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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
I swear, the training advice I hear come out of peoples mouths makes me want to scream/cry...

I took Kiwi, Emma, and Chili to the dog park yesterday...we usually go to the far end away from people but they are renovating and it was blocked off...so I was always in earshot of people, which I usually avoid...for exactly this reason.

This woman first comes to me and points at Kiwi and ask if shes my dog... then asks if she didn't like her dog (a huge huge lab) because Kiwi "bit her dog on the eye"

They had accidently bonked heads (hard) while playing and I told her Kiwi loved her dog and they were IMO playing rather well...

she proceeds to bring her dog over and point at his eyeball...I see nothing. I shrug and tell her I don't see anything....she laughs (wierdly) and then walks away, she didn't seem angry.

anyway...so she then starts telling people how well trained her dogs are because she watches ALL the ceaser shows:rolleyes: she then starts to call her dog, which ignores her...over and over and over and over...she finally grabs him and jams a treat in his face and starts barking commands at him....

he keeps trying to disengage and run away (even with a treat in his face!) and everytime he does she grabs him, says no, and barks more commands at him using the treat as bait.

I've seen similar stupidity before and usually just laugh shake my head, but this went on for close to AN HOUR on and off...she then proceeded to go over to a woman with a GSD pup and tell her that petsmart is the best place to get a dog trained and as long as you watch ceaser you are basically a dog trainer...she then proceeded to give really harmful advice to this woman for about twenty minutes....

then the circus music played again...the whole "sitsitsitsit...no!....sitsitsit..come here....begbegbeg...NO! Come here! sit sit sit" began all over again.

So I walked over to her and said nicely, "i can show you a better way to do that if you want, use are using the food incorrectly"

she smiles and did the wierd laugh again and simply said "im showing everyone his tricks! hes knows alot of tricks!" and then went back to what she was doing.

At this point I hear two other women talking about clickertraining...and how you are supposed to...and I quote...

wave the food in the dogs face...then you point at the ground, give the dog a treat, then click, they know this means sit.

ARRRRRRGGGG!!!!!!!

I looked at her and said nicely "thats not the correct way, I can teach you if you'd like" and she gave me a hard stare and then turned around and ignored me.. WTH?



ow ow ow ow ow it hurts. Stupidity should hurt...but they need to stop hurting ME with it.



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LOL I Feel you!!

I explain clicker training (I'm no pro, but I've taken classes and seminars in behavior/training/clicking etc) and they always seem to think the 'click' the command!! LOL "But how do they know the click means lay down'? :p

Luckily we have a dog park close by that most of the dogs are well behaved and the owners aren't too weird :p


...doesn't watching the dog whisperer make you a qualified behaviorist? Dang-I thought it did ROTFL
 

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Discussion Starter #3
LOL I Feel you!!

I explain clicker training (I'm no pro, but I've taken classes and seminars in behavior/training/clicking etc) and they always seem to think the 'click' the command!! LOL "But how do they know the click means lay down'? :p

Luckily we have a dog park close by that most of the dogs are well behaved and the owners aren't too weird :p

...doesn't watching the dog whisperer make you a qualified behaviorist? Dang-I thought it did ROTFL

YES! They do...I don't get how that makes any sence to anyone....the thing I usually see that bugs me is "clickclickclickclick" and then no reward!!

Click=reward its seriously not that hard of a concept.

There are youtube videos of ZOOS doing it wrong. One was with a gharial and one with tigers....im screaming at the screen...your professionals??? Your making yourselves look like fools!!!



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That intern with the tiger is terrible!!

I should see if I can find my video's-I clicker train my rabbits-all can beg (Except my blind deaf one-he gets to do whatever he wants) and Rupert can go through a hoop, target and spin :) It actually works if you know what your doing!
 

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Discussion Starter #6
That intern with the tiger is terrible!!

I should see if I can find my video's-I clicker train my rabbits-all can beg (Except my blind deaf one-he gets to do whatever he wants) and Rupert can go through a hoop, target and spin :) It actually works if you know what your doing!

awesome!!


yeah, the tiger one makes my skin crawl.



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Honestly some people!
Clicker training isn't as easy as some people make it out to be. For some reason it has become popular and certainly it beats the "old school" methods. I don't think it's something that your average dog owner can learn off the internet though. What's bad I find is if someone knows a little bit about dog training and can throw the buzz words around, that is sometimes enough to snow someone who doesn't know anything.
 

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Discussion Starter #8 (Edited)
Honestly some people!
Clicker training isn't as easy as some people make it out to be. For some reason it has become popular and certainly it beats the "old school" methods. I don't think it's something that your average dog owner can learn off the internet though. What's bad I find is if someone knows a little bit about dog training and can throw the buzz words around, that is sometimes enough to snow someone who doesn't know anything.

Its also not a hard concept either. I don't think the average person can't grasp that a click= a reward. To me its easier than learning about corrections, how and when and how intense to do them...yet people all the time use corrections.

I don't care that people don't understand it...its that they THINK they do and then start to "teach" it to other people, who in turn fail at it and then tell everyone they know that clicker training doesn't work. Most people I meet swear that clickertraining doesn't work because they "tried it" and failed.


I learned it all from internet and reading. Most people do...as there are not many clicker classes available yet. There are gobs of how-to videos for people who need the visual aid.

I simply offered my help as what they were doing was obviously *not* working, not to show off, but because the dog was becoming increasing distressed, i felt I should offer help....and I was looked at like a wierdo, I did not use big words or terms they would not understand.



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sorry to any ceasar fans, but i am starting to think that his show is the bane of my existence, i see people doing things like this all of the time and constantly quoting ceasar as if that makes them behaviorists! i have a hard time w hearing other people too. sometimes i don't even ask for permission, but just jump in and show them how to do something or i ask clover to. even when they see him doing what i ask and are impressed they still act sceptical about advice i give, sometimes angry at me for disproving them......i'm trying to train myself to keep my trap shut when i hear this, but you are right, its hard when you see them doing damage.



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Discussion Starter #11 (Edited)
sorry to any ceasar fans, but i am starting to think that his show is the bane of my existence, i see people doing things like this all of the time and constantly quoting ceasar as if that makes them behaviorists! i have a hard time w hearing other people too. sometimes i don't even ask for permission, but just jump in and show them how to do something or i ask clover to. even when they see him doing what i ask and are impressed they still act sceptical about advice i give, sometimes angry at me for disproving them......i'm trying to train myself to keep my trap shut when i hear this, but you are right, its hard when you see them doing damage.

I like Ceaser. Would I use many of his methods...no... he is not the end all of knowledge and there is more than one way to skin a cat...

Ceaser is no longer mostly a aversive trainer (i think hes woken up alot... his new shows are MUCH better usually) but yes, I don't understand the "i watch his show and I trained ONE dog (poorly I might add) so now I know everything" mentality I see constantly.

I have had people say clickertraining doesn't work and then I have Emma come to me, sit, down and stay (for example) all on single cues in the middle of a distracting enviroment...then I imform them that she was clickertrained...and people STILL insist it doesn't work...

to me the proof is in the persons OWN experience...like I said before, if they try it once, and fail, they tend to tell everyone it doesn't work and believe their experience is the correct one. Thats why I get so deeply bothered when I see people telling som'one else how to do it wrong, because it affects me.

I must add that not everyone has not believed me, I have met som' really nice people who were very open to the concept. In fact I have one of my coworkers training his dog on a regular basis now with marker training. Hes thrillled with the fast, real, results.

anyway my point is its not brain surgery, and personally I research everything I give, try on, or do to, my dog, because I feel as their owner its my responsibility to be informed. ;)



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I'm a ceasar fan too-But I don't think his methods work when other people just try them. He spends so much time showing people on his show and in the follow up you can see they *still* don't get it!

I think he's got a great way with dogs-but I don't think many people can pull it off!

I do think one thing he's done that's wonderful-Showing that it's not the dog-it's the owner (ALWAYS!!) and also all his work showing the pitt's aren't sharks!!
 

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basic clicker training isn't difficult to grasp imo, timing can be tuff, but even with bad timing a dog can figure a lot of stuff out.
That was what I meant - the concept of marking a wanted behavior using the clicker is simple to understand, but the timing can be off. Although I think there are also plenty of people who don't understand the basic concept and who think the clicker has magical properties. The same thing goes for some of the aversive training tools like e-collars; people think they are magic gadgets that will give instant results.

My opinion is that if you think logically, and can be patient and consistent, you can probably get what you need to know off the internet to train a dog to be a good companion (assuming there are no serious issues like resource guarding or fear aggression etc.) However that does not describe most people or even most dog owners.
 

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did somebody catch a bird? I can only assume its dead LOL

Anywho I had one person whose 3 dogs were fighting with other dogs and said they were just playing..um the blood on my dogs face from your latching on is not playing. I finally asked them politely to please remove their dogs from the park before I call the cops lol.

I love how you still approached her LOL I would never have the nerve to even offer help to someone because once they said "I know what I am doing" I would have been like "yea not really lady you suck" and then there would have been a fight lol.

People try and tell me how to train my dogs all the time... I think I am set thanks
 

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Discussion Starter #16
did somebody catch a bird? I can only assume its dead LOL

Anywho I had one person whose 3 dogs were fighting with other dogs and said they were just playing..um the blood on my dogs face from your latching on is not playing. I finally asked them politely to please remove their dogs from the park before I call the cops lol.

I love how you still approached her LOL I would never have the nerve to even offer help to someone because once they said "I know what I am doing" I would have been like "yea not really lady you suck" and then there would have been a fight lol.

People try and tell me how to train my dogs all the time... I think I am set thanks

Chili found a dead bird...it was hilarious, he walked around with it proudly.

Kiwi and this dog were very obviously happy-as-if-they-had-good-sence, playing with each other...they had "chemistry" and seemed to really like each other...I think the owner was just a few crayons shy of a box.

I've been in lots of verbal fights with people, not over training, but over aggressive dogs. I have learned to just leave, and hadn't had an altercation for a LONG time until this girls dog grabbed me and was humping me and I could NOT get him off of me, I had to choke the dog out TWICE and it still came back for more.....its a long story....but this is that girl who claimed to be 'trainer" and said clicker training "makes dogs bite childrens hands" :rolleyes: shes was a winner too.

I had made a decision to not get angry, but to be helpful, which didn't work either... oh well. :) Thats probably why I hang out here so much. :)



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