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Discussion Starter · #1 · (Edited)
Hello,

I'm seriously considering buying a Pug puppy. Have found a few Ontario (Canada) breeders. They all toot their own horn claiming to be respectable and have Sires/Doms that have competed and won CDN and US competitions. I'd love to get some recommendations from Toronto Pug owners (or from other cities or towns in Ontario). Which breeders should I consider? Where did you guy your Pugs from? What were your experiences with that breeder? Were you able to see them or ask them questions years later?

I'm looking for a Pug with a fawn or apricot colour coat.

Is $1500 CDN a reasonable $ for a Pug puppy today?

Thanks.
 

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Discussion Starter · #2 · (Edited)
Comment.

I have emailed several Ontario (Canada) breeders. Last night. None have replied. 1 has read my email this morning but chose not to reply. Why? I can't really understand why not except it might have something to do with my surname. What else could it be? We've never met (no chance to have butted heads).

I'm not Caucasian. All Pug breeders in Ontario are. And live in small towns. Not the major cities like Toronto, Ottawa or Hamilton. Where it's very multi-cultural.

Which isn't to imply that I think all of these breeders have an issue with potential buyers who's last name maybe Conti, Singh or Chan. Of course not.

I emailed a Shih Tzu breeder from Hamilton. She was Caucasian. Replied promptly and politely. Offering lots of information and answered my questions.

Just something to note for people from Ontario and are persons of colour looking to buy a Pug from a breeder.

Emailed I think the 5 major breeders. 1 viewed my email (got a email msg telling me my email was read)--no reply. Waiting on the other 4. It is Labour Day (public holiday, kids start school tomorrow). Perhaps the other 4 are too busy to check their emails and reply.

Still would love to hear from Pug owners from Toronto or outside of.
 

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Hello, $1500 is way to much for a pug in Ontario, Canada....unless your looking for some kind of top show dog champ...
If no one responds to you try this:

Meet some breeders that are on kijiji.
I know people might scoff at this, but just try it
meet them in person. Check out their home. Are the puppies going to be raised in the family environment or in kennels? Do they own both parent dogs? can you meet both parent dogs? Have they had puppies before? can they provide 3 non family references? ask for health history on both parents.
If people are not willing to answer any of theses questions you probably don't want their dogs. Create a relationship with the breeders, and if something feels fishy, it probably is.
Good luck to you.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Hi Weenie,

Thanks for replying. $1500 is"way too much" for a Pug from a good breeder? Ok. Good to know. Something to keep in mind.

Since I posted last...one Pug breeder has replied. Politely offered a lot of information. Answered all my questions except for "how much are you asking for one of your puppies?". Seems Pug breeders in Ontario have a problem talking about cost. Not sure why. Any how this one breeder that did reply said she didn't have a litter due this year. So I'd just have to keep checking with her...starting next year.

I got more replies from Shih Tzu breeders. Cost per pup ranged from $750-1200 CDN.

Cane Corso breed replied...$1800 per pup. No litters due this year.

Maltese breeders...2 replied...One asked $2000.00. OUCH!! Didn't think Maltese pups cost that much more than a Pug or Shih Tzu...or even a Cane Corso.

Kijiji? Thanks for the suggestion. But, I'd rather contact them via email first before making the long drives just to talk to them in-person and take a look at their kennels or breeding "facility". There was this one Maltese breeder that bred dogs in her home. No kennel. I think she was in Toronto. Same with this one Rottweiler breeder (downtown Toronto).

Will just keep waiting for Ontario Pug breeders to reply. Maybe they were just busy this week. Too busy to check their emails? :) Who knows. I'm not in a hurry for a Pug puppy. It is my first choice...followed by maybe a $750 SHih Tzu (bit reluctant since my last dog was a Shih Tzu...passed away 4 weeks ago..).

Would still like to hear from Pug owners in Ontario.
 

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Discussion Starter · #5 ·
No replies from Ontario Pug breeders this week. A few for some strange reason read my email and chose not to reply. I needed to know if they had any litters due "soon"and how much they were asking for one of their pups. Fair questions I think. Obviously no one is going to blindly fill in the usually application form, meet with the breeder and then put down a deposit...without knowing the cost.

Pug breeders in Ontario are usually at least a 2 hour drive from Toronto. So, it makes sense for me to know which breeders I want to see (based on what colour coat their puppies might be and how much they are asking). Yet 4 out of 5 haven't replied. And the one that did chose not to mention cost. When I emailed her again..she has since not replied. Odd.

Other breeders are very willing to mention cost. Some mention it on their websites.

It almost makes these breeders seem seedy. Possibly racist. Knowing my last name isn't "Davis". As I mentioned...I don't see why else they wouldn't reply to my 2 simple questions. Unless they assumed I'd compare pricing and didn't want the competition with fellow breeders.

Odd. This is only the case with Ontario Pug breeders. Not so with Ontario Maltese, Shih Tzu, Cane Corso...
 

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I think cost is relevant when buying a dog, but I also think that asking how soon you can get a puppy and how much you'll have to put down for one doesn't make you sound super serious. It kind of reminds me of an animal shelter I follow on Facebook, and when they post pictures of cute dogs they'll often get comments like "I'm looking for a dog...how much does this one cost?" and when given the answer, usually throw a fit asking "why are your dogs are soooo expensive?" (They're about $150..not expensive at all).

Clearly that's not your goal here, but if these breeders are in the public eye at all (or even easily found via Google search) they probably get these questions a lot. Yes, they should have answered you, but after awhile they may just not take you seriously. Pugs are very "in" right now, so I imagine they get a lot of mail.

I would try again, this time asking specific questions about their dogs. Not too many, but you want the quality of the questions to show you're serious. Write down the five most important things to you in a dog (temperament, health, exercise level, etc.) EXCLUDING price or when they plan to breed, and send that email out. Don't weed these breeders out by cost or availability, weed them out based on how you feel about them and if they have what you are looking for. Once you get a "short list" (even on the second email) then you can ask them about when they plan to breed and how much they typically charge.
 

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PoppyKenna's post had some great suggestions. I'd also suggest including a short paragraph introducing yourself, your family, and what you are looking for in a dog.
 

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Discussion Starter · #8 ·
PK. thanks for replying. Perhaps that's exactly what's going through the heads of those breeders that chose not to reply. Thinking I wasn't serious. And was willing to waste my time and theirs with those 2 questions.

To save them the "aggrivation"...they should simply list the cost per puppy on their website and keep litter due or delivered current on their website. Then, these types of questions wouldn't be asked. And, the inquiries would be "I am very interested in possibly purchasing one of your puppies, would like to see the Sire/Dam, speak with you and have a look at your facilities...etc.".

Weeding out breeders--COST. I have to say is very important to me. As a guide. As some one already posted before you telling me $1500 is "too much...for a Pug puppy". Knowing that I can consider breeders who might be asking closer to $1000.00. Having said that...if I saw a puppy I REALLY liked I'd be willing to pay up to $1500.00. But not more than I should.

One Maltese breeder was asking $2000 for one of their pups. More than I want to spend on a puppy. No matter how healthy, how much I liked the breeder/facilities and the puppy. One Belgian Malinois breeder listed their asking price as $2500 for one of their puppies...Cane Corso: one breeder $1800...another $2000 for "companion pup" and $3000 "show dog"...etc.So the asking price for a CC pup is wide.If I were considering a CC pup I'd be looking at one between the $1800-2000 range.

As I said. I'm not in a hurry. If I was I would have called this one Shih Tzu breeder asking $750 and made an appointment to meet with her. Talk. Maybe put down a deposit...etc. Go through the steps.

But to weed out a breeder based on availablity? Certainly NOT. But just something I wanted to know. To decide if I wanted a pup in the next month or if I am willing to wait till March 2016.

Any how...I'll play this by ear. Check those websites for upcoming litters due...and maybe just call them. Setup a day/time to meet to talk. That would tell them I'm serious (those unsure...and didn't like my 2 questions).
 

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Discussion Starter · #9 ·
Just tried again emailing a local (Ontario) breeder. This time she replied. Told me her asking price. Which is also $1500. Which tells me that might be the typical asking price and might not be "too much".

She even asked if she had sent me an "application kit" and that she would be gone this weekend. Will send me the kit on Monday. :)

Perhaps she simply didn't see my last email. I don't know. She doesn't have any litters due. And said she would be updating her website when she does.

Any how. Haven't given up on local Pug breeders. Those that still refuse to reply...that's fine. Their choice. And their loss.

I re-emailed some Pug breeders stressing I was indeed serious and in asking those questions, not to assume I wasn't. That they were important to me. It worked with one breeder. But again, I think this one breeder, was just preoccupied. Thought she had replied to me but didn't. :)

Hopefully I'll hear from more Ontario Pug breeders. So far I have 2 to choose from...knowing the asking price for one. Both don't have litters on the way.
 

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Yes, they probably should keep their websites more up to date. Maybe they have good reasons for that (as in, the info is subject to change) or maybe they're just not technologically savvy.

Even if cost is a serious factor to you, I wouldn't lead with that information. If you found, say, a list of 7 breeders you liked, then whittled that list down to 4 breeders based ONLY on what you are looking for in a dog itself (not cost) at that point you could ask what they charge and decide how to proceed from there. Yes, cost is important to you (and to just about everyone) but if you put it lower on the priority list you'll come across as someone who knows what they want in a dog, not just someone who wants a cheap puppy.

Again, clearly not what you are, just what it could seem like in a quick email.

Just out of curiosity, where did you find the breeders in question? Have you considered looking in the US?
 

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I think it depends on the dog. My Aussie is from show lines (even though I'll never show him) and he was 1200. My new Border Collie is from a combination show/working lines (what was I thinking...) and was 700. Both are registered (Aussie with CKC, and Heidi with AKC), but both with limited registration. This is also in Ontario 9my BC is from Cobourg!)
 

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Discussion Starter · #12 · (Edited)
Yes, they probably should keep their websites more up to date. Maybe they have good reasons for that (as in, the info is subject to change) or maybe they're just not technologically savvy.

Even if cost is a serious factor to you, I wouldn't lead with that information. If you found, say, a list of 7 breeders you liked, then whittled that list down to 4 breeders based ONLY on what you are looking for in a dog itself (not cost) at that point you could ask what they charge and decide how to proceed from there. Yes, cost is important to you (and to just about everyone) but if you put it lower on the priority list you'll come across as someone who knows what they want in a dog, not just someone who wants a cheap puppy.

Again, clearly not what you are, just what it could seem like in a quick email.

Just out of curiosity, where did you find the breeders in question? Have you considered looking in the US?

Good point about why asking about the price upfront might not be a good idea. That I might be looking for a cheap pup. Though, if I could....HEH.... But, seriously, like all of us we're looking for "the right pup for US". Which pup we liked the look of and had an immediately connection (during the 8 weeks old meeting).

Where did I find these breeders? I Googled "Pug breeders Ontario". A "Pug Club Canada" website appeared with a list of all the Pug breeders registered with this "club" from across Canada. From province to province. The more "known" breeders. I think this "club" is a "governing body" for "respectable breeders" (every breeder uses "healthy sires/dams" and are all championship winning...offer the same list of paperwork, micro-chipping..etc.)

Consider a breeder in the US? No. I would then have to fly myself just for a meet. :) I have a hard enough time with a 2 hour one-way drive. :)

I know with certain breeds (e.g. Maltese) some recommend it's better to look in the US instead.

Perhaps for some hard to find breed. Ones costing up to $5000 /ave for a pup...would one be willing to fly to meet a breeder knowing things might not jive with one another. And that trip would be a "mini-vacation". :)

Any how...the quest for "the right Pug" continues. :) No hurry. Besides, it looks like there won't be any litters due till early next year.
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
I think it depends on the dog. My Aussie is from show lines (even though I'll never show him) and he was 1200. My new Border Collie is from a combination show/working lines (what was I thinking...) and was 700. Both are registered (Aussie with CKC, and Heidi with AKC), but both with limited registration. This is also in Ontario 9my BC is from Cobourg!)
It varies so much even looking at one breed (e.g. Pug) from breeder to breeder. Which was why I asked about pricing. Just got a 2nd reply from another local Ontario breeder. Her asking price is $2500 CDN!! A full $1000 more than the others I heard from. She's one breeder I'm definitely avoiding and in her case it IS based on cost. :) The most I'd want to spend on a Pug pup is $1500.00. Or any dog actually.

Unless it happens to be a Cane Corso which are typically more expensive anyway ($1800-3000).

I love dogs like every one else here but I do have a limit. :) Not due to financial reasons just don't think it's worth spending a few grand for any pup. Actually I don't think any pup should run more than a grand. :) They are all (from a good breeder) healthy dogs from "prize winning backgrounds". Blank slates. Newborns.

If you were looking to buy a Westminster Kennel Champion running $25000 for breeding then in that case I'd understand the crazy price asked. Not that the owner would give up her dog...so you'd think.
 

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Discussion Starter · #14 ·
Just heard from another Ontario Pug breeder. He was just busy this week which was why I didn't get a reply. Told me his asking price. $1300.00. $200.00 less than the others. :) What I like to hear. But, won't have another litter till next year. Like the others.

So the price range for now is $1300-1500 for a Pug bought from a respectable Ontario breeder.

Still waiting to hear from 2 or 3 others.
 

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Don't forget: Reputable breeders who do health checks and such will quite often have a screening process and/or a waiting list.

I'm currently on a waiting list for a puppy from a breeder focused on health, and by the time I get my puppy, I'll have been on the waiting list for almost a year. Good, healthy pups are worth the wait. :)
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Don't forget: Reputable breeders who do health checks and such will quite often have a screening process and/or a waiting list.

I'm currently on a waiting list for a puppy from a breeder focused on health, and by the time I get my puppy, I'll have been on the waiting list for almost a year. Good, healthy pups are worth the wait. :)

I'm aware of their procedures. Interviews. The 2-3 visits. Before picking up our chosen puppy.

As I said. I'm not in a hurry. If I was I could have just bought a puppy from a pet shop knowing the risks. Though, my first 2 dogs were bought from a national chain (not Pet Smart) and they were very healthy throughout the majority of their lives.

I have heard the horror stories about people who've bought their dogs from pet shops in the US. How they end up constantly taking their dogs to the vets. Tons of bills...etc.

My family (when I was still living with my parents) bought our dogs from the pet shops not knowing about the possible risks. Never really considered breeders. Assumed buying from a pet shop chain was okay. And in our case it was. Lucky perhaps?

But dogs and cats waiting to be adopted from pet shops deserve homes too. Just as animal shelter pets do as well. When you see them caged in a tiny 2ft by 2ft cage...knowing they are there for the majority of the day...let out maybe for only a few hours a day...kills u. Makes you want to buy them all and set them free. But we can't. Obviously.

Or that dogs in shelters will be put to sleep after a certain length of time...I could have adopted a dog there as well.

Guess I"m a little hypocritical..opting to buy from a breeder this time. :) The only benefit is there's less chances for the puppies to have tons of health issues vs puppies bought from certain "mom & pop pet shops". Dogs bought from breeders aren't immune from developing health problems for whatever the reason in time.
 

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I don't think you're hypocritical.

My heart dog was one that my parents bought from a pet store when I was younger. He was awesome. Rock-solid temperament and healthy as a horse. But, we got lucky.

Over the course of time, I have had two other puppy mill dogs - both adopted (from rescues) as puppies. Both have had major behavioral issues, though both were relatively healthy. I still have one today, so *knock on wood*. The other passed five years ago; she escaped from the house and was hit by a car.

I love my Chisum, and am learning a lot from him but....I am throwing a lot of money into professional training sessions because his behavioral problems are fairly extreme. I will totally rescue in the future, but my next dog will be from a good breeder so I know a little more about what I'm getting.

EDIT: I do agree it's hard to see the puppies in pet stores and not feel bad and want to save them, but the people who breed these dogs bank on ignorance and bleeding hearts. You don't buy, they don't make money, they go out of business. Hopefully more people can figure that out. But there are also a lot of people who buy these badly bred dogs because it's fast and (usually, not always) fairly cheap. I think it has more to do with the fact that they don't have to "prove" themselves...these people pick up a cute puppy, and when the puppy isn't cute anymore the dog goes to the pound. There was no screening process, and there is no guilt or effort lost, so it's easy for them.
 

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I agree with @PoppyKenna -- definitely not hypocritical. :)

I just mentioned waiting since from what I read it sounded like you were asking after pups in breeder's next litters, and often times those pups are already spoken for and you might have to wait for another litter later down the line. <3
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
PK. Buying from a pet shop. We were both lucky (you with your first).

Do pet shops buy from puppy mills still? Probably. Do puppy mills still exist? Maybe. Even with the crack downs going on all the time. I think it's the "mom & pop shops" we should be careful about. Perhaps it's much less likely to get a puppy mill dog from a large franchise pet shop (where my parents bought our first 2 dogs).

They both came with the same paper work and microchipping we get from good breeders.

I might still consider buying from a pet shop. Won't totally rule that out. If I see a puppy I like enough. But again I'm not in a hurry. And I do prefer this time around to try buying from a breeder. Plus, at a pet shop you only have so many choices of breed or puppies of one kind of breed.

Something I'm wondering...buying from a breeder...at the 8 week period...when we go to choose our puppy...how does the breeder know/and us...when we pick up the dog we're getting the right one? Does the breeder give us the micro-chip number? Pups look pretty much the same from the same litter.
 

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Discussion Starter · #20 · (Edited)
I agree with @PoppyKenna -- definitely not hypocritical. :)

I just mentioned waiting since from what I read it sounded like you were asking after pups in breeder's next litters, and often times those pups are already spoken for and you might have to wait for another litter later down the line. <3
That's been the case for me so far. :) I missed the boat by mere months. But then again I didn't think I would be looking at buying a dog till now.

Again. I'm not in a hurry. And as things look I'm going to HAVE TO wait till maybe Spring time 2016. :) Or just before. Assuming there's a litter due early next year.

Though, I did have a choice of 2 Shih Tzu pups from this one breeder (want a Pug..1st choice). And there are pups available to me if I were looking to buy a Siberian Husky or Cane Corso. I live in a condo. :) There's a 40-lb weight "limit" for the dogs we can own. Though, having said that there's a joker down the hall with a 60-70 pound Golden Retriever. :p He moved in this year. Has had his dog bouncing around in the lobby out in the open. So the rules are a grey area in my building. I'd need to talk to my building manager to make sure she'll bend the rules for me too.

On the other hand I don't want to be the heel that made her make that dog owner have to get rid of their dog. Even if they would never find out it was me who said something.

We also have a "no working/fighting dog rule". Yet I saw some one walk his PitBull towards my building's east entrance. :) The guy was clean cut. Don't know if he still lives in my building.
 
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