[Fish]

Hello! A couple months ago I rescued a Jindo mix (we adopted her through an organization that had saved her from a Korean meat farm). We think she’s mixed with a spitz, because even though she has the face of a jindo, she is very small. Smaller than our Alaskan Klee Kai. She is our first rescue but our third dog total

Her name is Yuki and she’s about 7-8 months now. Before we settled on adopting her, we did intense research on Jindos so we know how problematic they can be— but the thing is, Yuki is NOTHING like what Jindos are ‘supposed’ to be. We expected a quiet dog that liked alone time. No big deal; we’ve had a Shiba Inu before (he passed at 15 in 2014) so we’ve dealt with that type of dog. We just wanted to get our current dog- a six year old Alaskan Klee Kai a friend.

what we got though, is a dog that barks is insistently whoever my dad so much as moves and is an absolute cuddle bug and lovey dovey angel with me and my sisters.

so we’ve had her for a couple months, and her behavior towards my dad hasn’t improved as much as we’d like. We think her abusers in Korea were bald- because my dad (white) is and he gets the worst treatment. She’s perfectly fine with my siblings boyfriend (Filipino) as a comparison We’ve tried all sorts of online solutions. Having her in a room with him while he ignores her: she claws at the door trembling. We’ve tried tossing treats closer and closer to him while he ignores her and we’ve had mixed results. Sometimes she eats treats right by his feet before high tailing it and other times she refuses to get any closer after a certain point even if it means not getting the treat. He walks her regularly; and she’s mostly fine with walking. Tail up trotting forward, but sometimes she gets very paranoid and looks back at him every 5 seconds and walks with her tail tucked and when he tries to pet her she runs as far as her leash will let her and trembles. She’s eaten treats directly from his hands but some days she’s too scared to get that close.

the barking gets worse in the evenings. When we’re all hanging out in the living room eating dinner or watching TV, she barks at my dad every time she remembers he’s there. We’ve tried reaching her ‘Quiet’ which still isn’t perfect. We’ve tried holding her and letting my dad pet her while we feed her treats. We’ve tried what the jindo trainers (required jindo training session where several new jindo owners brought their dogs) suggested, having my dad hold her until her heart rate calms down and that seems to work for a little bit but not long. One of the other jindo owners said that their son fixed the dogs problem with him by entering a room slowly, backwards, with his palm out behind him but I doubt I could convince my dad to do that.

she’s finally started entering rooms he’s in; but stays as far as possible and only if me or my sisters are also in the room.

she’s similarly scared of crowds which we’ve been trying to expose her to at least once a day without much progress.

and in the car she drools like no tomorrow- to the point where we always take her bed for her to lay in because towels aren’t enough.

But the number one concern here is to at least get her to ignore my dad or tolerate him. And eventually love him as much as she loves us.

 

[Shadowfox]

Good on you for rescuing her. But, you need to slow it way, way down.

Holding her and making her interact with him, and exposing her to crowds every day, is flooding and backfiring. It is also trigger-stacking and stress-stacking, which is making it even harder for her to acclimate and learn.

What Does Flooding Have To Do With Aggression In Dogs?

Dog Decoder - learn to read your dog's body language.

www.dogdecoder.com

The tossing treat and ignoring method was probably best. And the reason it didn't seem to work was she was rushed too fast and pushed too close with the door closed. Think months, not days or weeks, and maybe never crowds for her to settle. And part of the reason why it's worse in the evenings is all that stress has built up while all that willpower she's been using is pretty much empty by then. She has also missed a critical socialization window (bald men missed maybe) and is coming into adolescence and a fear period is around the corner. So, you have your work cut out for you, but she has a ton of potential.

For the car, a ginger biscuit and this protocol can help. Along with helping other things in life.

What is Desensitization and Counter-Conditioning in Dog Training?

A user-friendly guide to desensitization and counter-conditioning for fearful dogs.

www.companionanimalpsychology.com

 

[Curls]

The barking is a sign of anxiety. She is scared, so she's talking tough hoping she can intimidate him into retreating. I agree with Shadowfox. Take it much more slowly. Don't force the dog to interact with your dad. Let the dog choose the distance. Let the dog leave the room if she barks, or put a visual barrier between her and your dad.

I imagine this is very unsatisfying for your dad. It might help him if you remind him about what happens when people take babies to sit on Santa's lap at the shopping mall. Santa is great, right? Everyone likes Santa. Well, except there are always a few babies that are terrified by this big guy with a booming voice and a long beard. No matter how much Santa says Ho Ho Ho, those babies will just sit there screaming. You have the puppy equivalent of a baby that just can't handle Santa.

 

[JoanneF]

Some great advice above.

My two pennies worth is to add -

We’ve tried tossing treats closer and closer to him while he ignores her

Your dad can try tossing treats beyond her so she has to go further away from him to get them. That removes the conflicted feeling of wanting the treat but having to approach scary person to get it, whilst reinforcing that your dad is a source of lovely things.

And he should never position himself between her and her safe space or exit route.

Definitely don't force her to be held by him.

 

[Madra Anamchara]

Just joining in to say i agree with all of the above. It's imperative that you not rush this dog, and let her come to feel safe with your father all on her won. this will never happen if she is forced into contact with him.

Two months is a very, very short time for anyone who is traumatized. Think of it as the dog having PTSD. To get over this takes a lot of time and patience, and it will likely be many months more before the dog will be able to feel safe around your father. It is also possible that she will be somewhat wary of him to some degree for her whole life, so please understand that this could happen and get comfortable with that idea in case it turns out that way. Not saying it will! But just that it could.

It's not for us to decide how or who a dog should be, it's for us to understand who the dog is, just like with people.

Right now, love the dog just the way she is. As she changes, love that too. but don't be ambitious for her or expect things of her. Instead, let her come out of her shell in her own way.

 

[Fish]

Thank you everyone. I’ve been arguing with my dad about her needing extra time. When we first got her we were even told “it may be a couple months before she feels comfortable even approaching you” and it only took a couple weeks for her to be completely enamored with us- liking to always be in the same room and will literally snuggle with us for hours without moving. She was 6 months when we got her. Ive probably been getting impatient because every time she barks at him he goes through the same ‘woe is me; she’ll never like me yadayadayada’ speech and completely ignores the small progress she’s made. My dad is a narcissist- always turning himself into the victim and doesn’t believe in therapy. So it’s been like talking to a brick wall when trying to get him to try things and if it doesn’t work the first time then he’s adamant it won’t ever work.

My mom and sisters are pretty over him too, and honestly, he may not be in the picture for that much longer. But still, it’s important to know good exposure therapy for future use.

And the crowds have finally died down now that thanksgiving is over; so I’ll be able to much more effectively avoid them now as to not overwhelm her when walking her.

we only did the closed door once and have never actually done that again because of how terrible it went. We’ve been mostly tossing the treats around him and he’s tossed some treats around when she’s too scared to approach him.

she is making progress! She’s started playing a little big with Ellie when he’s in the same room. I just wish my dad was a bit more open minded…. But I just need to keep my patience and keep reminding me and him to give her time.

 

[JoanneF]

It might help to keep a diary. Sometimes progress is so slow and in such tiny steps that it's only when you look back a month or two that you see just how far she has progressed.

 

[Shadowfox]

Focus on the things she does right, like walking nicely or not chewing on shoes, and it will help too. And having your own, "She would like you, but not if you rush or scare her" speech ready can help.as well. And she looks like a love btw.

 

[Fish]

not an update but Yuki is just too cute

 

[Fish]

Hey guys! 4 month update! we’re celebrating Yuki’s birthday on the 28th and this is the sixth month we’ve had her!

She’s had a small growth spurt! So while she’s still a smidge smaller than Ellie, it’s not by that much. She’s gained some weight and you can no longer see her ribs ❤. She’s really come into her own; loves other dogs, she loves loves playing with Ellie, and it’s very nice being absolutely pummeled by two dogs when you walk through the door coming back home!

Her and Ellie’s relationship has improved; they don’t get into nearly the same amount of fights but sometimes it still happens, they get separated pretty quick with only very minor injures like thin scratches that we clean and they heal nicely. In fact I think I’ve actually been injured the most while trying to separate them (got a bad bite on my hand from Yuki while pulling her away and while it hurt like a mother, everyone’s all good now! Never seen such fear enter a dogs eye before and it made me sad to see Yuki completely shut down. But that accidental bite marked a turning point And the fights became significantly less brutal and much farther apart). For the most part though, the two spend hours every day wrestling playfully and it’s quite adorable to watch. The fights are mostly caused by Ellie’s slowly building annoyance that just kinda bursts out after awhile. Yuki has a lot of puppy energy and sometimes Ellie just needs a break, ya know? And Yuki, after spending 6 months with her, we can tell she isn’t exactly the brightest bulb in the box (love you, Yuki, I swear). Kinda like a toddler who keeps trying to touch fire without learning her lesson (she doesn’t give Ellie proper breaks during play and keeps pressing when Ellie tries to back away). But again, we’re working on it slowly but surely! She responds to “No” and “Quiet” pretty well; and I think Ellie appreciates that second command because Yuki is a chatterbox.

Yuki is doing much better with baths. Still whimpers in them but she lets it happen and doesn’t try to jump out anymore. Ellie doesn’t let her do it alone either; she either finds a way to open the bathroom door so she can sit just outside the shower or if he put some weight in front of the door to prevent Ellie from opening it, Ellie refuses to leave the door until Yuki comes Out. And it’s quite cute, Yuki assumes we hate the shower too, so whenever we take our own personal showers, she camps out in front of the door till she can see we’re okay.

Drooling in the car is also much better! We discovered she mostly only drools when my dad is driving (he’s a rough driver and even I feel queasy after awhile) and when we make frequent errand stops. So we always take towels with us but it’s getting used less and less.

Shy’s away from strangers still, but it more willing to slowly approach them as long as they don’t acknowledge her.

And that leaves the last big problem… my dad. That… both has and has not gotten better. My dad is handling it very badly, not going through the proper motions consistently so Yuki isn’t as stressed (because “your methods aren’t working” no duh they aren’t gonna immediately work the first time you try it). I think she’s less scared of our neighbor across the street that she is of my dad. But saying that, she now freely enters his room and will even jump in the bed with him if another one of us is also there. I’ve been told she even gave him a good morning kiss today. She typically keeps her distance but pretty much ignores him during the day unless he walks into my bedroom which is where she sleeps at night. At night, she still reverts. Especially when my dad enters the living room in the evening. Not sure what it is about the living room other than that’s where we all gather after work. She always eventuality calms down and then curls up on the couch to nap. So she feels comfortable enough in his presence to sleep? And she eats well from his hand. I’m so tired of arguing with my dad to stop insulting Yuki’s intelligence especially with such a glowering tone which just makes the problems worse. I’ve never seen someone so ignorant of trauma and lasting effects.Trying to work on it but my dads blatant lack cooperation throws most of our efforts out the window.

all in all though, VAST improvement! And I’m very happy she came into our lives 🥰 I think my favorite thing is that whenever she gets cold in the snow or nervous, she likes to be under my sweatshirt pressed up against my tummy.And she pokes her head out the neck hole to look around or tucks it inside like a little turtle.

 

[Shadowfox]

Such great progress to hear!

You're doing great; the living room thing might be because 1)it's super exciting & she's getting tired (toddler indeed!), 2) it's more open/different than the other rooms in the house, 3) all the above or neither?

Sorry about your dad. Those types can be super frustrating. But, love hearing how Yuki is doing!

 

[Fish]

Such great progress to hear!

You're doing great; the living room thing might be because 1)it's super exciting & she's getting tired (toddler indeed!), 2) it's more open/different than the other rooms in the house, 3) all the above or neither?

Sorry about your dad. Those types can be super frustrating. But, love hearing how Yuki is doing!

The living room is very open. The living room, dining room, and kitchen take up the entire floor and there’s no walls separating them. The the living room is like three steps below the dining room and kitchen, and there’s a decorative fence between the dining room and lower living room. The top of the couch lines up with it and the bars are wide enough that Yuki and Ellie both can and do slip between them. The one of the walls in the living room is basically entirely a sliding glass door so there’s lots and lots of light constantly spilling in. The only divider between the dining room and the kitchen is a waist level counter. So no walls to break it up or doors to close. Is the open space more stressful despite the fact there’s a lot more space to escape if need be?

And yes, I would consider the living room to be an exciting place. Once everyone is home we make dinner and all eat on the couch watching tv (the dinner table to basically just there for decoration. Doesn’t even have enough chairs for all of us. It acts as a desk of sorts when work needs done but we still want to hang with the fam/watch TV). So there’s the excitement of the food being eaten there and just where people spend their days off work.

Yuki and Ellie spend the majority of their time in the living room playing for hours and use my room as a napping place if they want a bit of quiet.

 

[Shadowfox]

Is the open space more stressful despite the fact there’s a lot more space to escape if need be?

For some dogs, it's not so much the open space, but rather that there is no place to hide under/behind after the "escape." For some that live/have lived in very small spaces, like mill dogs, large open spaces can be overwhelming.
Or, it could just be your dad's presence getting her nervous until she reads him and relaxes. Or none of the above. Dogs read things differently than humans