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There are no "non-Sibe" issues listed, in my prior post.

...
They didn't say exactly, just said everything but that I'd take to mean everything recommended for the breed, rather than everything under the sun.
...
All the conditions i listed are known to occur in the breed, per the AVAR list of heritable disorders -
please see the page at the link i posted, above. // I didn't get anywhere near "everything under the sun"
that all dogs can carry, & that their progeny can suffer from. :) I stuck to known Sibe issues.

I wasn't aware that CERF had closed; however, here's an alternative -
Veterinarians & Public

Am College of Vet Opthalmologists eye-registry. // Yer welcome. :thumbsup:

- terry

 

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Discussion Starter #22
@SpicyBullDog thank you! My dogs are not AKC and when I say everything I mean everything there would be no reason for me not too. I'm more then capable of taking care of a litter of puppies. I have spare money in a saving account I have one for my huskies and one for my horses and if any emergency were to happen I have a vet on call already in place. The puppies will be farm raised which means they will be very socialized and start potty trained before I give them to my family that will keep them. I also will give them the exact same treatment I give all of my other huskies they get shots wormer and everything right on time. Terry I understand your concerns along with everyone else's it was an accident a normal day at my home where my huskies live together with nothing out of the ordinary then BAM it happens. I've never had to separate males and females out before. I do one on one training with them but that's different I just take them to another room until their work is done. I also do group training to make them work better in a team. The reason why I think my family and I have always left them all together is because sled dogs will fight to figure out their place in line. My Beta maliki is my lead dog she is the most focused if I where to separate them every time they would fight every year and I'm pretty certain that is reason. I was wrong for it and I understand I read everything you said I get I understand the dog forum was made for people who love dogs and get very concerned very quickly I got it. :):)
 

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Correction!

Correction:
the new "Eye Certification Registry" (ECR) is, QUOTE,
"... a joint effort between the OFA & the American College of Veterinary Ophthalmologists (ACVO), & has the full endorsement of the ACVO & their member Diplomates."

I thot it was ACVO alone; one good change in policy, to whit, QUOTE,
"Fees -
Fees for both initial submissions ($12) and resubmits ($8) of passing results for eye certifications will remain the same with one change.
In order to maximize the benefits to breeders, it is important to encourage owners to share all exam data, both normal & non-passing
results. To that end, there is no charge to owners to submit non-passing results to the database, if they authorize open disclosure.

Online Access -
All normal/passing eye exam results submitted to the OFA will be available on the OFA’s website.
Non-passing results will be available on the OFA website if the owner authorizes disclosure.

AKC -
OFA eye certification numbers will be shared with the AKC for inclusion on registration & pedigree documents
if the dog was permanently identified via microchip or tattoo, AND the ID was verified by the ophthalmologist,
at the time of the exam.

Statistical Data Collection -
Regardless of whether the owner opts to register eye exam results with the OFA, the examining ophthalmologist will submit the results
for statistical purposes to monitor disease prevalence and progression at the breed level.

Working with the ACVO Genetics Committee, the OFA will make aggregate statistics available to ACVO Diplomates, breed clubs,
& the public."

______________________________


One of the things i've always appreciated in Penn-HIP's policies is that every dog, no matter what the results, enters the breed database. OFA has always allowed owners to discard bad news, as listing it or reporting it was always optional. // They are slowly changing that policy; I look forward to the day when it's an open registry.
:thumbsup:

Genetics is too important to allow information to be hidden; the CKCS who was the most-popular sire in Britain for several years was a known carrier of the cranial problem that prevents a dog's brain from reaching normal size.
It's a painful, crippling, horrible process - he sired many pups who died of it. :headshake:

Coining money while creating pups with known issues is not merely 'unethical' - it's criminal, in the worst sense. :(

- terry

 

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Discussion Starter #25
Oh yes I actually forgot. She is pregnant :) I will be having puppies :) I'm thinking four because they only mated once :)
 

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fertility is more complicated than that

... I'm thinking four [pups in this litter], because they only mated once.
:)
Umm.
How many times she's bred on a given heat, assuming the M who mates her has a normal sperm-count, normal motility, his sperm don't have two heads or split tails, or other abnormal structure...
it's not "# of matings", but "# of available eggs which are fertilized, & implant in the uterine wall to begin growing an amniotic sac".

Any eggs that are not fertilized, don't develop; any fertilized eggs that fail to implant, don't develop.
She could be slip-mated [brief intromission, no tie] & have a dozen pups, or be mated 3 times in 3 days, & have zero pups.

Causes for 'zero pups after a normal mating during her fertile window' vary - hormonal fluctuations, uterine infections, __ ??? ______.
Resorption is more common in cats, but is possible in dogs - so is failure to maintain the pregnancy [eggs are fertilized, they implant... then various things go wrong, & pregnancy doesn't progress.]

An average Sibe-litter is a low of 4 to a high of 8; only a vet with an ultrasound can tell U fairly-accurately how many to expect, or on the 31st day post-mating, an X-ray to count skulls.
If U want to know how many to expect, i'd say consult Ur vet, rather than guesstimate.

- terry

 

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Discussion Starter #27
Actually to be fair I have witnessed enough huskies having births I'm also close friends with two breeders of huskies that own an USDA license. Winter was only breed once and it normal takes up to about four five times of being breed for them to have more then four or five also the sperm from a male stays in a dog's system for seven days. From my experiences and what I have gathered it takes about four or five times for a husky being breed to have more then four or five puppies. Mine was only mated once only four eggs would have dropped with in that seven days of time and it was also toward the need of her heat cycle. So I would really like for this be heart warming for everyone :) I am going to say about four puppies :):). But if she has more I will be more then willing to tell everyone :):)
 

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I'm guessing you have started her on prenatal care since she is pregnant? And with her being a new mom she will probably need all the help she can get.
 

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Discussion Starter #29
Well she is already on a high quality puppy food and she gets vitimans. She was on the dog food but being pregnant it's best to feed them the puppy version :) She isn't pulling anymore and she goes on nice long walks daily it's about 3miles then she goes and rest with some food and about an 30minites to an hour later she gets her water until she is done drinking. :)
 

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only a vet with an ultrasound can tell U fairly-accurately how many to expect, or on the 31st day post-mating, an X-ray to count skulls
Fetal skeletons usually aren't able to be visualized by x ray until at least 42-45 days post ovulation. My understanding is that it is the best way to estimate number of pups, as pups can be missed or visualized more than once via ultrasound- the radiologist specialist that does ultrasounds where I work will only ultrasound to confirm pregnancy, not to get a count. Vets will often ultrasound around 30 days, or can palpate for pups around that time as well to confirm pregnancy. It's interesting that your vet was able to confirm the pregnancy only 17 days after the breeding took place.
 

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Discussion Starter #31
The nipple get bigger and they start loosing hair around them and appetite change is a big one. I know that huskies this is a big change with the nipples and the hair loose around them. Usually a husky you can't feel their nipples unless you really try. You can't just pet them and find them when they are not pregnant. :):) I was able to tell she was pregnant by that so I knew my vet would. :) I just took her to the vet to confirm it I already knew. I've been around pregnant huskies enough to know because there really isn't anything else that can tell you early on. They really don't gain much weight they act the same. The only two things that really change are their appetite and nipples with hair loss. You could get them ultrasound and x-rayed but there isn't any need to if you can tell it by those two things :):) By appetite instead of going without eating every one or two day they won't eat a lot and it takes them three days to eat one bowl of food at their portion amount :) I hope that helped :)
 

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for best results, F dogs are mated after ovulation...

... it [normally] takes up to about four [or] five [matings] for [a bitch] to have more then four or five [pups] - also, the sperm from a male stays [viable? in the bitch] for seven days.

From my experiences and what I've gathered, it takes... four or five [matings] for a [F] husky to have more [than] four or five pups.

Mine was only mated once -- only four eggs would have dropped within that seven days... [plus, the mating] was toward the [end?, presumably - not "need"] of her heat cycle.
...
Where - besides "my parent's Sibes / my own litters" - did U find the information that dogs only "shed 4 eggs per week"?
And, in Ur own dogs, how would U know that? - short of an internal camera [within a flexible guided cannula] to examine her ovaries, there's no method i know of, to -See- how many ripened eggs a bitch has, at any one time.
They also aren't shed in fixed batches, nor in even numbers, so i'm not sure why she'd only have "4 in a week". :confused:

F cats do not become fertile until AFTER they are mated - they are "induced ovulators", b/c the stimulation of the M's penile hooks cause ovulation - the hooks deploy only as he withdraws, scrape the tender vaginal walls, et voila', eggs leave the ovaries. // That's why a queen can be bred anytime during her receptive cycle - no eggs are wasted by being ovulated without sperm present to fertilize them, & a queen could theoretically have a litter in which every kitten is only a half-sibling, because every kit's sire was a different M.

Humans & dogs, like most other mammals, ovulate whether or not there's any sexual activity. Virgin dogs & humans all ovulate; so, for that matter, do chickens, & many F cage-birds kept solo as pets will lay infertile eggs.

Dogs can also produce multi-sire litters, but because a F dog's window of fertility is narrow, usually no more than 2 or at most 3 sires can be used in one litter; DNA profiles are used to tag which pup has which sire. This is one way to increase the progeny from an exceptional bitch.

Reproductive - Springfield Veterinary Center
Reproductive - Springfield Veterinary Center :: Springfield Veterinary Center
Semen from a natural 'tie' or side-by-side AI (EDIT: with fresh sperm immediately after ejaculation) may live on average up to 7 days, ... timing the procedure to allow for egg and sperm to meet while still alive. ... most literature will give you a range of day 58 -72 post-breeding for whelp date.


CANINE BREEDING AND REPRODUCTION
CANINE BREEDING AND REPRODUCTION - Chinaroad Lowchens of Australia
Sperm cells reach the eggs in the oviducts of the bitch within 30 seconds of ejaculation, & have a viable life span of up to seven days. Fertilization (union of sperm & egg) takes place in the distal portion of the oviducts, & occurs a few days after mating.



This is a 4-page article written for vets, on the critical importance of TIMING in mating of dogs -
Breeding management 102 — It's all in the timing (Proceedings)

the 4th page has a table that summarizes all the findings - hormones, tests, timing of events, etc:
Breeding management 102 — It's all in the timing (Proceedings)

Note that they recommend just 2 matings, on the 2nd day & 4th day, respectively, post-ovulation.
===========================

More than 2 matings to the same stud during the 3 to 5 day critical window only reduces his sperm count / ejaculation.
To keep the # of sperm high per milliliter of semen, U must limit the M's chances to ejaculate - otherwise, he produces the same quantity of seminal fluid, but far-fewer sperm will be found in that semen.

per studs & fertility
http://www.caninegeneticreserve.com/documents/articles/Recommendations_for_the_Stud_Dog2.pdf

QUOTE,
"It is... recommended that the male be collected... 2 - 4 days prior to the initial breeding, to clean [any] dead sperm from the male’s ejaculatory tract, & provide a more satisfactory ejaculate."
Also,
"Males should not be collected more often than every other day... If the dog has more than one bitch to breed in a week, the ejaculate should be split, & a minimum breeding-dose sent to each bitch to be bred."
..."If the male is not allowed a day of rest between... collections, semen quality will decrease, & pregnancy-rates will suffer."


re male health, QUOTE,
"Males should be tested for Brucellosis every 6 months if being used for natural breeding, & once yearly if being used in strict AI programs. If they are being used less than every 6 months, they should have Brucellosis screening either yearly, or prior to each planned breeding.
They should have prostate exams per rectum twice yearly, & have a comprehensive physical examination including complete blood count, serum chemistry, & thyroid screening, yearly.
Other vaccinations should be determined following discussion with your regular veterinarian.
Dogs should be dewormed at least twice yearly, & specific deworming programs should be tailored to the individual dog’s needs & the kennel situation."


==============================


out of curiosity, I looked for a study on litter sizes across breeds.

This retrospective study analyzed "10,810 litters [born of parents] registered in 224 breeds [with] the Norwegian Kennel Club, [whelped during] 2006 & 2007".
http://web2.nkk.no/filestore/Artikler_om_helse/Litter-size-at-birth-in-purebred-dogs-Borge-et-al2.pdf

The single-largest factor in litter size was the dam's own size / weight, with a linear progression in litter size & dam's body size; the 2nd most-influential factor was the age of the dam.
... 88 Siberian litters were included; mean average, 5.4 pups; range, from 1 pup to a high of 14.

for suggestions to maximize litter size -
https://pethelpful.com/dogs/Dog-Litter-Size-Determination

"multiple matings of 4 to 5 per estrus" is nowhere on the list; instead, the bitch's age & health, the sire's age & health, her nutrition, any prior breeding history [milk production, previous litter size, nurturing / mothering skills] are all listed, plus the bog-standard 2 days post-ovulation mating is recommended -
scheduling & hormones, not how many times she's tied, is regarded as significant.

INBREEDING has a terrible effect on fertility, both in individual dogs of either sex, & in breeds as a whole. :(
Berners [Bernese Mt Dogs] in the 1980s were so inbred that litter size had shrunk to 2 or 3 live births per breeding; pathetic, in a giant-breed of over 120#.
The COI [co-efficient of inbreeding, a measure of relatedness] should be calculated for any prospective dam / sire combo before any actual discussion of fees, dates, etc, as if they're too closely related, there is no point in mating them.
COI is extremely important in ethical breeding - a high COI means that particular mating will literally prune the genetic diversity of that litter, & thus, it would shrink the gene pool of that breed. // In some breeds today, with thousands of registered dogs in that breed, there is an effective breeding popn of just hundreds; supposedly-unrelated dogs can, in fact, be as closely-related in these breeds as littermates. :eek:

https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2390636/
QUOTE,
"We find extremely inbred dogs in each breed except the greyhound, & estimate an inbreeding effective population size between 40 & 80 for all but 2 breeds.
For all but 3 breeds, >90% of unique genetic variants are lost over 6 generations, indicating a dramatic effect of breeding patterns on genetic diversity."


purebred dogs in the UK:
https://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/for-vets-and-researchers/kc-research-publications-and-health-data/breed-population-analyses/

genetic analysis of breeds & diversity in the UK:
Genetic status of purebred dogs in the UK - The Institute of Canine Biology


specific to Sibes, the shrinkage of effective breeding-popn in the UK, 1980 - 2010:
https://www.thekennelclub.org.uk/media/686504/siberian_husky.pdf

UK Sibes suffered a genetic-bottleneck in the 1980s / '90s, but the use of imported sires / foreign-AI has improved diversity slightly, in the 20-years since. Unfortunately, an increasing trend to choose & use matador sires has once again, begun to shrink gene diversity in the breed.

- terry

 

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Discussion Starter #33
I am so happy you found an article to shove down my face. It's called experience of more then just my parents dogs. I also have two friends who are USDA licensed and where I live huskies are a hot thing almost everyone down here where I live have one. And all the breeding stuff I already know. When you give a husky litter how about you let me know okay. Then we can talk I told you I wanted it to be a happy thing not a knowledge match. In fact I helped give a husky litter about three weeks they had mated three times and only had five puppies this isn't stuff you can read you have to experience.Now unless you want to be happy about it then get on here if all you want to do Terry is shove articles down my face and tell me in wrong about stuff I know I'm right about I don't want to hear it. Thank you!! :) Have a great day!! :):)
 

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breeding is a big topic, & a serious undertaking, too.

@Markie -
I'm not "shoving an article down your face" - also, i'm sure there are other readers looking at this thread, who are *not* breeders of multiple litters,
who are obviously interested in the topic - or they would not be reading this thread. :) They can use the information, too.

Breeding Huskies is not different from breeding a litter of other breeds, except for small details.
Ex, U won't need to hold the stud in place on the bitch's back b/c otherwise he'll fall-off - as happens in Engl Bulldogs, Pugs, & other short-legged, round-barreled breeds.
Husky Fs come into heat with the same pattern of hormones, attract Ms B4 they're ready to stand for mating, flag & stand to be mounted, go out of estrus & tell the Ms off, etc, just like any other breed of dog.

There's no advantage to be gained by mating a F on a single estrus "4 or 5 times" to the same male.
He won't have as many fertile, mature sperm in that 3rd, 4th, & 5th ejaculate, so if the timing is off on the 1st 2 matings [they are both a little early, she hasn't ovulated yet], the lower numbers of sperm in matings 3, 4, & 5 mean fewer pups.
That's just general breeding - nothing to do with "Huskies in particular", just "any dog breed or mix".

I'm sorry that i upset U, but other readers might be planning a litter -
& ESPECIALLY if that's a breed with low fertility [inbred] or small litters [Engl Bulldog, Papillon, Chi...], it could be crucial that they know 2 matings per estrus with the same male, carefully & accurately timed to the 2nd day & 4th day after ovulation, offer the best chance of catching as many eggs as possible.

There are Board-certified specialists in fertility who help breeders - before, during pregnancy, during whelping, & when a due-date comes & goes without pups, as here at Univ of Penna's vet college.
Penn Vet | Reproduction

given that U should never breed a dam back-to-back, U must wait after an unsuccessful litter at least a year - so getting it right the 1st time is important for many reasons, financial, timing, the availability of that special sire [most bitch owners do not breed to their own stud, they have to arrange a mating with the prospective sire thru the owner], & so on.


Ur litter is an unplanned mating of 2 intact dogs in the same household.

Planned litters are usually the F owned by the breeder, & that owner looks for a M in that breed who has all the right stuff -
- screened for heritable issues, with documents to attest it
[current k9-opthalmologist certificate re eyes, hips & knees graded, etc]
- M is of good type for the breed, negative Brucellosis test, healthy & good temp
- any faults in the F will be reduced or eliminated in their pups, as *this* M has good-to-excellent traits anywhere the prospective dam has flaws
- their combined traits should result in a litter that's BETTER than either parent.


Just "keeping the breed alive" by producing mediocre dogs isn't the goal in breeding a litter - it's improvement: healthier, more functional, longer lifespan or longer functionality [joints, work life...], better type than in the parents without becoming exaggerated, correcting exaggerations already-present ...
getting rid of stenotic nares in brachy-breeds is a very honorable long-term goal in many breeds.

Breeding isn't a casual endeavor, & it shouldn't be. Planning a litter is a big deal. :) Many breeders spend years getting the bitch they've dreamed of, then finding the male that will compliment her best traits & counterbalance her faults.
A planned litter is a way to give back to dogs, who give us so much, & provide for their future as a breed.

- terry

 

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Discussion Starter #35
I understand that but it kind of seems like you are trying to tell me things like I haven't all ready experience this. I get your trying to help people I want to help them to but not treating them like they are doing it all wrong or don't know what they are doing. I will take your first part as an apology :) Maybe I took the wrong way. :) Terry you going to celebrate the upcoming litter?? :)
 

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This thread has run its course. We are closing it,
if you have any questions, don't hesitate to post in the Talk to The Team Section.

As a reminder please don't forget that it is difficult to read tone through posts. Keep your posts as friendly and civil as you can.

Thanks!

 
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