[yoshiposhi]

Not sure if this goes here or in the "Dog food" section.

My puppy is 5 months (APBT/Am Staff mix). A couple of weeks ago I started her on raw but I went with fresh frozen patties (meat only, no fruits/veggies). The owner of the store recommended pork since chicken can sometimes be too rich. She was doing really well, formed small stools, no odor, no flatulrnce. But I wanted something for her to chew on so he sold me one of those big raw meaty knuckle bones. I let her chew on it for too long I think, and also I had soaked one of her rope toys in chicken broth (and froze it). It was unsalted but not fat free. The next day she had horrible diarrhea all afternoon. I think it was too much fat at once.

The vet suggested rice, boiled chicken and pumpkin for a few days. I also added some probiotic enzyme powder to her meals and within a couple of days her poop was back to normal so I slowly went back to raw. This time I decided to buy whole chickens instead of the patties (cuz the patties contain organs and I wanted to start off slower).

I have been feeding her skinless chicken breast, skinless leg quarters, backs and the occasional chicken foot. At first she was doing ok. Soft but formed, a little shiny but no globs of mucus. Last night she had good poop, only slightly soft but well formed. Today it was either soft or diarrhea. She had a drumstick this morning and a bit of chicken breast, lunch was a leg quarter.

She also has terrible stinky farts.

No visible blood in her stools.

Energy levels normal and always has an appetite.

I'm worried with all this diarrhea and lack of nutrition in her diet from boiled chicken and rice it's affecting her growth because she's so young. I don't know what to do. I'm so tempted to go back to her kibble ugh.

What am I doing wrong??

Please advise! Thanks!

 

[Chas]

Has your vet run a fecal analysis? That would be my first step.

I'm not a raw feeder but it would make sense to me that the more processing meat undergoes the greater the risk of infectious agents being introduced. Other than that gut micro flora is incredibly important and your pup may not have the flora to cope with a raw diet yet so it might take a while for things to even out.

Hope she has a speedy recovery!

 

[Shandula]

@naturalfeddogs

Maybe she's intolerant/allergic to chicken?

 

[naturalfeddogs]

Not sure if this goes here or in the "Dog food" section.

My puppy is 5 months (APBT/Am Staff mix). A couple of weeks ago I started her on raw but I went with fresh frozen patties (meat only, no fruits/veggies). The owner of the store recommended pork since chicken can sometimes be too rich. She was doing really well, formed small stools, no odor, no flatulrnce. But I wanted something for her to chew on so he sold me one of those big raw meaty knuckle bones. I let her chew on it for too long I think, and also I had soaked one of her rope toys in chicken broth (and froze it). It was unsalted but not fat free. The next day she had horrible diarrhea all afternoon. I think it was too much fat at once.

The vet suggested rice, boiled chicken and pumpkin for a few days. I also added some probiotic enzyme powder to her meals and within a couple of days her poop was back to normal so I slowly went back to raw. This time I decided to buy whole chickens instead of the patties (cuz the patties contain organs and I wanted to start off slower).

I have been feeding her skinless chicken breast, skinless leg quarters, backs and the occasional chicken foot. At first she was doing ok. Soft but formed, a little shiny but no globs of mucus. Last night she had good poop, only slightly soft but well formed. Today it was either soft or diarrhea. She had a drumstick this morning and a bit of chicken breast, lunch was a leg quarter.

She also has terrible stinky farts.

No visible blood in her stools.

Energy levels normal and always has an appetite.

I'm worried with all this diarrhea and lack of nutrition in her diet from boiled chicken and rice it's affecting her growth because she's so young. I don't know what to do. I'm so tempted to go back to her kibble ugh.

What am I doing wrong??

Please advise! Thanks!

A lot happenend in the beginning which probably caused issues right off the bat, like beginning with pork, a knuckle to chew, rice and boiled chicken, feeding patties etc....Back up, and slow down a bit.

Start back at the beginning. Chicken is the easiest protein to digest which is why it is used first (Not rich at all, as the store owner told you). Be sure the chicken is as low sodium as you can find, and start with quarters. Remove skin/fat for the first few days. Feed quarters only for the first week at least. As poops are looking good slowly add the skin/fat back on. If after about a week and a half, all is going well, move on to the next protein which is turkey. In the meantime, don't feed anything else but bone in chicken. No other bones, no treats nothing. Less is more in the beginning.

 

[yoshiposhi]

Thanks @Chas! If it doesn't get better in the next couple of days I will do the fecal analysis. At the time when I saw the vet, the sample I gave her was already formed normal poop so she said to skip the analysis for now and see what happens when she goes back to raw.
@naturalfeddogs when I fed her the quarters she would get yellow formed but soft stool with a thin shiny layer of mucus. Is that normal in the beginning?

Update: I skipped her dinner last night and this morning she had brown firm poop. Yay! Not sure how that happened since all day she had yellowish soft stool and diarrhea.

 

[naturalfeddogs]

Thanks @Chas! If it doesn't get better in the next couple of days I will do the fecal analysis. At the time when I saw the vet, the sample I gave her was already formed normal poop so she said to skip the analysis for now and see what happens when she goes back to raw.
@naturalfeddogs when I fed her the quarters she would get yellow formed but soft stool with a thin shiny layer of mucus. Is that normal in the beginning?

Update: I skipped her dinner last night and this morning she had brown firm poop. Yay! Not sure how that happened since all day she had yellowish soft stool and diarrhea.

The yellow color is normal from chicken, sometimes it will just take that color. And the sliminess is normal as well in the beginning. That should go away as she adjusts, which it sounds like she is doing. Just watch to be sure the poops stay formed, not runny. If it stays just a little on the softer side with quarters, you can also give her drumsticks as well to up the bone a little. That is assuming she chews drumsticks and doesn't try to gulp them.

 

[DriveDog]

What are the percentages of meat, bone and organ in the raw you are feeding your dog?

Soft stools from raw is generally too little bone or too much fat or organ.

 

[Rain]

Here's an article that has a section on starting puppies on a raw diet http://rawfeddogs.org/rawguide.html

 

[yoshiposhi]

@naturalfeddogs she's good with the quarters (thigh and drumstick), she actually chews it. I can hear her gag/choke and then regurgitate then chew again lol

She had soft stools at noon and then clumpy diarrhea in the afternoon. All I fed her today were chicken backs.
@DriveDog no organs at the moment, all the chicken parts I feed have no skin. Right now she's only getting backs and quarters. I stopped the chicken breast. I'm assuming the wings are too fatty cuz of the skin? Cuz it has high bone content I thought it would be good to feed but I'm concerned about the skin/fat.

Thanks @Rain, I've actually read that article and started with a bit of breast meat and some chicken back/ribs and she got runny poop. Can't figure out why she's having so much trouble...so I figure give more meaty bones like the backs and some drumsticks and her poop is inconsistent. Some times it's formed...sometimes it's runny.

 

[yoshiposhi]

Update: I fed her a quarter and a chicken back at 4pm and she got lumpy watery poop (I wasn't home when it happened, she went inside the apartment) and then at 730pm she has squirty diarrhea (this time she let me know and ran to the door to go out). She's usually able to hold it until I can let her out. I'm at a loss right now....I think I'm just going to need to do a fecal analysis the next time she poops.

She's been really cuddly all day today, poor girl I just want her to feel better. She's drinking water at least and there's never been any vomiting.

 

[Rain]

Update: I fed her a quarter and a chicken back at 4pm and she got lumpy watery poop (I wasn't home when it happened, she went inside the apartment) and then at 730pm she has squirty diarrhea (this time she let me know and ran to the door to go out). She's usually able to hold it until I can let her out. I'm at a loss right now....I think I'm just going to need to do a fecal analysis the next time she poops.

She's been really cuddly all day today, poor girl I just want her to feel better. She's drinking water at least and there's never been any vomiting.

I'd feed a different protein for 3 to 7 days and see if she improves, maybe try turkey or pork (just remove most of the fat), she could be sensitive to chicken. If she improves on the new meat keep her on it a few weeks before trying a small piece of chicken to try and determine if that's what's causing the diarrhea.

 

[yoshiposhi]

I'd feed a different protein for 3 to 7 days and see if she improves, maybe try turkey or pork (just remove most of the fat), she could be sensitive to chicken. If she improves on the new meat keep her on it a few weeks before trying a small piece of chicken to try and determine if that's what's causing the diarrhea.

I have frozen turkey necks in the freezer. A whole one would probably be too much? Maybe just half at first? She's currently 21 lbs.

 

[naturalfeddogs]

@naturalfeddogs she's good with the quarters (thigh and drumstick), she actually chews it. I can hear her gag/choke and then regurgitate then chew again lol

She had soft stools at noon and then clumpy diarrhea in the afternoon. All I fed her today were chicken backs.
@DriveDog no organs at the moment, all the chicken parts I feed have no skin. Right now she's only getting backs and quarters. I stopped the chicken breast. I'm assuming the wings are too fatty cuz of the skin? Cuz it has high bone content I thought it would be good to feed but I'm concerned about the skin/fat.

Thanks @Rain, I've actually read that article and started with a bit of breast meat and some chicken back/ribs and she got runny poop. Can't figure out why she's having so much trouble...so I figure give more meaty bones like the backs and some drumsticks and her poop is inconsistent. Some times it's formed...sometimes it's runny.

Just FYI (and you may already know this), the gagging you are hearing isn't the same as choking. It's a natural reflex with a name, I just can't remember it right off. It's normal, and it's intended to be able to re chew something too big to swallow. Sort of a dogs "safety feature" so to speak!

 

[yoshiposhi]

Update: so she's still getting diarrhea on the turkey I really don't know what to do st this point. I read that going back to rice and boiled chicken is just as bad as going back to kibble.

Mia is losing too much weight, her ribs are starting to show through a bit now. Would it be really terrible to put her back on kibble until she gains back her weight (maybe like 3-4 weeks) and then start on raw again?

I'm going away for 10 days in mid June so I would probably re-start the raw when I got back.

 

[naturalfeddogs]

Losing some weight is normal in the beginning, until you begin red meats. Those are fattier and the weight will be put back on.

What cut of turkey are you feeding? And how much? Over feeding can cause the runny poops, as well as being enhanced with sodium solutions. What brand are you feeding? Anything from Tyson, for example is usually high in sodium.

This site has a getting started guide, with info on poop issues as well, and ideas on how to fix common problems. Sort of a "is this normal"? type of stuff. Just some FYI. http://preymodelraw.com

 

[yoshiposhi]

@naturalfeddogs
I gave her half of a turkey neck, I figured it had a lot of bone so it would be a good start. Even with her kibble she was sensitive to big portions so I have always watched her portions.

The turkey neck was just from the local supermarket. Not sure what brand it was.

I was reading this:
Problems with Raw Feeding - Raw Chat - PMR Articles - articles - Prey Model Raw which was really informative and helpful...and reading about the diarrhea I tried feeding her just chicken backs for a day with maybe a small drumstick (no skin) and poor girl still had the runs. I was still adding plant based probiotics as well. That website is also where I read that feeding rice and boiled chicken was just as bad as going back to kibble so I'm really confused and lost at what to do next.

I don't feel comfortable fasting her for 24 hours because shes so young.

And when she skips a meal (like dinner for example) her poops in the morning are formed and pretty solid. Go figure. But any poops prior to that in the day were all runny, no (visible) blood.

 

[naturalfeddogs]

How long have you stuck with each protein? And are you staying with ONLY the one protein at a time?

 

[yoshiposhi]

@naturalfeddogs
yes, only one protein at a time. I've stopped with those fresh frozen pork patties. it was only that one week (6 days) when I first started the raw diet even though she actually did well on them. Small solid poops. Then got diarrhea from that (beef) raw meaty bone.

Vet said to do the boiled chicken with white rice for a few days, her poop cleared up so then I started with the chicken legs and backs. Poop was soft and formed for a bit and then back to diarrhea. I tried the chicken for about 4-5 days. The first couple of days were okay and then it just got progressively worse.

I skipped her dinner meal (so her last meal was at noon) and the next morning (around 630am) her poop was solid so I gave her half a turkey neck. Noon, gave her the second half. In the afternoon, during our walk, she had diarrhea.

Went back on the boiled chicken with white rice, her poop is back to normal now. I want to try again, but not sure how to approach it. Cold turkey (no pun intended lol)? Can you feed white rice/cooked chicken with raw meat? Should I skip her dinner again and give her a bit of raw Saturday morning? I'm thinking of trying turkey again. She's been fine with cooked chicken but I feel like maybe she's allergic to raw chicken if that's possible?

I'm not going to give up on her raw diet! I don't want to go back to kibble dammit! lol Just seeing how she's mellowed out, no more puppy crazy spurts has been so great. She doesn't get those spikes in energy now that she's stopped eating kibble.

 

[Basil1985]

Hi,

Have some experience on this subject, but I'm going to add a link on myths of raw food diets.
Home remedy that works well is a spoon of yogurt mixed in with what raw meat, bone, organs your feeding.
Increases natural enzymes in the stomach.

Basil

http://rawfed.com/myths/changed.html

 

[naturalfeddogs]

@naturalfeddogs
yes, only one protein at a time. I've stopped with those fresh frozen pork patties. it was only that one week (6 days) when I first started the raw diet even though she actually did well on them. Small solid poops. Then got diarrhea from that (beef) raw meaty bone.

Vet said to do the boiled chicken with white rice for a few days, her poop cleared up so then I started with the chicken legs and backs. Poop was soft and formed for a bit and then back to diarrhea. I tried the chicken for about 4-5 days. The first couple of days were okay and then it just got progressively worse.

I skipped her dinner meal (so her last meal was at noon) and the next morning (around 630am) her poop was solid so I gave her half a turkey neck. Noon, gave her the second half. In the afternoon, during our walk, she had diarrhea.

Went back on the boiled chicken with white rice, her poop is back to normal now. I want to try again, but not sure how to approach it. Cold turkey (no pun intended lol)? Can you feed white rice/cooked chicken with raw meat? Should I skip her dinner again and give her a bit of raw Saturday morning? I'm thinking of trying turkey again. She's been fine with cooked chicken but I feel like maybe she's allergic to raw chicken if that's possible?

I'm not going to give up on her raw diet! I don't want to go back to kibble dammit! lol Just seeing how she's mellowed out, no more puppy crazy spurts has been so great. She doesn't get those spikes in energy now that she's stopped eating kibble.

As far as the chicken goes, it could be that it's enhanced, and she's super sensative to it. I think you said somewhere that you are also removing the skin to as well, correct? I would get off the chicken and turkey for now, skip one meal, and try pork ribs. FYI, Tyson brand pork is loaded with sodium, so don't use that kind. Give pork a good week and a half and just see. I'm not sure it's so much the protein, as something that's added to the protein being fed. Does that make sense? It may come down to looking for brands that are enhancement free.

If the pork doesn't work yet either, it may mean going back to turkey, but to a brand with nothing in it at all.

Also, be sure you aren't feeding too much at once either. That also can cause the symptoms you are describing. Feed less at the beginning, and slowly increase once things are better.