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Discussion Starter #1 (Edited)
Hello all,

I have a question that directly relates to an experience I had this weekend.
I met a lady in the park that just got her French bulldog 2 days ago from a family that didn't want her anymore. Supposedly, the dog is a 7 month old female.
We talked about how the house training is going and general things. She then asked me if I had my dog fixed (Bri is a rescue and they don't adopt unfixed dogs out, so yes). She said that it's a shame, and that she is holding off on the spaying since in the house across from her lives a male frenchie and she is thinking about approaching the owner for mating these two.
I tried to explain to her that it doesn't really make sense, since she doesn't know where her dog comes from, what kind of genetics are involved (she didn't get any papers, and I'm quiet sure she doesn't know about the male genetics either) and if she really would want to go along with it, she needs to have extensive (and expensive) health testing done on both, the female and the male side.
I don't know if I overwhelmed her with my answer (I tried to not be too offensive in my voice and tone, but it's hard to judge objectively if I managed to do so). In my head the wheels were just spinning in high gear, with hearing she only had the dog for 2 days and she's already thinking about breeding her.

She stated she had dogs when she was a kid, but this is her first own dog.

How would you have approached the situation? She told me that she wants to come to the park more often and I am there a lot anyways, so if the topic comes up again, I'd like to be somewhat more sympathetic, but still brining the points and info across, if you understand what I mean?
I don't want to scare her off or maybe thinking these "crazy rescue people are against breeding in general anyways" (if it's not too late for that).

Thanks in advance! And sorry for the lengthy post...
 

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I have simply told people in the past to go walk through a shelter and look at all the unwanted dogs, most who will be euthanized, and explain that they would be adding to that population. Bringing up euthanasia tends to be the eye opener. Some people just don't get it otherwise.
 

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I think you did great explaining about the necessary health tests. I'm not against breeding at all, but there is a way to do it properly and responsibly.
 

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Discussion Starter #4
@naturalfeddogs : I understand where you're coming from, but I'm not sure it's always the right way to throw that in someone's face right away, since I had the feeling the lady was already shutting down the way I explained it. Just from my impression of her she would have gotten defensive, pretty much stating I would make her responsible for euthanasia of other dogs (even though it is true to some extent, but I'd like to find a more subtle, but effective way to keep them listening).

@Jenibelle Thank you, though I am not sure if that was already too in depth for this person, as said, she just got her first dog two days ago and I'm not sure if she had that much of an idea of what I was talking about. I don't want to sound like a doctor (well, not all, but some :D ) where people afterwards say "I had no idea what he/she was talking about, so I better not worry about it.".

It's hard to explain and to me the arguments against "fun" or BYB make total sense, because I familiarized myself with pros and cons, but I'm trying to find a gentle way to explain this to not so well informed people.
If you look at this forum, when people come around asking about breeding their dogs, lots of times they get the hit right in the face and never ever appear again. My fear is, it's more of a stubbornness ("You guys think you know more, but my dog is the best and I still want to breed him/her") than really understanding and just not replying anymore because they understood it's a bad idea.
 
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Frenchies are easy to explain - and the reason why they cost so much. They can't breed naturally, males are not designed to mount and females have to be artificially inseminated. Females can't deliver naturally, C section it is...
Well that makes it easy. Just tell her that! Don't even get into all the other stuff.
 

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I agree with Jagger that would have been a good point to mention.

I don't think there really is a easy way to explain to people. Even if you tell some one in a non condisending way unless people want to learn or are open to being wrong they may just brush off what you said. I think it depends on the individual person on how you would go about telling them, and if they would be open to learning in the first place.
I think you can go about it in two ways (or combine them), one is think about how a vet or another reputable breeder would explain it to some one. The other is, try to help them feel like its their decision. Try saying "did you know" (in a conversational way), before telling someone some facts about breeding. Try to get them to want to know more on their own. Ask them if they've done any research on breeding or know how much it costs.
Some people you can just tell them the information and that will be it and they will make a informed decision on their own, some you need to guide to what breeding realisticly is, others you have to bring up as more of a conversation, others aren't going to listen to you no matter what you say.
If you have a dog or now some one with a dog from a breeder or from less then reputable places you can tell them about them to show how much breeding costs and how breeding just because can cause medical and or behavioral issues amoung other things. If there open to it, you could also offer to tell them about some breeders or sites they can talk to/visit for more information.
In your case with the French bulldog lady if it comes up again I think what Jagger said about them not being able to breed normally and having c sections is worth mentioning.
 
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Well that makes it easy. Just tell her that! Don't even get into all the other stuff.
This is probably the best response. Keep it as short and simple as possible. :)

This is something I'm hesitant to discuss with strangers. I would probably think about myself in the other person's shoes and I may even find it irritating myself to have a stranger lecture me about any subject really. Too, people can be stubborn and telling people what they shouldn't do or what's not the most responsible can backfire. There are people which will do things only because you told them not to or that it's not a good idea. It's especially true with strangers as I likely don't completely know their personalities.
 

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Mention the sheer cost of breeding french bulldogs if she is going to do it correctly.

Let her know that if she does not want her dog to be artificially inseminated she'll have to use a breeding board, strap her dog to it and help the male mount her, and will have to do that at least 2 x. That's why artificial insemination is most often used with Frenchies. Even with that there a 30% chance the mating will not result in pups.

Is she up to the cost of getting her dog prenatal care to make sure her and the unborn pups are healthy.

Can she pay for a c-section? They are considered necessary with Frenchies. Yes they can deliver naturally, but then the risk to the pups and mother skyrockets, the pups may not pass through the birth canal, a pup may get stuck, the mother may get to exhausted to deliver all the pups in a large litter, or if it's one or two the pups may be too large to be delivered. Can she pay for an emergency c-section if the female goes into labor during a weekend, holiday, or the middle of the night?

Is she able to afford vet care for the mother and pups after delivery?

Is she up for caring for the pups if the mother is unable too?

I'd slowly ask her the questions as you see her not all at once. Sort of like I was reading up on breeding frenchies and found out x, y, or z, did you know that? Did you know that a breeding board or artificial insemination was used with Frenchies? I wonder how much that cost? I read that Frenchies have a very difficult time delivering naturally and c-sections are usually done on them wow that must be expensive.

A website so show her or give her the address of Breeding bulldogs
 
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Treat her like a dog. Be non-aversive, use small steps, and treat her with compliments when she goes in the right direction.

There are people who KNOW to use these steps when they want a behavior from their dog, and KNOW that it works. For some reason, all of this knowledge flies away when they are dealing with a person.
 

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*Warning graphic photo

Hah, good luck getting Frenchies to have sex naturally. With that breed the easiest thing to say is "They're incredibly unhealthy, can barely have sex naturally and the mother and/or puppies will probably die if they're not delivered by c-section." Seriously look at this horrible photo I found from one of the mills that supplies dogs to my state. The puppy there is dead because s/he got stuck in a breech position. Frenchies aren't too great at childbirth.

With people like this usually the best approach is gentle. Explain the health issues, how there are so many dogs in shelters and no matter if their dogs get homes, their puppies probably won't. Oh and the cost, if you tell people something is expensive they're not always into the idea anymore! Just lay facts on them and try to sound as not-angry as possible (That's the part I struggle with!). But unfortunately some people just don't listen. However with this one I sure as hell hope she does because she could kill her dog.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
Thank you so much for all your answers/advise!

I didn't know that about Frenchies, I bet if I tell her this, her plans go out the window.
 

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I agree with using what @jagger said.

TBH though, some people just don't want to hear it. Don't be surprised if she breeds her dog anyway. Hopefully, the neighbor with the male won't want to. Some people just don't have a clue...
 

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I didn't know that about Frenchies, I bet if I tell her this, her plans go out the window.
I would love if this were true. Honestly, people who want to breed their dogs, tend to do so regardless of what you tell them.
 

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It might also be worth mentioning that often, Fenchie mothers tend to need A LOT of help and supervision. I have heard of Frenchies that have accidentally suffocated their own puppies by sitting/laying on them when they were very, very young, or even just after birth.

You might also mention that it is not uncommon for mothers to die during birth or surgery to deliver the puppies. That is always a risk you take when breeding any bitch, but it is more common in certain breeds/types, and bulldogs/Frenchies are one of them.

Like was said above, be non-aversive, take small steps, be sure that you are slipping in plenty of reward for tiny steps in the direction you're hoping for (not breeding), and it doesn't help to layer in compliments on the dog itself/her progress in training to soften your words a little bit. Use tact, and I would try to stay away from "look how many dogs without homes there are that will die", because IME that isn't super effective and can discredit all the rest of the information you say in the person's eyes.

Frenchies are probably the second worst breed to breed irresponsibly, IMO, after English Bulldogs, though the two may be tied in my mind.

As was said before though, if she really wants to breed, she'll breed. Frenchies are something of an "it' dog these days, it seems, so she'll find no shortage of demand and will see that she can sell the puppies- or puppy, since singleton births are very common- for a fair amount, which if you're not doing any health tests and don't have too complicated a birth/inevitable C section, may make her a small profit.
 

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Discussion Starter #18
Thanks so much!
@Aspen726 I know your right, but I had the feeling she wasn't sure about it and that's why she started the topic. ( @Shandula Yes, you're right, if she is dead set on it, she might just do it anyways, but it didn't sound like it ).
@Moonstream Thanks! Yes, that's why I wrote already that I don't think that the euthanasia argument is the right one, since it's more like a slap in the face than trying to persuade to overthink. That's what I want to accomplish. Her starting to think/inform herself, learning that it's not as easy as she thought and not for her.
 
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