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Discussion Starter #1
Is There Hope for Rabies Law Reform? - Dogs Naturally Magazine

Despite the fact that the duration of immunity of rabies vaccination has been shown through the work of Ronald D Schultz PhD to be at least seven years (by serology), the laws assume that animals are not protected once the three year period (or one year in the case of one year rabies vaccinations) has expired.

But the results of a new study by Kansas State Veterinary Diagnostic Laboratory (KSVDL) offer some hope for a change in the laws in future.
I really hope that we do see a reform to these laws. The rabies vaccine is one of the most reactive vaccines and has been linked to many common diseases including cancer, allergies and joint disease.
 

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You know.. I'm all for not over-vaccinating, but I really wish people would stop posting "vaccines cause this problem or that" without even citing sources. Vaccines haven't been proven to do any of those things.

If you disagree, cite some reliable sources (actual papers).
 

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Discussion Starter #4

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Thanks, I will read through and make a post on it tomorrow. I would be interested in finding some actual data, though, because that link did not post any of the data, only interpretations of it.
 

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Nothing jumped out at me in the article you posted, so I looked for other sources on the issue. I found a study that shows that that there is no conclusive link between the two. This doesn't mean that it doesn't happen, only that the Purdue study was not very conclusive. Neither is the one I will post.

Source:
Lack of Association between Repeated Vaccination and Thyroiditis in Laboratory Beagles - Scott-Moncrieff - 2008 - Journal of Veterinary Internal Medicine - Wiley Online Library

I've bolded a few parts I felt were important.

Thyroglobulin is believed to be an important autoantigen
in the pathogenesis of thyroid disease in dogs
and humans. Experimental autoimmune thyroiditis can
be induced in susceptible mice by parenteral injection of
murine, bovine, or human thyroglobulin.16,17 Whether
anti-thyroglobulin antibodies are directly involved in the
pathogenesis of spontaneous thyroiditis is still disputed
.18
Although it is believed that thyroiditis is mediated
predominantly by T cells, there is some evidence that
anti-thyroglobulin antibodies play a direct role in
initiation of autoimmune thyroiditis. Thyroiditis has
been induced by injection of canine serum containing
anti-thyroglobulin antibodies directly into the thyroid
gland of dogs.19 It is possible that the anti-thyroglobulin
antibodies detected in the dogs in this study differ from
true pathogenic autoantibodies
. Anti-thyroglobulin
antibodies frequently are found in healthy humans,
and these antibodies differ in their epitopic specificity
from those found in humans with autoimmune thyroid
disease.18 The epitopic specificity of the antibodies
detected in this study was not determined.
In this study, the highest rate of thyroiditis (3/5 dogs)
was observed in the unvaccinated group of dogs
. Because
of the unexpectedly high rate of spontaneous thyroiditis in
the control group, the power of this study to test for
a positive association between vaccination and thyroiditis
was low. The chance of detecting a 100% rate of thyroiditis
in the vaccinated dogs was 80%, and anything less than
100% would likely not be detected. However it should be
noted that the rate of thyroiditis in the vaccine groups
in this study was actually lower than that of the
control group. OD for canine anti-thyroglobulin antibody
activity also was not different between vaccine groups at
the time of postmortem examination. In addition, both of
the dogs with evidence of thyroid dysfunction were in
groups that did not receive the rabies vaccine. Thyroid
dysfunction in these 2 dogs was likely a consequence of
spontaneous thyroiditis. Results of this study do not yield
any evidence to support a causal relationship between
vaccination and thyroiditis.

The presence of spontaneous thyroiditis in the dogs in
this study is not surprising considering that thyroiditis is
known to be hereditary in the beagle. The use of beagles
was an intentional feature of the study design to
maximize our chance of detecting an effect of vaccination.

This was also the reason why vaccination with the
multivalent vaccine was performed every 6 months, as
is done in some kennel settings, rather than the more
typical yearly frequency. The higher than expected rate
of thyroiditis in the control group did have the
unexpected effect of decreasing the power of the study.
Because the pathogenesis of thyroiditis in beagles might
be different from that in other breeds, the results of this
study cannot necessarily be extrapolated to other breeds.
This experimental study yielded no evidence to
suggest that routine immunization causes thyroiditis in
dogs or is responsible for the high prevalence of thyroid
disease in some dog breeds
So, basically, neither study was conclusive.
 

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If anybody is able to find the actual Purdue study, I would really like to see it. I can't find it for anything, and I would really like to see some hard data. The link provided only has the interpretation of the data.
 

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Discussion Starter #9 (Edited)
If anybody is able to find the actual Purdue study, I would really like to see it. I can't find it for anything, and I would really like to see some hard data. The link provided only has the interpretation of the data.
Unfortunately, it is no longer available on the internet. I used to have a copy on another (long dead) computer found via the Wayback machine, but now that is no longer available.

ETA: I have messaged one of my contacts who *might* still have a copy.
 

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Discussion Starter #10
Ha. I have just found out from my contract was that the study was never published and the reason was that Larry Glickman would have lost too much money in research grants from the pharma industry. Very telling. As I said above, too much to $$$ lose. I am now kicking myself that I never saved a hard copy of the full research, it was invaluable.
 

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Discussion Starter #13
Anecdote from a 40-year breeder of dogs:

"In 40 years of breeding and showing dogs I have never vaccinated a dog again after one or two puppy shots, and no kennel cough shots ever. Have never had a dog with any sort of autoimmune condition, have never done a routine de-sexing and have never had cancer in a dog other than a couple of cases of mammary cancer that were fixed with a lumpectomy and spaying and some bone cancer in a breed that is extremely vulnerable to it. No diabetes, epilepsy, Cushing's etc. Have never in my life had a dog that needed to be on medication permanently."
 

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Honestly IF the rabies vaccination does remain just as effective at 7 years in, then there's no reason to vaccinate every 1-3, that's simple common sense. Even if it's good for 5 years! Then vaccinate every 5.

But that would need studies, and in the USA at least, where rabies is a fairly uncommon thing due to vaccinations being required so frequently, vs say India, where it isn't required at all and tens of thousands of people get bit by rabid dogs every year, I'll take the possible elevated cancer risks over the guaranteed horrible death that rabies is, for pets or people.
 

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The trouble with asking for a reliable source is that what is and what isn't a reliable source is basically a matter of opinion. People can make a study to try to prove or disprove pretty much anything really. ...and the whole thread will just go around in circles... :)
 

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Finding a study is difficult, but it is at least a bit more reliable than 'well I heard a breeder say...'

Given how incredibly cheap rabies vaccinations are /now/ (if you can't afford 13$ at tractor supply once every 3 years then let me send you some cash I got picking up recycleable bottles...), I doubt it's Big Money interfering with any tests about extending the time between shots, at least.
 

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The trouble with asking for a reliable source is that what is and what isn't a reliable source is basically a matter of opinion. People can make a study to try to prove or disprove pretty much anything really. ...and the whole thread will just go around in circles... :)
It's possible to understand how to analyze studies to determine if they're valid or not.
 

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As someone who works with animals daily, I can tell you that one of the scariest things in the industry is a sick animal coming in, with no PROOF of updated rabies. "oh my cat never goes outside" "oh my dog is only off leash in the backyard (you know with the racoons)"
Ok, I'll risk my life because you said your animal is a perfect angel.
And you know what, we do risk our lives. I've never seen a sick animal been turned away from treatment because the owner didn't provide proof.
I've been bitten, had the animal die and owners run out the door, waited for my phone call from public health to say yay or nay.
You want to own pets? you want them to be healthy? Then you have to follow the protocols so everyone is protected.
SAFTEY FIRST
Some animals do not tolerate these vaccines well, but we can't trust everyone who walks through the door, I'm sorry it just doesn't work like that and your a pretty selfish person if you think your pet should get special treatment.
If they can prove that 100% of rabies vaccines are good for 7 years, great! But what percentage are you willing to ask people to risk their lives for a pet.
 
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