Dog Forum banner

1 - 20 of 24 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter #1
I'm in a very difficult situation, you can browse this forum for the basic idea: So Frustrated... | Avian Avenue Parrot Forum . All of the negative things aside, I am going to try to make my parents use the NILF method.
But I need help, I read articles on the NILF method, and they give one or two examples, but I need more than that so I can apply it to my dog. I need as many examples as possible.

My dog is a pup, a Pitbull named Spector. We adopted him from the Wildlife/Animal Rescue, but were told he was a healthy 3 year old. He turned out to be a pup with pneumonia, and after he was cured we were left with a pup who is very high energy, something we didn't want but are trying as best we can to deal with it. The forum posts I make (Klomonx on there as well) give some more information.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,884 Posts
I'm in a very difficult situation, you can browse this forum for the basic idea: So Frustrated... | Avian Avenue Parrot Forum . All of the negative things aside, I am going to try to make my parents use the NILF method.
But I need help, I read articles on the NILF method, and they give one or two examples, but I need more than that so I can apply it to my dog. I need as many examples as possible.

My dog is a pup, a Pitbull named Spector. We adopted him from the Wildlife/Animal Rescue, but were told he was a healthy 3 year old. He turned out to be a pup with pneumonia, and after he was cured we were left with a pup who is very high energy, something we didn't want but are trying as best we can to deal with it. The forum posts I make (Klomonx on there as well) give some more information.
Honestly, I don't think NILIF is really going to help. It's sort of an outdated concept. You might benefit more from this book and the concepts that it promotes: Plenty in Life Is Free: Reflections on Dogs, Training and Finding Grace: Kathy Sdao: 9781617810640: Amazon.com: Books

Yes. Plenty in life is free. It's similar in a way. But the biggest difference is that it doesn't promote treating your dog like it's in bootcamp and barking commands at it before you let it have anything nice or pleasant. Dogs are emotional creatures, we have to be careful not to neglect their emotional needs. People have seen backlash when they start implementing a NILIF policy with their dog because the dog gets frustrated.

Maybe look into something SMARTx50. That's See Mark And Reward Training. Basically, you count out 50 pieces of kibble or 50 treats, and you use them like "caught being goods" from elementary school. You don't always have to command your dog to have something to reinforce. Look for behavior you like throughout the day. Is he choosing to be calm and sleep on his bed? That's a good behavior! Mark and toss him a treat, and give him some gentle, massaging pets. Did he choose not to chase the cat when it walked by? Mark and reward! If he's greets you gently and appropriately, mark and reward that too! It gets you in the habit of seeing your dogs good behaviors and reinforcing them, rather than just seeing the bad and getting frustrated.

NILIF also will not solve your dogs endless energy. You need to be doing a mix of physical exercise, as well as mental exercise. Look into clicker training and try some brain activities. Teach him object ID. Teach him rear end awareness. Body targetting. Teach a retreive. Teach nosework and scent discrimination.

Finally, food can affect energy level as well. What are you currently feeding him? A food that is super high in carbs can lead to excess energy because a dog's body will convert the carbs into sugar.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,653 Posts
Most of us on DF don't advocate or recommend the more hard core version of NILF.

The hard core version is where a dog has to do some command for every little thing it may want, up to and including going out to potty, being played with, and being pet. It'd sort of be like you having to wash the dishes to use the bathroom, sweep the floor to get on the computer, and do the dishes for a hug.
It's no fun for me to have my dog like that and it's bound to be frustrating for him.

What we do advocate here is setting boundaries, using the dog's daily ration of kibble for training throughout the day, and most of all having fun with the dog. For instance with my dog I take the time to go on walks, and play with him to drain his energy, that way I don't have a hyper dog on my hands, and it's fun for both of us. The walks have lots of opportunity to train him, like sitting at the corners, loose leash walking, and impulse control. My having him sit at corners could be considered NILF since if he wants to continue walking he must sit.

I also have him do a command, usually sit, if I decide to feed him from his bowl, or before I put down his food puzzle toys, that's also sometimes considered NILF but I consider it a training opportunity and good dog manners. Also it's a safety concerns since he can knock the bowl out of my hands and send if flying if he jumps into it

I don't let him door dash, or gate dash, if he wants to go out the gate he has to wait for me to give him the O.K. and if he's really excited I'll make him sit as an extra precaution. Again that can be considered NILF but that's not the reason I do it. I do it as a training opportunity, for safety, and for some impulse control since he will not get to go out unless he sits and or waits.


If you are looking for a way to make him more settled try impulse control exercises. Reward him every time you see him just laying around chilling out. Make sure to provide enough exercise, both mental and physical. For mental try training, feed him out of food puzzles, and nose work. For physical, take him on walks, get him a long 30 to 50 ft training lead and let him run around in a field, play with him, and play with him with a flirt pole.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter #4
@TiggerBounce He gets fed Purina Puppy Chow. I have little to no control over what my parents buy for him.
I'll work on trying to inform parents on what we should be doing, but I'm afraid I can't get both my parents on board with it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,884 Posts
@TiggerBounce He gets fed Purina Puppy Chow. I have little to no control over what my parents buy for him.
I'll work on trying to inform parents on what we should be doing, but I'm afraid I can't get both my parents on board with it.
If it's any help, you can show them this: Purina Puppy Chow | Review and Rating

Purina isn't a great food and that could be affecting his behavior. If they're looking for something affordable, look into Costco's brand name dog food (kirkland signature), Taste of the Wild, or 4Health (Tractor Supply's brand).

Yes, it is a little more expensive. But, these foods do not contain filler ingredients. Purina has lots of corn, which the dog gets nothing but energy from. It literally goes right through him. He has to eat more of that food to get nutrition. One any of the three foods I mentioned, they don't contain fillers like that. He won't eat as much. This means that even though it seems more expensive per bag, it'll end up costing about the same because you won't have to buy as much of it.

Also, I highly recommend you browse through Kikopup's videos and through our stickies for training help:

Training and Behavior Stickies

https://www.youtube.com/user/kikopup
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,418 Posts
I can't really add much to the advice TiggerBounce and Rain gave. I will suggest you take a look at this article: Should You Always Eat Before Your Dog? A key point in the article is,
Everyone’s rules will be different, based on their lifestyle and needs. It doesn’t matter what your house rules are, so long as you have them.
Perhaps you and your parents could talk about what you expect from your dog - for his safety and your sanity, why it's important to be consistent, and how you will go about teaching him manners you desire.

There are several good resources for training. In addition to the ones TiggerBounce mentioned, Ian Dunbar's Dog Star Daily, Karen Pryor's Clicker Training site, and Sophia Yin's site are excellent resources. Plus, they have great books with more detailed information.

If it's possible, I'd look into taking an in-person class. There's a thread in the training and behavior stickies about finding a good trainer - and a good trainer is worth every penny.

Good luck and please keep us updated!
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter #7
@TiggerBounce
I don't have any control over the food... it isn't price, it's convenience. My parents are very 'time is money', and there's no costco's near us. Any food we switch to has to be at our local stores. I don't drive or I'd offer to just go get the food myself. @cookieface
Due to my parent's work schedules, it's impossible for us to get a dog trainer. They are not off at the same times, usually, and the only one who drives is my dad, who works night turn and is only off on Fridays and Saturdays.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,623 Posts
@TiggerBounce
I don't have any control over the food... it isn't price, it's convenience. My parents are very 'time is money', and there's no costco's near us. Any food we switch to has to be at our local stores. I don't drive or I'd offer to just go get the food myself. @cookieface
Due to my parent's work schedules, it's impossible for us to get a dog trainer. They are not off at the same times, usually, and the only one who drives is my dad, who works night turn and is only off on Fridays and Saturdays.
What are your local stores? What do they sell there? A 3 year old dog should, at the very least, not be eating puppy food.

Also, some trainers will come to you--though probably for a higher price. You just have to call around and see if anybody offers it.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,653 Posts
@TiggerBounce
I don't have any control over the food... it isn't price, it's convenience. My parents are very 'time is money', and there's no costco's near us. Any food we switch to has to be at our local stores. I don't drive or I'd offer to just go get the food myself. @cookieface
Due to my parent's work schedules, it's impossible for us to get a dog trainer. They are not off at the same times, usually, and the only one who drives is my dad, who works night turn and is only off on Fridays and Saturdays.

If you are in the U.S. then you can order dog food from here Dog and Cat Food, Treats, and Supplies | Free Shipping at Chewy.com and have it delivered to your house. They have most of the brands that are available and the prices are usually more reasonable then what you would find at a pet store. It's where I get a lot of my dog gear from, including food, since the local pet store's prices are very high and I don't drive so I can't get to the next town.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter #10 (Edited)
What are your local stores? What do they sell there? A 3 year old dog should, at the very least, not be eating puppy food.

Also, some trainers will come to you--though probably for a higher price. You just have to call around and see if anybody offers it.
He's a puppy, not a 3 year old dog. He has teeth coming in and acts like a pup, the vet confirmed it. The shelter lied.
My local store is Shop n Save, on the weekend we go to Target sometimes.
I have no control over this... parents don't think a trainer is needed or will work with our lifestyle. I've brought it up to them. (I'm 19 by the way).
@Rain (and any others)
If I were to order from that site, what food would you recommend and why?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,712 Posts
I'd like to reiterate that it's not enough to decide what you don't want your dog to do, you need to figure out what you would like him to do and teach him that.

For example, I hate it when people allow their dogs to corner people in the elevator of my apartment building for attention. Yes, the dogs are friendly, but not every person wants to pet the dog every time they get in the elevator.

I see plenty of people trying to stop this behavior by yanking on the leash, and/or saying "no", and then getting frustrated that their dog keeps on "misbehaving". What I did was teach Kabota to sit facing me on the elevator. I chose this because if he's sitting, he's not jumping on or cornering people, and if he's looking at me, he's not getting worked up about another person or dog.

That's what you need to do. Does he jump on you as a greeting? What do you want instead? Train that.

Also, he's a baby if he's just now getting adult teeth. Baby dogs are like baby humans. You wouldn't expect a baby human to be serious all the time, to read a book, to hold down a job, would you? Expecting a baby dog to act like a fully trained adult dog is just as unfair. Puppies jump, puppies chew things, puppies nip people, puppies have accidents. That's just how puppies are. If you truly can't accept him as he is, he needs to go back to the rescue.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
4,437 Posts
I'll be the lone voice saying that despite the many people who believe Purina dog food is the worst thing a person could feed a dog, it's not really. There are better foods out there but they are expensive. Feed the best you can afford or that your parents are willing to buy.

It is a bit of a stretch, in my opinion, to imply or suggest that this food is the reason this dog is high energy. He's a pit and that's a terrier and they are very high energy. He's also a young dog. Rather than focus on the one thing that probably is not a factor, reading the stickies that TiggerBounce provided will be helpful.

Remember that rewarding the behavior you want will make it more likely the dog will repeat the behavior. Dogs do what works. Dogs do lots of behaviors every day. They sit, they lay down and all sorts of other normal "good dog" behavior. Pay the dog for those good behaviors and you'll see them more often.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter #13 (Edited)
So I've started giving him treats when I see him laying down, chewing on a toy, whatever. But there's still issues, and they persist regardless of the amount of exercize we give him.
Around 7:30-8pm every day, he loses his mind. He just starts barking. We usually keep him in the living room because we don't want him getting all over the house, but we let him roam various times during the day. Today I let him out to eat and let him outside, and at 8 he still started barking. It's a wound up bark that I can't get him calm down from, he starts to jump and nip if you ignore him, and I CAN'T ignore him because my dad is trying to sleep upstairs. I put him in his crate (he's crate trained) and sometimes he'll even start barking in there, and I don't know what to do.
YES he has toys, all different types. This happens regardless of how much exercise he got that day, because it happens every day, same time until bed time.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,217 Posts
So I've started giving him treats when I see him laying down, chewing on a toy, whatever. But there's still issues, and they persist regardless of the amount of exercize we give him.
Around 7:30-8pm every day, he loses his mind. He just starts barking. We usually keep him in the living room because we don't want him getting all over the house, but we let him roam various times during the day. Today I let him out to eat and let him outside, and at 8 he still started barking. It's a wound up bark that I can't get him calm down from, he starts to jump and nip if you ignore him, and I CAN'T ignore him because my dad is trying to sleep upstairs. I put him in his crate (he's crate trained) and sometimes he'll even start barking in there, and I don't know what to do.
YES he has toys, all different types. This happens regardless of how much exercise he got that day, because it happens every day, same time until bed time.

How much and what exercise is he getting during the day, specifically?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,884 Posts
So I've started giving him treats when I see him laying down, chewing on a toy, whatever. But there's still issues, and they persist regardless of the amount of exercize we give him.
Around 7:30-8pm every day, he loses his mind. He just starts barking. We usually keep him in the living room because we don't want him getting all over the house, but we let him roam various times during the day. Today I let him out to eat and let him outside, and at 8 he still started barking. It's a wound up bark that I can't get him calm down from, he starts to jump and nip if you ignore him, and I CAN'T ignore him because my dad is trying to sleep upstairs. I put him in his crate (he's crate trained) and sometimes he'll even start barking in there, and I don't know what to do.
YES he has toys, all different types. This happens regardless of how much exercise he got that day, because it happens every day, same time until bed time.
He's probably bored.

Exercise is not always the solution. If you rely on exercise to tire a dog out, you will create an adrenaline junkie that doesn't know how to sit still and do nothing. You also have to TRAIN off switches in some dogs.

What sort of training do you do with them? Have you tried clicker training? What tricks does he know? He needs some mental stimulation.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter #16
Depending on the day, he'll get between 45 minutes to 2 hours. This consists of walk + general back yard play time/romping + laser pointer chasing (did I mention he does that, because he does).
We have yet to start clicker training, I keep dropping hints to mum but she doesn't quit get it.
He knows sit, lay down, speak, give paw, give other paw, give BOTH paws. Slowly working on the put the treat on the nose and have him catch it trick.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10,653 Posts
Depending on the day, he'll get between 45 minutes to 2 hours. This consists of walk + general back yard play time/romping + laser pointer chasing (did I mention he does that, because he does).
We have yet to start clicker training, I keep dropping hints to mum but she doesn't quit get it.
He knows sit, lay down, speak, give paw, give other paw, give BOTH paws. Slowly working on the put the treat on the nose and have him catch it trick.

I would stop playing with him with the laser pointer, some dogs can become very addicted to it and some also develop OCD with moving light. If your dog has that happen it can create a whole host of new problems Basically it's cute and fun, till it's not. Why Laser Toys Can Be Bad News for Your Pet
Behavior: Unhealthy Obsessions in Dogs | The Bark Since he likes to chase things you could substitute a flirt pole (dog toy attached to a rope attached to a pole) in place of the laser pointer. Most dogs find it tiring since it exercises their mind and body.

You don't have to have an actual clicker to work on clicker training your dog. You can substitute a marker word in place of the clicker, or make a clicking noise with your tongue. Some people actually prefer using a marker word since you'll never lose it, and it leaves both hands free.

I agree that he's likely barking due to being bored. It may also be his substitute for the evening zoomies. Either way have you tried playing with him before he starts the barking? If you know he starts barking around 8PM try playing with him around 7:50PM and see it that helps. You could also try training around that time.

If you really want to change his food, how many pounds of food does he go through in a month and how much are y'all wanting to spend? For instance, my boy eats Fromm and he goes through around 5 lbs of food in a month, the food cost me $13, and a 30lb bag of the same food cost $50 Fromm Four-Star Nutritionals Chicken A La Veg Formula Dry Dog Food, 30-lb bag . The food doesn't have to be that expensive.. Merrick is a good food and cost $40 for a 30 lb bag.

I've also been noticing that different brands sold in grocery stores have developed formulas what are decent, like this one by Iams Iams Grain-Free Naturals Chicken & Garden Pea Recipe Adult Dry Dog Food, 17.2-lb bag It's better then the plain Purina Dog Chow and similar dog foods, and you should be able to find it at the grocery, although if you do the math you can add a dollar or two and just get a 30lb bag of an even better food.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
5,884 Posts
Depending on the day, he'll get between 45 minutes to 2 hours. This consists of walk + general back yard play time/romping + laser pointer chasing (did I mention he does that, because he does).
We have yet to start clicker training, I keep dropping hints to mum but she doesn't quit get it.
He knows sit, lay down, speak, give paw, give other paw, give BOTH paws. Slowly working on the put the treat on the nose and have him catch it trick.
Is there some reason why you can't start clicker training him and doing all this training on your own?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
10 Posts
Discussion Starter #19
Prior to his barking he's napping from his walk, which is usually a few hours before. Should I wake him up from that and just start playing with him? We don't have a flirt pole yet, but I think my mum ordered one online. I always thought the laser pointer thing was an urban legend, but I'll inform parents. He doesn't really chase it as much as anticipate and follow it, and he barks at it (he doesn't watch anything else in relation to a laser pointer.). Getting the flirt pole will probably make him bark too, so that means it has to be an outside toy.
He doesn't get the concept of fetch yet, though we're working on it with him, and I don't want to do tug yet because he can get too excited. What other things can I play with him INDOORS? We thought about teaching him to 'find it' ie, hiding treats around the room. Our old dog, Jack, loved doing that. But isn't that too many treats in a day if we're doing the 50x thing?
His barking now has turned into nipping, and only at me. If he gets wound up he'll bark and nip at me. Only me, not parents.
I mainly haven't started it on my own because I'd be the only one using it, and I don't want parents to just undo whatever I'm working on with him.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
2,418 Posts
We thought about teaching him to 'find it' ie, hiding treats around the room. Our old dog, Jack, loved doing that. But isn't that too many treats in a day if we're doing the 50x thing?
Use his kibble for a majority of the treats and find it items, then mix in a few higher value treats.
 
1 - 20 of 24 Posts
Top