cuddled, and our daily tradition of the whole pile on my lap continues, I know it won't last long, though I also know they will try it even when they are too big to all fit ;)

Wynn, Bucky, and Hitch are doing amazing, having taken fully to the bottle. Bucky can still be a bit picky/lazy with it, but other than that, they latch right on and drink until full, which is normally about 20ml per feeding currently. Right now they are eating every 3ish hours during the day, and go 5 overnight, eating at 1am, then sleeping until right around 6. They always tell me when they are hungry by sniffing around at the blankets, so I allow them to set the schedule for how often they want fed, which is working great for them if their fat bellies tell me anything! They are extremely active and strong for being so tiny, little fighters!

Rose continues as before, there has been absolutely no change. She proved just before the puppies arrived that improvement was possible, however I feel as long as she is with the pups, things will remain as they are. She allows me to lean in to refill her food and water without doing anything, so we are able to work with each other at least. Once they are weaned and she moves to her new foster home, hopefully there will be further improvements.
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They are going to be big dogs! Any idea how much Rose and the puppies' father weigh? I love hearing that the bottle-fed threesome are thriving. I think you're right that Rose will not improve at all while she's still with her puppies. She has got too much going on with both the puppies and her own hormones.

Do the eight nursing puppies get along with the three bottle-fed ones when Rose is not around? Or do you keep them completely separated?
 

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Discussion Starter #23
They are going to be big dogs! Any idea how much Rose and the puppies' father weigh? I love hearing that the bottle-fed threesome are thriving. I think you're right that Rose will not improve at all while she's still with her puppies. She has got too much going on with both the puppies and her own hormones.

Do the eight nursing puppies get along with the three bottle-fed ones when Rose is not around? Or do you keep them completely separated?
Rose I feel is somewhere around 60lbs, dad being a great pyr is probably in the 80-120lb range most likely. Yep, sadly I feel that's the case. We are able to exist together at least, then she can go to her new foster and hopefully figure things out.

They are completely separated right now, once I wean them though, which will be much younger than normal, they will all be together again. The reason for complete separation at this moment is because I wouldn't want smell from the bottle babies getting on the others and her maybe rejecting more. The sad reality is I have to think around every corner, something as simple as their upcoming worming may make her reject them. I am however fully prepared to bottle feed the whole litter if that's what it comes to.
 

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My life is still stupid crazy stressful... so I haven't been in here for some time. Been reading and catching up with your new litter.

I adopted a feral like dog, Jaya. She was 5 when I got her, and that was like 6 years ago. She's never ever lifted her lips in a snarl, but I know how it goes with that fear the dog has with people. Even after all of this time, Jaya still gets nervous if I have to handle her in any way, she shakes if I need to put a collar on her, or cut a mat out of her fur or clip her nails. I worked very hard to gain what trust I have received from her...but at least she will remain laying down and I can walk past her now, and she takes food from my hand in a relaxed manner...and she loves to come into the computer room and lay down next to my chair.

I hope that who ever gets Rose has a quiet house hold, and realizes that not all dogs can be 'befriended' and bond with their new owner. Jaya and I have an 'understanding' but not what I would call a bond. I think it's hardwired into her to be suspicious of humans and no amount of affection can change that. So again, I hope the new owners can deal with that reality. I knew when I got Jaya this might be the case, so my only intent was to give her a calm quiet home. For the bonding and attention, I got a Golden Retriever...and HaHa also became Jaya's friend and even a teacher for her. AU now has that roll in our life.

As for those puppies...OH... I love Goldens... and I also had a Great Pyrenees x Rough Collie mix...Harper...who is my avatar photo. She looked like a 100 pound Lassie. So, those puppies... I Want One !!!! Dang I wish I was rich.... but big dogs eat a lot of food...lol. Jaya's about 70 pounds and AU is around 75 - and those pups are going to be large.

I'm sorry you are having more work to do with the 3 bottle fed puppies. The names are cute too. I'm looking forward to seeing how they will look in another few weeks.

Even though I can't get on here as much as I would like, I'll have you, Rose and the pups in my thoughts.

Stormy
 

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Hi Stormy,

I'm sorry to hear that your life continues to be full of stress and worry. Sending my prayers to your niece. I always enjoy reading about Jaya and AU. Jaya certainly won the lottery when you brought her home. So did AU.

Take care, Susan
 

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Discussion Starter #27
My life is still stupid crazy stressful... so I haven't been in here for some time. Been reading and catching up with your new litter.

I adopted a feral like dog, Jaya. She was 5 when I got her, and that was like 6 years ago. She's never ever lifted her lips in a snarl, but I know how it goes with that fear the dog has with people. Even after all of this time, Jaya still gets nervous if I have to handle her in any way, she shakes if I need to put a collar on her, or cut a mat out of her fur or clip her nails. I worked very hard to gain what trust I have received from her...but at least she will remain laying down and I can walk past her now, and she takes food from my hand in a relaxed manner...and she loves to come into the computer room and lay down next to my chair.

I hope that who ever gets Rose has a quiet house hold, and realizes that not all dogs can be 'befriended' and bond with their new owner. Jaya and I have an 'understanding' but not what I would call a bond. I think it's hardwired into her to be suspicious of humans and no amount of affection can change that. So again, I hope the new owners can deal with that reality. I knew when I got Jaya this might be the case, so my only intent was to give her a calm quiet home. For the bonding and attention, I got a Golden Retriever...and HaHa also became Jaya's friend and even a teacher for her. AU now has that roll in our life.

As for those puppies...OH... I love Goldens... and I also had a Great Pyrenees x Rough Collie mix...Harper...who is my avatar photo. She looked like a 100 pound Lassie. So, those puppies... I Want One !!!! Dang I wish I was rich.... but big dogs eat a lot of food...lol. Jaya's about 70 pounds and AU is around 75 - and those pups are going to be large.

I'm sorry you are having more work to do with the 3 bottle fed puppies. The names are cute too. I'm looking forward to seeing how they will look in another few weeks.

Even though I can't get on here as much as I would like, I'll have you, Rose and the pups in my thoughts.

Stormy
So sorry to hear things are still stressful for you. Hope everything smooths out soon!

At this point, it is looking more and more likely Rose will end up living her days out as a barn dog on a farm with one of the rescue's volunteers, she doesn't like being inside, and her complete lack of trust or interest in people makes her not a good dog to have close to people like she would be in a home. I feel she will be happiest in that sort of environment sadly.

The pups are adorable, and so fluffy, they look like little polar bears, lol.
 

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Hi Stormy,

I'm sorry to hear that your life continues to be full of stress and worry. Sending my prayers to your niece. I always enjoy reading about Jaya and AU. Jaya certainly won the lottery when you brought her home. So did AU.

Take care, Susan
Thank you for your prayers and thoughts. Jaya and AU have been good for me, helping me in trying to relax and in trying to de-stress. I always try to stay calm around Jaya and AU is silly enough to make me smile and he needs to be played with..so there is some diversion in that.

I am hoping bad things are 'over the hump' now....but unfortunately, that hump was a huge mountain and even if it's downhill and there's still a lot to deal with and will be for probably another 3 or 4 months or more.

Stormy
 

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Sorry to derail but AU has such an unusual name - may I ask why you chose it, whether it means anything and how you pronounce it?
 

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It's been a minute since the last post! Had to pull another to bottle feed today, Blitz was failing to thrive on mom, getting pushed off, and as such is so thin under the fluff. Though he has never had a bottle before, he took it right off and downed 60ml, he was hungry, poor baby! 😢 I may have to pull Tori as well as she is not as fat as the rest, watching close on that one. Rose plain and simple doesn't have good quality, or quantity of milk to keep them fed, and along with that as her interest in them grows less, she is feeding them less which is just not working for pups this young. So far the others are doing well, fat and happy, hoping that will last until I begin mash, but if not, I will pull the whole litter to bottle feed. Say a prayer, think good thoughts for little Blitz and the rest. Need to get Blitz better, (don't worry, he is still active and doing okay other than being really thin) and put some weight on him, and the rest watch all the more like a hawk to make sure they are doing okay.

All others, bottle babies included are doing well for the moment. Just watching close.
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Poor little Blitz. It's very good that you are weighing them regularly and monitoring their growth. It sounds like he'll put on weight in no time with your care.

By the way, what do you bottle feed puppies with? Is their an infant formula for dogs?
 

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Discussion Starter #32
Poor little Blitz. It's very good that you are weighing them regularly and monitoring their growth. It sounds like he'll put on weight in no time with your care.

By the way, what do you bottle feed puppies with? Is their an infant formula for dogs?
His energy has increased so much in just a couple feeds, it's crazy! I know he will be okay, just needs to put that weight on.

Yes, esbilac puppy milk replacer is what I use with them. It's specially formulated for pups who need bottle fed.
 

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Discussion Starter #33
I had to pull Tori this morning, she was fine last night, but went downhill suddenly, dehydrated, weak, and not wanting to take the bottle. She is getting SQ fluids, nutri-cal, and syringe fed a bit of formula every hour or so, and though she is not out of the woods yet, is showing a tiny bit more strength, so I have hope. Please pray for her! I am pulling two more off directly as well, they are getting that hollow flank look that Tori and her brother got just before they started to go downhill. Blitz is doing well so far, drinking off the bottle and gaining weight. I regret not pulling Tori off sooner, hoping I am not too late :(

The decision has been made to pull the litter off Rose completely. Every time I take the weakest off her, another one is right there to take it's place, a pup who was fat and doing well before starts to get thin. She is not providing them enough, she is not feeding them enough, and she has no care for them, she leaves them screaming and hungry all the time. I tried hard to let her take care of them, but her stress and worry for herself is just too great and she is neglecting them to the point where they would die without me stepping in, and that is where I draw the line. She will go to her new foster most likely Friday and I hope that she will start to improve once away from her pups and the stress involved.

This is their new setup until she leaves, I figured staying in the puppy room where she has been all along will help reduce stress for her. They are very happy in their playpen and since they are still so small, it has plenty of room for everyone.
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Sending a prayer for Tori. Please update us on her condition when you have a chance.

Yes, I think you're right that you need to start feeding all of them. Stress can certainly have a detrimental effect on lactation, and Rose is clearly unable to relax.

Once the puppies begin recovering their health and gaining weight again, I look forward to celebrating the milestones in their development.

You've had difficult litters before. You can do this.
 

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Discussion Starter #36
Thank you for your prayers! Continued giving her fluids, syringing formula, and nutri-cal throughout the night, this morning she seemed a tiny bit more alert and wanting to move around so I set her back in with her siblings, and just look at her now! She not only is up walking around, but she also took the bottle right away and ate a good amount. I cannot tell you how happy this makes me, it's like a huge weight has been lifted. There is a light in her eyes again, I am hopeful all will be well from this point on.

PS, forgive the dirty pups, I was just about to step in to feed them when I saw this, so hadn't cleaned them up yet. They are so messy, but have to wait a little longer before I can do a bath. Diaper wipes are my friend right now, lol
 

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Discussion Starter #38
Awesome! I've been waiting all day for an update! I am relieved.

How are the other two you were planning to start bottle-feeding?
One has taken to it right off, the other I am struggling with sadly. She has refused the bottle completely, so I am having to force feed her right now.
 

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I am so happy that they are starting to thrive. I'm glad that Rose fed them long enough to give them the colostrum, I know it has antibodies that will help keep them safe until they can get their first shots.

Do you have any help with the bottle feedings? I can't imagine how much work it must be to feed them all! If you don't have help maybe you could use something like this

I hope that Rose does well in her new foster home. I know LGD's can have a hard time accepting new people and are naturally suspicious, but it did sound as if she was starting to do better with you before the pups were born.
 
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