[roboboyo]

Hi guys

I'm living over in london uk, and have got a 4 month old jack russell male called rex!!

my first dog was a cross between jack russell and beagle, and he was an amazing dog!!!!! so clever

unfortunately, he developed cancer at the age of 12, and we decided to put him down shortly after, (he was fed commercial dog food, and cooked human leftovers)

10 years on, and rex is upon us

i have started to feed rex, on raw food, from a complete raw food company, and i have a puppy formula!! it came frozen, and i needed to defrost, and serve

at the start, it was hard to get him to eat raw food (designed for puppy) so i started sprinkling parmesan cheese over the raw meal, and now he loves it

my question is, is the parmesan ok to mix with raw meat for my dog???

thanks

 

[Basil1985]

Hi roboboyo,

I think a lot of people are now turning to raw food diets as a view point of being a better diet for dogs, this is a split view and not unanimous.
To satisfy a dogs nutritional needs with a raw food diet is very complex and challenging, not to forget time consuming.
I think this has to be a personal choice for any dog owner as if you get it wrong and your puppy does not get the vital nutrition it needs it can have severe consequences.
Cheese is made from milk which contains lactose. Science tells us canines are lactose intolerant.
If you are sure of this diet for your puppy and have researched thoroughly the requirements needed, good on you.
I would advice against the cheese and try a small spoon of probiotic yogurt which i have used myself and a proven winner. Dogs love it just as much as the cheese and a far safer alternative.

Let me know how the yogurt goes down.

 

[Doppelganger0337]

Hi roboboyo,

I think a lot of people are now turning to raw food diets as a view point of being a better diet for dogs, this is a split view and not unanimous.
To satisfy a dogs nutritional needs with a raw food diet is very complex and challenging, not to forget time consuming.
I think this has to be a personal choice for any dog owner as if you get it wrong and your puppy does not get the vital nutrition it needs it can have severe consequences.
Cheese is made from milk which contains lactose. Science tells us canines are lactose intolerant.
If you are sure of this diet for your puppy and have researched thoroughly the requirements needed, good on you.
I would advice against the cheese and try a small spoon of probiotic yogurt which i have used myself and a proven winner. Dogs love it just as much as the cheese and a far safer alternative.

Let me know how the yogurt goes down.

You are right that the view on raw feeding is not unanimous, but as a raw feeder I disagree that it's difficult to get the nutrients that our dogs need. I raw feed Bandit with the PMR diet and preparing it at home takes about 2 hours a month and he has never been healtheir. Also I believe that OP is getting this from a raw food company, which means they are under the same nutritional guidelines as kibble brands so I wouldn't worry much about that.

I completely agree with you to try yogurt instead of cheese though! I would also try peanut butter (although there is an ingredient called Xylitol that is toxic to dogs so check and make sure your peanut butter is safe) peanut butter is the easiest way for me to get Bandit to eat anything, and I only have to use a small amount. You could also try pumpkin (canned 100% pumpkin, not pie mix) and I've also heard of many dogs that are on a frozen raw diet where things are softer enjoy having things like raw carrots mixed in to give it a bit of crunch.

Of course if none of things work or if you just have a picky pup, I wouldn't fret too much about a small amount of cheese, just be careful with how much you are using.

 

[Basil1985]

You can disagree with yourself regarding it being " Difficult "
I said it was complex and challenging to feed an adequately nutritional diet to a puppy.
Their is an element of ignorance surrounding raw food diets, a lot of people are jumping on this as the new fad and hopefully it wears off soon. !!!
To understand a puppies nutritional diet needs threw to adulthood is very complex, I assure you more than two hours a month is required. You should really research this subject thoroughly or i would suggest a kibble diet.
It might not be difficult to change a puppies diet to raw food if your not factoring in the quickly changing needs of that individual.
As for cheese in general, stay away from it, the cheese you are using is full of wood pulp and highly likely cotton.
I would strongly suggest considering this diet if your pup is already being a picky eater. I said to start this is not a unanimous vote, the argument is favourable to both sides if educating yourself in facts is important.
By the way i have used raw food diets, currently using kibble as its generally less time consuming.
Would be great to hear others views on this.

 

[Doppelganger0337]

You can disagree with yourself regarding it being " Difficult "
I said it was complex and challenging to feed an adequately nutritional diet to a puppy.
Their is an element of ignorance surrounding raw food diets, a lot of people are jumping on this as the new fad and hopefully it wears off soon. !!!
To understand a puppies nutritional diet needs threw to adulthood is very complex, I assure you more than two hours a month is required. You should really research this subject thoroughly or i would suggest a kibble diet.
It might not be difficult to change a puppies diet to raw food if your not factoring in the quickly changing needs of that individual.
As for cheese in general, stay away from it, the cheese you are using is full of wood pulp and highly likely cotton.
I would strongly suggest considering this diet if your pup is already being a picky eater. I said to start this is not a unanimous vote, the argument is favourable to both sides if educating yourself in facts is important.
By the way i have used raw food diets, currently using kibble as its generally less time consuming.
Would be great to hear others views on this.

I'm not sure what you mean by disagreeing with myself.

Two hours a month is the time I need to prepare Bandit's food. Since I am on the PMR diet, most of his food stays intact and all I need to do is individually bag it. The OP is feeding a frozen food from (I assume) a raw food company so I'm sure that it isn't very time consuming either and also has to follow the same nutritional guidelines as any dog food company so even then nutrition-wise it's really not something that needs to be worried about in this case.

I obviously disagree with you on the fact that there is ignorance with raw feeding, as every person I have talked to that raw feeds, myself included, has done hours upon hours of research before we made our decision to switch. And I don't understand why you would call it ignorant when you said that you've tried it yourself and use kibble because its less time-consuming. Raw feeding is also not a fad, and definitely not "new" considering kibble has only been around since the 40's when grain and meat companies had leftover product that they could not legally sell to humans and decided to make a profit off of it.

I'm not sure what kind of cheese you're talking about but I am highly skeptical of tableside parmesan containing wood pulp and cotton and while I agree that cheese isn't great for dogs it isn't going to make a huge difference in the long run.

Anyways I'm sorry to have derailed this but OP I think parmesan is fine however I would try some of the other things suggested like pumpkin, yogurt and peanut butter.

Edit: I wanted to tag some members that would have some helpful advice and are more experienced raw feeders then me. @gnosticdog @annageckos @naturalfeddogs

 

[Basil1985]

Disagreeing that it's difficult was your own comment.

Ignorance by definition is poorly educated. Like Parmesan being fed to dogs as a means of giving a puppy a balanced and complete diet. Really poor advice. Quick check of Parmesan Cotten content and wood filler/pulp will be certainly in most store bought varieties.
My working dogs lived solely on just butchers scraps, diets tailored to individuals needs.
I'm sorry but it is a new fad, grain and meat leftovers in the 40's is all over the Internet, all about carbs.
It fails to mention that these grains are laced with insecticides which cause all kinds of nasties, same with fruit and veggies today which livestock/dogs eat. Unless organic.
This is not viable today, where as butchers scraps in the 40's or 50's was.
Kibble is a much better alternative today as people seek for ways to keep dogs going and on balanced diets.
I too welcome any other conflicting views.

 

[Doppelganger0337]

Like Parmesan being fed to dogs as a means of giving a puppy a balanced and complete diet.

We obviously have very different views which is fine. The only thing I wanted to respond to here is the OP isn't feeding parmesan to balance and complete its diet but instead as a topper to help a picky pup eat his meals.

 

[jagger]

Raw feeding isn't difficult, the OP actually stated that they are purchasing the commercially supplied foods. Whatever your take is on that, to each their own...

I don't understand the negativity surrounding raw feeding of dogs or cats for that matter. If your dog catches and eats a mouse, are you going to call a vet? A friend has a large breed dog, vet figures it's full of allergies so now the dog is eating Purina Pro Plan hydrolyzed. Mmmmmm. Can you imagine living on this? I couldn't. See attached. Corn and soy are bought for what, $100 a ton?


OP, I doubt parmesan is going to cause any issue for your dog, parm is actually lower in lactose than other cheeses. Do you want to get your dog used to adding a treat to the food? That's the big question. I personally wouldn't.

I'm not sold on commercial raw, I still prefer to feed whole foods. Like dopple says, couple of hours a month prep work and you can have a load of foods in the freezer ready to go... And don't forget bone, it's a requirement in the diet, and it's natures toothbrush.

 

[Doppelganger0337]

@jagger Sorry I didn't add you to the list of mentions, I was trying to get back to the post before my edit time expired. Thanks for adding your insight! I honestly had forgotten that parm was low in lactose, I don't eat much cheese.

I also agree with you on not letting the pup get used to a topper for every meal. I think I would use it sparingly and start to wean off of it over time and then only use it in instances that you have to. For example, I used yogurt to get Bandit to start eating raw meals, I didn't use much and basically stopped as soon as he was eating it on his own. However, I frequently switch up my proteins for him and I've learned that there are certain foods he needs a bit of a push with (aka, goat lung and chicken liver) and those I put a thin layer of peanut butter on to coax him on. The problem I find with putting it on every meal is it lowers its perceived value, so when you run into a food that he doesn't prefer, it won't sway your pup to eat.

On a side note, I hope we get to see pictures!

 

[Basil1985]

Your think. ?

Should OP give his 4 month old puppy Parmesan as a top up, to encourage it to eat it's raw food diet.?
What about when OP takes Parmesan out again. ?

This forum is ok for debate and discussion about dogs, in all manner of speaking.
If in doubt though, you should consult a specialist as a responsibility.
Especially where health and feeding issues are at play.

 

[timber]

If you feed a variety of meats, bones, and organs a dog/puppy will be just fine. It's not rocket science, nutrients are all there as long as there is variety. Kibble is full of crap in my opinion and would rather spend time in feeding something without all the processed ingredients than feeding kibble solely for convenience. Not sure where others are from here, but in my area, many farmers use roundup industrial grade to kill all weeds/grass in their fields. It soaks into the ground then they plant corn, soy, etc. Then it gets processed and sold off, which I am pretty certain it's also sold for dog food manufacturing. Then we feed it to our pets. I am guilty too of feeding kibble in the past and while in school due to finances, but have had them back on raw as soon as I could and feel much better about it. I also understand that raised meats are also full of crap in the sense of antibiotics, etc but I feel it is the lesser evil than the processed fillers found in kibble. I also do understand that there are very good brands of kibble that dogs can do very well on, yet the way they are processed gives me doubts when compered to feeding fresh ingredients.

A little bit of parm is not going to kill the pup. Yet, I would recommend you wean him off of it and just use tough love to get him to eat. It's worked here in the past.

 

[Basil1985]

Its not negative thinking, we're not discussions a mouse as a diet for dogs or cats.
It's come about that people are clearly inexperienced and not knowledgable regarding dietary requirements of the pets.
I think it's unrealistic to suggest a trip to supermarket/high st to source ingredients then weigh specific amounts up to ensure balanced diet is obtained, then bag up, freeze, defrost amounts lasting a month can be obtained in a couple of hours.
Ordering raw foods in too is not something i agree with.
I use to feed raw diets to working lines as they thrived on high protein diets and low carbs.
Butchers now have to incinerate scraps and meat scrap quality is not what it was in the 40's or 50's. Back then dogs got the saying fit as a butchers dog.
Now I'm advised and share the opinion that a stable diet of a reputable brand of kibble is best for my canines. They will be healthier and live longer. When science and specialists recommend different I shall follow that advice. I feel i have some insurance then.

 

[Doppelganger0337]

Your think. ?

Should OP give his 4 month old puppy Parmesan as a top up, to encourage it to eat it's raw food diet.?
What about when OP takes Parmesan out again. ?

This forum is ok for debate and discussion about dogs, in all manner of speaking.
If in doubt though, you should consult a specialist as a responsibility.
Especially where health and feeding issues are at play.

Yes. If that is what they need to do to get their puppy to eat their food then it's fine. I do suggest eventually trying to wean it out HOWEVER I really do not see a problem with a small incentive when it is helpful to a better diet.

This is not a dangerous food. This isn't even the style of raw-feeding I use. This is a commercial dog food, set to the same nutritional standards that any kibble you feed your dog is set to that whether or not you believe is the best diet is still just as safe as kibble.

I understand that I take some risks with the diet I feed Bandit. I do a lot of things to minimize that risk, and the health benefits he has received has made me a believer in the PMR diet. But there is no risks in this puppy food that wouldn't be present in any other store-bought food.

Edit: @timber, same as Jagger sorry I didn't add you I was on a time crunch!

 

[timber]

@Basil1985, I think you're overcomplicating things. The OP is feeding a raw diet and I don't remember reading they wanted to switch off of it. The person is just asking if a little bit of parm cheese is ok. If you have some issues with raw feeding, maybe a different you can be started to post your opinions on it instead of derailing the OP's question.

 

[Basil1985]

This is where a matter of personal choice comes into it. Its certainly not cut and shut across the medical field.
Parmesan in any dose is not good for pups. If they are hungry they will eat, you can try safe ingredients to encourage a pup to eat, they don't have to be Parmesan which has lactose, which has Cotten and has wood pulp.
Agree to disagree here.

 

[timber]

My dogs sometimes find big braches in the yard that fall from the willow tree and I sometimes see them playing with them and chewing on them. I will not be so fussy over a little bit of chewed wood.

 

[Doppelganger0337]

I think it's unrealistic to suggest a trip to supermarket/high st to source ingredients then weigh specific amounts up to ensure balanced diet is obtained, then bag up, freeze, defrost amounts lasting a month can be obtained in a couple of hours.

When science and specialists recommend different I shall follow that advice. I feel i have some insurance then.

I'm sorry I wasn't counting my time at the grocery store or the time that the food was defrosting as hands-on time, because I shop for Bandit the same time I shop for me and I defrost in the fridge overnight. If I add in grocery time its still around 4-5 hours a month. Well worth it.

Many specialists are actually recommending raw feeding, and if it wasn't a widely accepted diet you wouldn't see all of the new commercial brands of raw diets in pet stores worldwide.

 

[naturalfeddogs]

You can disagree with yourself regarding it being " Difficult "
I said it was complex and challenging to feed an adequately nutritional diet to a puppy.
Their is an element of ignorance surrounding raw food diets, a lot of people are jumping on this as the new fad and hopefully it wears off soon. !!!
To understand a puppies nutritional diet needs threw to adulthood is very complex, I assure you more than two hours a month is required. You should really research this subject thoroughly or i would suggest a kibble diet.
It might not be difficult to change a puppies diet to raw food if your not factoring in the quickly changing needs of that individual.
As for cheese in general, stay away from it, the cheese you are using is full of wood pulp and highly likely cotton.
I would strongly suggest considering this diet if your pup is already being a picky eater. I said to start this is not a unanimous vote, the argument is favourable to both sides if educating yourself in facts is important.
By the way i have used raw food diets, currently using kibble as its generally less time consuming.
Would be great to hear others views on this.

It's really not "complex" or "challenging" to feed raw. You simply feed, in VARIETY, mostly meat, some bone and some organ. That's all. Those three ingredients provide all the nutrients a dog needs. It's only as "complex" or "challenging" as you want to make it.

Raw feeding puppies is exactly the same, only they need more. As in, three to four times a day.

 

[annageckos]

Feeding a puppy is no different than feeding an adult dog, the only difference is that the puppy will eat more per pound of body weight. Feeding raw is not complicated. I don't buy premade, I do PMR. Chicken, beef, pork, veal, fish, turkey, rabbit, lamb, goat, venison and any other meat I can get. But chicken, pork, beef, turkey and fish are my main meats. You can give a little parm cheese as long as it doesn't upset your pup's stomach. Not all parm cheese contain wood pulp, and IIRC the brands that they found it in was recalled or pulled. It was also only in pregrated parm, so if you are worried about it just buy a chunk of parm and grate it yourself. That is what I do. But I would start to wean off the parm, it isn't doing anything nutritionally for your pup. If you can I'd start to get away from the premade and but and cut your own meat. It's really easy once you get the hang of it and really doesn't take that much time. I probably spend about three or four hours a month to every month and a half. But I'm feeding three dogs, five cats and two ferrets. For one dog I couldn't see it taking more than an hour, maybe two.
As for the nutritional needs, dogs get what they need from meat, bones and organs. It's all my dogs have eaten for nearly 13 years. The only thing I do add is fish oil, for the omega 3 fatty acids.

 

[annageckos]

I think it's unrealistic to suggest a trip to supermarket/high st to source ingredients then weigh specific amounts up to ensure balanced diet is obtained, then bag up, freeze, defrost amounts lasting a month can be obtained in a couple of hours.

Why? I go shopping for the animals when I go shopping for the humans. I shop every two to three weeks (I hate shopping. But I normally fill the freezer once a month) I don't weigh the food, no need. One, I go by body condition and two I can eye it within an ounce most of the time. Cutting, bagging and freezing takes the most time. As for defrosting, it takes seconds to pull the food from the freezer and put it into a bowl to defrost. In the summer I often feed the food frozen, no defrosting needed so I save a whole 30 seconds it would take to pull the food out in the morning.

ETA My vet recommends raw feeding and were very happy to hear I was feeding PMR.