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Discussion Starter #1
The sign at the store said ShihPoo. The handler said she was a ShihPoo. The paperwork says Maltipoo. I’m a 17 yr yorkie dad (rip sasha) so I’m not familiar with any other breeds. Hoping that dropping a pic here would provide a more definitive answer. She is chipped and from a reputable Ohio breeder so I’m assuming the paperwork is correct but google image search is no help cuz they are so close in appearance.
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You might be able to tell more as she gets older. To look at her now I would think she looks more MaltiPoo than ShihPoo partly from her color. Usually Shih Tzu crosses have some color and a wider head but not always. I know that is not a lot of help.
 

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What breeder does she come from? In what store did you buy her? I don’t believe that any reputable or reliable breeder would sell their puppies in stores... Wouldn’t be surprised if she was a maltese and poodle mix and the store doesn’t care what they advertise them as. You should definitely go back to the store and the handler, show the paperwork and ask them about this. Sounds extremely sketchy. Ask the breeder about this, go visit, ask for her parents..

According to me she looks more like a Maltese and poodle mix, but really could be anything at this point.
 

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The sign at the store..... So a puppy mill dog.
She could be anything shes cute and I hope healthy but this really is the worst way to buy a dog.
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This is probably the truth behind your puppy. Not the answer you may have wanted when posting this but it’s important to be aware of where your puppy is from and what you may have contributed to. Without knowing it you probably have supported this disgusting industry.
 

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Discussion Starter #6
You might be able to tell more as she gets older. To look at her now I would think she looks more MaltiPoo than ShihPoo partly from her color. Usually Shih Tzu crosses have some color and a wider head but not always. I know that is not a lot of help.
 

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Discussion Starter #7
Ty, we appreciate the opinion. And the vet actually said the same thing. Color scheme leans toward multipoo. She seems to shed a bit so the poodle gene must be stronger. The vet also said she appears to be very healthy so that’s great. She will enjoy a life of getting spoiled regardless of specific lineage like our angel Sasha did for 17 years. She came from a broker hence the confusion. If I had access to the breeder I would ask them of course but that’s the price you pay when there is a middle man. In any case she is shaping up to be a worthy replacement for our beloved.
 

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She seems to shed a bit so the poodle gene must be stronger.
Shouldn’t this mean that the maltese gene (regarding the fur) is stronger since the poodle doesn’t shed? And just because she looks more like one of the breeds doesn’t mean that it’s the overall strongest gene. She might look exactly like a Maltese but get the characteristics of a Poodle.

She will enjoy a life of getting spoiled regardless of specific lineage
Well it’s not the puppy that I’m most concerned about. Even though it’s likely that she has been poorly bred which can result in illness, mental problems and physical problems, it’s not the greatest worry. What’s most concerning is the dogs that are still at the puppy mill, her parents. The dogs that lives in small cages and misery as breeding machines to make a profit to the breeder. Those dogs will never enjoy a life getting spoiled.
 

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Agree with this ^^^^^^^

Not wanting to be accused of beating up on the OP but this form of acquiring a pet should be strongly discouraged and is banned in some countries already because of the horrors of puppy mills and the health of the parent dogs.
 

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Agree with this ^^^^^^^

Not wanting to be accused of beating up on the OP but this form of acquiring a pet should be strongly discouraged and is banned in some countries already because of the horrors of puppy mills and the health of the parent dogs.
Well, I’m not trying to be too harsh on OP. I don’t believe that OP or other people who buy puppies this way intentionally wants to support this industry. But however you twist it or turn it, in the end its each and every persons’ obligation to make a responsible dog purchase. If you take your responsibility as a dog buyer, do your research and choose a good breeder, this would never happen.
 

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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited by Moderator)
Shouldn’t this mean that the maltese gene (regarding the fur) is stronger since the poodle doesn’t shed? And just because she looks more like one of the breeds doesn’t mean that it’s the overall strongest gene. She might look exactly like a Maltese but get the characteristics of a Poodle.


Well it’s not the puppy that I’m most concerned about. Even though it’s likely that she has been poorly bred which can result in illness, mental problems and physical problems, it’s not the greatest worry. What’s most concerning is the dogs that are still at the puppy mill, her parents. The dogs that lives in small cages and misery as breeding machines to make a profit to the breeder. Those dogs will never enjoy a life getting spoiled.


Why did you choose to buy a puppy this way? Yes, it’s the price you pay but why would you ever pay that price? What do you get out of it instead? You also claim that there’s paperwork and that she comes from a reputable breeder so you certainly must know which breeder she comes from.

Yes she has paperwork from an Ohio breeder. Micro chipped and received shots prior to purchase. So I know where she was born. Doubt they conduct tours of their facilities upon request tho so.....And No I indicated she sheds quite a bit so I was thinking poodle gene stronger or she wouldn’t she’s much at all. As for why I bought this puppy at a puppy mill or one which has been deemed a puppy mill by a few members here with little to no facts to corroborate the assumption, that’s what was available to me and I don’t care to get into my politics on what is a mill and what is a reputable breeder. I was just looking for a place to talk puppie stuff as stuff arises. Perhaps I will look for a place less left wing.
 

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Discussion Starter #12
I should add that we toured all the local shelters and found a bevy of misbehaved pit bull breeds almost exclusively so I’m not unsympathetic to the homeless dog problem but We didn’t want a larger breed animal. Especially a pit mix. I also made sure to leave a donation after my tours for the record so I’m not the heathen some seem to think.
 

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I'm very sorry you feel this way if being left wing means caring loving concerned then I am guilty of all of the above but coming from someone who has had rescues all their life who has picked up after the carelessness and the bad breeding and the lack of thought by owners when buying on a whim. Then yes, it is a cause close to my heart. I can't help that I don't want to help it and I won't ever change.
there are many guides as to how to buy a puppy and make sure that isn't from a puppy mill . I'd suggest you read some of that and then make your own decision as to whether you went down the right road or not.I do understand what you're saying about shelters when we went to adopt our last dog the shelters were full of Staffordshire bull terriers, akitas , Rottweilers, etc dogs that really wouldn't suit us or our home environment. So I understand that concern. However when we decided to buy a puppy ( Murphy) I looked for a home breeder...I found his breeder I checked her name I checked her address I checked her home town against all the known lists of backyard breeders , puppy farmers , puppy traders and anyone who had a county court judgement against them for animal cruelty , she showed up on none of these. I then made an appointment to see her but I went early I checked out the area I checked out local shops to see if anybody was hanging up cards with puppies for sale etc they weren't and so I looked at her home, I saw his mother and his father I saw all of their paperwork I saw how the breeder was with the puppies I know that Murphy comes from a one-off litter.

No one has said you're not welcome to talk about puppy stuff . I was just very concerned that the vile trade of puppy farming continues via brokers and pet shops who trade on a puppy's cute looks without any concern for the parents. I feel that the only way to stop this trade is to make people aware and yes that does mean banging on about it and it does mean being " left wing" but it's got to stop and the only way to do that is through education and the only way to make people educated is to continue to spread the word.

So I'm sorry if you feel offended I'm sorry if you are upset but you I did fall for the marketing tricks you went to a puppy shop you bought a puppy via a broker you say you have paperwork but you have no proof and no idea of how the parents are kept that makes you part of this problem it means that you ( and others who will read this thread) needed that education. I'm sorry if that upset you or offended you but it's true and yes the truth is hard
 

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Discussion Starter #14 (Edited by Moderator)
I’m not offended. Largely because I don’t share your views entirely on the matter. Or I probably would be. While I agree there likely needs to be much tougher regulation with breeders across the board, I just refuse to lump all of them into a category of abusive breeder. Especially without firsthand evidence. As for me, I’m just a guy who cares about his pet enough to seek a place where there are experienced people to help bring it up right.
 

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I don’t see this as a political stand point and I’m surprised you see it that way. For me its a non-question and anyone who even cares the slightest about any animal would be against this industry.

Buying a dog is a responsibility. This have nothing with politics or being left-wing or not. It’s honestly just about bringing awareness to the issue and stopping this animal cruelty.

Some ”behind the scenes” photos that many buyers are unaware of show what the industry tries to hide.

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You’re very welcome to talk about puppy stuff and I’m more than willing to talk with you anout that. But when I come across this issue I won’t just look away, this needs to be brought to the attention and can’t be normalized. Hence, we will react and point out the issue.

Regarding the shedding:
Considering her history I wouldn’t be surprised if there’s other breeds in her as well, you’ll never be able to know that. If she’s not suppose to shed it could also be a medical issue.

I have never said that you should’ve bought a dog from a shelter. I said that you should have chosen a serious and reliable breeder. You do this through research, make sure that they breed on good and healthy dogs (with health history documentations Etc). Then you go visit the breeder and the dogs to make sure everything is executed properly. That the breeder is a good and reliable person and that the dogs are happy and healthy. This is the absolute minimum you should do. It’s also important to know that no serious breeder would sell any puppy to a stranger. It’s in the best interest for both of you to have a personal meeting at the breeders home. If the breeder doesn’t care about this or can’t welcome you in to their home, it’s a big red flag and you should never buy from that breeder. If you don’t feel like you have the time or interest to do this research or to be apart of this process, you shouldn’t buy a dog. You as the buyer is utterly responsible for not supporting bad breeders, there’s no way around that.

As @Mad Murphy said, the truth is hard and I understand if this upset you. But this information needs to be spread and people need to be educated about this. Please, just take your responsibility when buying a dog.
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I’m not offended. Largely because I don’t share your views entirely on the matter. Or I probably would be. While I agree there likely needs to be much tougher regulation with breeders across the board, I just refuse to lump all of them into a category of abusive breeder. Especially without firsthand evidence. As for me, I’m just a guy who cares about his pet enough to seek a place where there are experienced people to help bring it up right.
That’s exactly the point, how could you know If the breeder is good or not without firsthand evidence? Maybe not all puppies that are sold in petstores live in that degree of misery and abuse as the videos and pictures show. But how would a purchaser ever be able to know? It’s everyone's responsibility to make sure to not support this. It’s a fact that this does occur and that it’s common. It’s a fact that no good or serious breeder would sell their puppies to a petstore. So it’s only a question regarding on the degree of how bad and irresponsible the breeder is.

This was brought up because you asked about the breed and because you brought up that you’d bought her from a petstore. It wouldn’t be right if nobody raised their eyebrows over that. It’s not okay for this to be normalized and you writing about buying a puppy from a petstore contributes to the normalization and could inspire other to do the same thing. That’s why we’re reacting.
 

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To all of our members, please remember that the Dog Forum is a "welcoming, friendly" forum. I'm going to lock this thread until the moderating team has an opportunity to review it.
 

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Reply from the moderating team.

We have had to edit this thread as some of the comments were becoming personal. I believe everyone agrees that puppy farming is a shocking practice, which we should strongly condemn. We have left the images in the hope that future readers may be made more aware, and think carefully about where they get their puppies from. There is undoubtedly a spectrum of breeding standards, ranging from excellent to appalling, and everything in between. Sadly, especially with some popular breeds and crossbreeds, puppy mill operators are more interested in exploiting buyers than the long term health of the puppies they are selling so good research about the breeder before buying is important.

More information on choosing a puppy responsibly can be found here.



 

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As JoanneF said, we strive to promote responsible breeding on this site. Had the OP asked about this seller, we would have suggested she look elsewhere.

The reason I paused this thread is that we really care about promoting a welcoming, friendly atmosphere on this site. Yes, we can disagree with each other. Yes, we can articulate our concerns. Yes, we can hope to persuade others to think of better options. Yes, we can strive to educate others. But, it does nobody any good, especially the dog, to take on a judgmental, condescending tone and write critical post after critical post. All we end up doing is chasing new members away.

To the OP, I hope that you'll stick around. You have a darling puppy. We'd like to be here to support you.
 
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