[Aurora]

I post rarely. I mostly just read. But I have been incredibly bothered as the inaccurate information regarding vaccines and pest preventatives on this forum grows. Shouldn't this be regulated or something? It's not safe or productive to post so many things that aren't true and that may affect people's choices with their dogs.

First, Dogs Naturally Magazine is inaccurate and is a bunch of fear mongering. Even the title is biased. When I learned how to do research papers in middle school, the first thing I was taught is to avoid biased sources. This is a biased source.
Article discussing the scientific inaccuracies of DNM:
https://dogbehaviorscience.wordpress.com/2013/11/03/pox-on-dogs-naturally-magazine/

As for the dangers of vaccines: There aren't that many. You know what the real danger is? Not vaccinating. I urge you to look at the stats in India, where their feral dog population is out of control. 18,000-20,000 people die every year of rabies from the feral dogs. Have you ever seen a video of a dog with rabies? Or a human for that matter? Heartbreaking. If I didn't think I would get in trouble, I would post one. Why is the rabies vaccine demonized so hard by some people on this forum? Rabies is probably the worst disease you could get. The EXTREMELY rare (if they even exist) reactions that a few dogs have to these vaccines are SO much better than actually getting the disease. I have seen too many things on this forum that are just not true regarding vaccination. This forum claims to be science based.

Now, I know no one said that no one should ever get vaccines. But I think people need to stop promoting that vaccines are dangerous on a public forum. It's irresponsible. Vaccines are not dangerous. There is no science supporting that they are. They are the best thing that has happened to dog ownership and keep our dogs happy and healthy, not dying of rabies or parvo or distemper.

Should we over vaccinate? Probably not. Is it the worst thing ever? No. I've seen some truly inaccurate information on this forum over the past while, and I can only hold my tongue for so long. I would love to point out some instances of things I seriously do not agree with, but I don't want to seem like I am attacking anyone, because that is not my purpose. My purpose is to hopefully start a discussion on inaccurate information found on the Internet, and NOT recommending such information to people.

Also, just for the record, Natural does not equal "good" and man-made does not equal "bad".

Sources:
Rabies Vaccines & Aggression in Dogs-Pure Pseudoscientific Fear Mongering | The SkeptVet
Antibody Titer Testing as a Guide for Vaccination in Dogs and Cats | The SkeptVet
Routine Vaccinations for Dogs & Cats: Trying to Make Evidence-based Decisions | The SkeptVet
“One and Done” Approach to Rabies Vaccination is Misguided and Dangerous | The SkeptVet

Other sources to come.

 

[kmes]

Honestly I think you've seen post from just a few with perhaps more extreme views...
The majority of people here do vaccinate. May have differing views on when/how often but ultimately do support core puppy vaccinations and rabies according to law.

If you see someone advising members not to provide core vaccinations and rabies then please report it so us mods can take a look and if needed take action.
Posted via Mobile Device

 

[Aurora]

You're right, I may have. I admit to not paying much attention to who posts what when I see the posts. I just see them a lot. I never meant to imply that the majority of people are not vaccinating, but just that I don't think inaccurate info should be posted in the first place. Fear mongering has become such a problem in "the age of information".

People come here to get information, and trust that the information is correct. This why I think it's so important that information posted here be correct and science-based.

 

[ColliesRock]

Personally, I do vaccinate my pets. Vaccines are generally safe and safer than most things in modern veterinary medicine, IMO. In the end, it's for each and every owner to decide what's best for their dog. I'm sure someone that's against vaccinating their dogs could counter everything you've posted. I'm not saying it's true here but I do think people will state opinions as fact or science at times. Live and let live, I guess.

 

[Gnostic Dog]

World Small Animal Veterinary Association Vaccination Guidelines

http://www.wsava.org/sites/default/files/VaccinationGuidelines2010.pdf

 

[Gnostic Dog]

WSAVA puppy vaccination guidelines

http://www.wsava.org/sites/default/...ccination Guidelines Updated July 29 2013.pdf

 

[ColliesRock]

I will say I personally do think that all dog should at least get Parvo and rabies vaccinations. Not only can a dog get Parvo but they could also give it to other dogs and other people's dogs.

 

[Laco]

As is everything in medicine, it always boils down to risk vs benefit. I, personally am not willing to take the risk of not vaccinating our dog. As is the case with anything that goes into the body, ours, or our pets, including the things we eat and drink, there is always the possibility of some sort of reaction. For those of us that can interpret what we read about vaccines, its clear that the risk of reaction from vaccines is very slight, the risk of contracting diseases such as parvo or rabies and the results are so horrible and deadly, it becomes a no brainer. On the human side, can you imagine the human toll if smallpox and polio were still around.

 

[crazy]

ive noticed it too. It did get to me a few times. does anyone know the rules about vaccinating senior dogs who are nearly 11 years?

ETA i thought dogs naturally magazine wasnt false and believed in it but then on a group on facebook raw feeding chat heard it isnt trustworthy and since re assesed and beleive its not right esp as i saw a video posted by mercola about raw feeding and vets and didnt like the way it sounded pressuried to feed raw( what about those who cant feed raw)?

 

[Gnostic Dog]

does anyone know the rules about vaccinating senior dogs who are nearly 11 years?

There are no "rules". Remember vaccines are only for healthy animals. If the 11-year-old is healthy, and that means, no allergies, intolerances, auto-immune issues, lumps and bumps etc, then maybe, but given the guidelines below, but why not titre instead?

From the link above:

2. Vaccines should not be given needlessly. Core vaccines are those that are required by every dog in order to protect them from life-threatening infectious diseases that remain prevalent throughout the world. Core vaccines should not be given any more frequently than every three years after the 12 month booster injection following the puppy/kitten series, because the duration of immunity (DOI) is known to be many years and may be up to the lifetime of the pet.

6. The WSAVA supports the use of titre testing. This is where a small sample of blood is taken from the dog and checked for the presence of circulating antibodies. The presence of circulating antibodies indicates that the dog is immune, and revaccination (with core vaccines) is not required. You may decide to titre test before giving the 12 month booster, as this may show that boosting is unnecessary. New in-practice titre-testing kits are now available which will allow your veterinarian to do a titre test very quickly, without sending the blood sample to a laboratory.

7. It is important to give as few vaccines as possible, whilst also ensuring that dogs are protected from life-threatening viral and bacterial diseases. The WSAVA seeks to reduce the number of vaccines given as there is always a risk of adverse reactions with any vaccination. The risk of adverse reaction is considered small and the WSAVA asserts that the benefit of protecting your pet from life-threatening infections far outweighs the risk of adverse reaction – although any reaction to a vaccine that is not needed is unacceptable. The WSAVA has listed the types of reactions in its vaccine guidelines (which you can see on the link given above). They range from mild (such as fever, loss of appetite), through to severe (such as epilepsy, arthritis, autoimmune haemolytic anaemia, and allergic reactions). The most severe adverse effects can be life-threatening.

How many vet's follow these guidelines?

 

[Rain]

ive noticed it too. It did get to me a few times. does anyone know the rules about vaccinating senior dogs who are nearly 11 years?

ETA i thought dogs naturally magazine wasnt false and believed in it but then on a group on facebook raw feeding chat heard it isnt trustworthy and since re assesed and beleive its not right esp as i saw a video posted by mercola about raw feeding and vets and didnt like the way it sounded pressuried to feed raw( what about those who cant feed raw)?

I think with senior dogs it depends on how active the dog is. For example, at 11 years old both Jersey and Shadow were still very active, still going on long walks and more then up to playing with other dogs, so I still vaccinated them. When Shadow was 16 my vet told me that I could skip vaccinating him since he was so inactive and only went for short walks on the property I lived on, he never came into contact with other dogs. The only reason I opted to vaccinate him at that age was because it was necessary because I had to board him. You could always check tithers levels and see which vaccines, if any he needs.

I've seen some good articles in Dog's Naturally, and I've seen some off the wall ones that I'd never follow.

 

[Aurora]

I don't have time to make a real reply until tomorrow, but I would like to point out the article on tigers I posted. Titers are good, but is not perfect. Please read. I will make a real post tomorrow.

 

[crazy]

charlie mostly goes up the hill but in summer parents try walk him longer but he slowed down so much so unsure might ask dr mike

 

[Rain]

I don't have time to make a real reply until tomorrow, but I would like to point out the article on tigers I posted. Titers are good, but is not perfect. Please read. I will make a real post tomorrow.

I've read articles on them in the past when I was considering getting them for my dog and doing research before doing so. I know that they are not perfect, but if my dog acts any worse then he currently does after being vaccinated I'll be using them.

Sadly nothing is perfect. I've had flea preventatives fail, I've had heartworm preventatives fail. I've read articles that show that there's a new type of parvo that is not covered by the standard vaccine, so that vaccine is no longer perfect.

 

[Aurora]

Oh, I certainly agree. Nothing is perfect. Vaccines aren't perfect and neither are titers. I only meant that titers are not the magical solution to the problem. And that is what the article states. They are a guideline.

 

[Gnostic Dog]

Vaccines aren't perfect and neither are titers. I only meant that titers are not the magical solution to the problem. And that is what the article states. They are a guideline.

Correct, neither vaccines and titres are perfect. Therein lies the issue, vaccination/= immunization. They are not one and the same thing. Immunity is fundamentally a natural phenomenon, being the greatly reduced susceptibility to infection following exposure to a potential pathogen. The result being a FULL body immune response. Vaccines don't immunize, they can't duplicate that process because they only engage one part of the immune system, the humoral immune response (antibodies). Vaccines bypass the natural processes which are designed to engage the whole immune system. All that science has to test efficacy, and that is what the whole vaccination program is based on, is serum antibody production (titres), which is only the end result of the immune process. There is no way to measure innate immunity (cell-mediated). You can have cell-mediated immunity without any antibodies, in the same vein, you can have high antibody levels and still contract the disease.

 

[Grabby]

@Aurora, thanks for posting. The fear mongering about vaccines drives me nuts. I follow the three year protocol except for Lepto which has gotten to be a problem in our area in the last few years.

Herd immunity. It's real. It saves lives.

 

[sassafras]

Dogs Naturally, the late-night phone in psychics of the dog world.

 

[ColliesRock]

I'm just "meh" about the whole advocating against vaccines. If someone wants to advise against them or state their opinion, that's their choice. If not on DF, they'll be doing it elsewhere on the net. I have lurked on some groups on the net which are against vaccines for my own amusement at times. lol

 

[crazy]

@Gnostic Dog im unsure if where i am they do them! will have to ask dr mike and even if they do no doubt it will be the cost of a fecal sent off to teh lab $160 when the vaccines are 139 dollars. Will ask him today, Charlie isnt that active struggling with his arthirtis and his walks but does come into contact occasionaly with other dogs and other then arthirtis and fatty lumps and loss of muscle mass he is healthy