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Dog owners as a whole are pretty lame. Look at me and see my pretty dog that either has been cowed into submission or has been ignored. I would guess that less than 25% of dog owners spend more than 10 hours a day in contact with their dog. Dogs deserve better than that.

How many hours a day do you spend with your dog? I would think that less than 18 hours would cause behavioral issues for the poor beast.

Maybe dogs are to be seen, but not interacted with.

Most people keep their dogs in a cage. Called a crate by the PC crowd.
 

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I suppose I spend about 15 hours a day with my dogs. I work/go to classes 8 hours a day and drive 30 minutes each way.

And even then, 8-9 hours of that is sleeping.

Right now, my brother is home during the day so he spends time with them, but next semester he won't be.

I don't really think it's fair to say that just because people work they "don't deserve" dogs. I think if someone is able to provide food, water, good shelter, vet care, training, and love they are a darn good owner.

Besides, what would be the alternative? Put the dogs in pounds, and/or have them put down? That just sounds like PETA.
 

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I'm home most of the time with my dog, and when I'm out walking it's very unusual to see me out and about without him. I'm the exception to dog owners though. Unless a person is disabled and unable to work like me, retired, or does not have to work for some other reason most people do not have the luxury of staying home with their dogs. Back when I worked I spent a heck of a lot less time with my dogs. I worked 5 days a week and had personal stuff to do on my off time that I could not include my dogs in, if you would have told me back then that I did not deserve my dogs I'd have looked at you like you had grown a second head and asked who in the heck you were to judge me.

My dogs, whether I worked or not, have always been my family, have always been treated very well and by most people's standards are spoiled. I've gone without taking care of my own needs in order to provide one of them with the vet care that he needed. I did not go home for a visit (I live in a different state then my family) because I flat out refused to let anyone else take care of my elderly dog unless it was absolutely necessary. I would have done the same no matter how much time I was able to spend with them.

Crates are often necessary. I personally don't crate but if my dog was into eating the house I would do so, or if I had a puppy that I was housetraining I'd use a crate. Considering I don't know the reason a person is using a crate I don't judge.
 

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I only spend about 3-4 hours awake with my dogs on work days. I don't think there's anything wrong with that. They're happy and healthy and well balanced, and I think it's pretty judgmental to say so many people don't deserve dogs. We have to make a living, and we do come before our dogs. As long as we provide for them as much as we can, I think that's more than good enough.

I do think that crates are overused, but they are also very needed, and when used properly a very good training tool. I crate my dogs as little as possible, but sometimes I just need them.
 

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Most people have to work at least eight hours a day at least five days a week. Some of us are fortunate enough to be able to bring our dogs to work occasionally or regularly but that's hardly true of everyone. If people who can't spend at least eighteen hours a day with their dogs are bad dog owners, then I would guess any number of people I know who have dogs trained for agility, obedience, rally, and/or therapy work are terrible owners. For that matter, just because someone is able to spend sixteen hours a day with his/her dog does not make him/her a good dog owner. If none of that time is spent training the dog, if the dog is not fed properly or exercised appropriately, and/or if the dog is not given sufficient vet care, it doesn't matter if the owner spends twenty-four hours a day with the dog. He/she is still not a terrific owner simply by virtue of being home x number of hours a day.

There's so much more to being a good dog owner than just being home eighteen hours a day that it's terribly unfair to assume that someone who can only be home with his/her dog ten or twelve hours a day is a bad owner. That owner could still be coming home to let the dog out during his/her work day or hiring someone to come in and walk the dog and spend time with it, for instance. He/she could be doing an excellent job of training that dog to do any number of things during the time he/she could be with it. That dog may not be simply locked into a kennel the whole time the owner is at work (aside from my home office, my dog has the run of my place while I'm gone).
So far as I know, none of my dogs have been behavioral messes even if I can't spend eighteen hours a day with them every day. The one who would have been closest to qualifying as a "behavioral mess" had been beaten and thrown out of a car before I got him, so he did have some issues, both behavioral and health issues, but I did as well as anyone probably could have done with him, and he certainly did not lack for training, exercise, or appropriate food/health care. Or love, for that matter.
 

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Just another quick word on crates. Other than for house-training purposes, I haven't used crates, though sometimes my current dog, immediately after I got him, would just choose to go lie in his kennel, so I left the door open so he could go in and out of it if he wanted to nap there. He's not done that for a long time, so I assume it may have had to do with his liking it as a secure place all his own when he was first adjusting to his new home. I do crate him in the car, for his own safety and everyone else's, as it can be a distraction having a dog bouncing all over a car while you're driving. He typically just lies down and goes to sleep until we arrive wherever we're going.

I also volunteered at a local dog show last weekend, and dogs who are being shown are often crated in between times they're in the various rings (I was working with the obedience and rally rings, and a number of dogs were competing in both those areas) at times when their owners can't be with them because they're, say, walking a rally course or using the restroom etc. It's just safer for the dogs to be crated at those times if there's not another handler/family member at the show who can watch the dog then. Most of the dogs had been shown enough that they understood the routine and just napped or generally relaxed in their kennels then, though a couple of dogs who knew me did stand up to greet me when I walked by their crates.
 

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I'm home all day, every day with my dogs, but even then, I'm doing stuff, and they are sleeping. If I have to cook dinner or clean, I need them to leave me alone. We do go for walks, and play outside, and do training.

I think that there is a definite difference between quality and quantity of time spent with your dog.
 

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I think it's more about quality over quantity as well as the based on the individual dog. I probably spend on average, 3 hours (maybe less) a day actively engaged with my dog. He isn't a cuddle-r so if I'm not doing something he's interested in, he actually prefers to be by himself. He's very aloof in that way. In my case, the behavioural issues would probably arise from spending even 10 hours a day engaging with him. I would be completely burned out and he would be a high strung mess.

However, in the general sense, I do understand the point you're trying to make. It is sad when you see dogs crated/kept inside all day only being let out for potty breaks. I personally knew one such dog, a jrt actually :( In that case, I don't think the owner deserved that dog. He had so much wasted potential and such a poor quality of life.
 

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The vast majority of people I've seen who "spend" the vast majority of the day with their dogs have less quality time than some folks that spend 8 hours/day at work and 8 hours/day sleeping, with still a need to accomplish their own personal needs.

Yes, I use a crate. And, I frequently refer to it as a cage. No need to embellish what it is, but I feel no shame for using it. I frequently spend full days at work/school, and sometimes I leave my dog in his crate overnight. I spend well under 18 hours a day actually spending time with my dog- who doesn't and still has time to work, sleep, cook meals, shower, etc? He has no real behavioral problems. I won't say he's 100% perfect, but what dog is at 1.5 years old?

However, on days when I work I spend time exercising my dog both before and after. I try to do a training session at least once a day. Sometimes I'll go to the off leash park, sometimes we'll go to the pond, frequently we'll go jogging or on a bike ride/run. Most weeks we have agility class on one night and obedience another night. Strictly focusing on time spent with a dog is just ridiculous. QUALITY time is much more important. I do very much agree that there are people out there that don't deserve dogs. However, based on your unrealistic standards virtually no one that isn't a home body that should own a dog.
 

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Haha, if I spent 18 hours a day with my dogs they would turn into zombies. They love their sleep too much, even my hyper two. In the battle of human-vs.-Cuddly Blanket, many days Cuddly Blanket is the winner :) .
Crates have been proven to be beneficial both scientifically and practically, so I don't feel the need to personally defend them. I'm sure anyone interested in them has researched the benefits of their proper use.

I am curious what you would suggest as the alternative, or point to a time in history where humans were better dog owners. In the past they've been treated as beasts of burden, flea-keepers, sources of entertainment, tools to bring in game, or half-wild beasts with no responsible ownership or anti-abuse laws to let out the door every morning and given no vet care.

From a historical perspective, dog ownership is in its elite, shining moment.

I don't like a lot of dog owners out there, but the vast majority of the time it has nothing to do with thinking their own dogs are abused or mistreated.

We've come far, we'll go farther. To give up hope in the middle of the process is like a starving man giving up half-way through meal because he still feels hungry, or giving up on sports because you don't make the Olympic team the first year. You have to keep moving forward, with time results will come. Social growth and change is an extended process.
 

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I am going to say one thing. As I have typed out and deleted my post four times now because it sounds like a broken record.

I work 10 hours a day, 5 days a week, when I get home from work, I have to cook dinner, then dishes, then, I need 'my' time of relaxzation. If Kuma wants to come to me to be petted during this time, he is welcome to, but usually, I just want to not be bothered.

Kuma, if we let him, would want to be only petted 24/7/365 days a year. If we did, I think we'd have chaos. (The human kind, I don't think the dog kind would happen, but who knows.) We humans like our space and I do believe DOGS need that too weather they like it or not. It's just like a toddler. You have to set boundaries otherwise you will have a spoiled rotten kid who gets what they want, when they want and you HAVE to do it because you NEVER told them NO. I bleieve it's the same with dogs.


Look at the pride of lions. Several females, 1 to 2 males (brothers). There are times when they need to bond with each other, but after the bonding, they move away from each other. (Maybe not too far away, but they still have their own space.) And if a family member bothers them too much, they let them know it, the same can be said of our canine companions.

During the weekdays when I work, I'm lucky if I get even 5 minutes worth of training, and even luckier if I can give Kuma 2 minutes of petting/massaging. Weekends, I use for the 'wife' work. (cooking, cleaning.) We MAKE time for Kuma to make sure his needs are met. (A 1 hour walk, a quick sprint, and then, training broken up in 5 minutes, mixed in with play time.) On top of that, we have 'quality' time after I finish studying for my on line classes, where I do pet him and massage him for 15 to 30 minutes and then, I need my break from him. (As I've said, if we let him, he'd DEMAND to be petted 24 hours a day.)

I would love to use crate for Kuma. Hubby has the same mind set as you do about 'PC crates'. I used to argue with him on that when we first got Kuma and he always told me, how would I feel if he locked me in the cage. I told him it would NOT be used as punishment, but used for him to have a 'safe' place when feels he needs to be 'hiding.' for what ever reason. But hubby wouldn't have none of it. So, I swallowed my pride I guess and we've done without it. If I had my way, I would have left his crate inside the house for him to use as a 'quiet' or 'hiding' place if he needed instead of having to put up a barrier around our bed to keep Kuma from going under it when he 'doesn't' want to go outside. (He used to do this before we put up the barrier when we were trying to get him on a schedule.) For 3 months it was a constant struggle to get him to go outside in the morning because he would immediately get out of his bed and 'crawl' to the far corner of the bed and force us to lift the bed to force him out. (usually picked up and carried outside the room and I had to close the door to our bedroom otherwise he'd go run back under the bed.) After we've put up the barrier, the behavior was almost illiminated, then, it was time to make him comfortable by having with me yummy treats. (Even when we didn't put up the barrier he would not come with the yummy treats.)

Now, I have a dog, who the moment he hears me put on my coat and zip my jacket and fiddle with the lock, will come running to me to greet me good morning, I put on his harness and we go for our walk for him to 'relieve' himself and I unleash him after he's done his business for him to run back home. (Because going back home as fast as he can was a very 'high' reward for him.) He did not wonder, would run right back to the house. (We did not cross the road and if we did, I would not let him lose until after we crossed the road.)

I'm betting, if we had showed him that the crate was his 'safe' place, we wouldn't have to have a barrier surrounding our bed. (I even wanted to make my own version of the crate by making it longer, but somewhat shorter so he has to 'crawl' underneath similar to how he gets under our bed, but make it wide enough so he can turn around and move around in it.)

I agree that putting the dog in the crate, lock the doors, and give minimum interaction is cruel and those people shouldn't even own a dog, but I believe, these guys here on the 'PC' world, go above and beyond for their pets weather they crate train their pups or not, even if they don't spend 24/7 with their dogs and to me they are 'far' more better dog owners then, the person who stays with their dog 18 plus hours a day, and never crated and always have interaction.
 

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I can see both sides.
I'm with you that dogs, as social animals need contact everyday with their social group which is most of the time the humans they are living with.
I don't like the thought of leaving a dog alone at home for more than 4-5 hours at a time, but i don't think it makes much if a difference of it's crated or not.
yes seeing dogs being alone for the biggest part of their lifes is a bit sad, but these dogs are still better cared for than a lot of dogs in shelters and on the street. IT's not perfect, but when they have contact for a few hours every day with their human and the human isn't cruel towards them and provides them with food, vetcare, training, excercise, walks etc. I think they live still a pretty good life.

We don't own a crate.
We confined the dog to one puppy-proof room at the beginnning though, when we still couldn't trust him to leave the house in one piece. I'Ts not that different from crating in my opinion.
Sancho is perhaps truely alone for ca. 1-4 hours a day, the rest of there is someone at home, but that doesn't mean that it's quality time.
this dog sleeps most of the time of the day and he's totally okay when people don't pay so much attention to him.
quality time we spend much much less time with him...perhaps 3 or four hours.
2-2.5 hours on walks and a few training or cuddling sessions during the day.
the rest of the time he's sleeping. healthy adult dogs need between 17 and 20 hours of sleep a day after all. :)
 

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I work 3 mornings a week, my husband on the whole works from home, so Betsy has someone around much of the time. However, she doesn't go into my husbands home office, where she would be more than welcome, she spends the time either in the living room with the cats or having a wander around the house or garden. She has at least 2 walks of about an hour to an hour half each day. We took all these factors into consideration before getting a dog, I think many people just think they have a right to get a dog, even if their home life/work life isn't conducive to dog ownership.
 

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I guess Delilah would have been better off being euthanized in the shelter then. She has to be in a crate while we sleep and work because she is not reliably housetrained and gets into everything when she's not supervised.

All of the hiking, training, and cuddling I give her when we are together is negated by the amount of time she spends in the crate. Definitely better off dead :eyeroll:
 
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