Hello everyone.

pierucki.robert said:

Hi.
I wrote more details of the situation in the thread I can copy as reply to you if you wish.

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No need to copy and paste anything. I posted that before you explained. I can always go back to the first unread [by me] and catch up.

It's amazing how often situations like yours happen. You leave your intact dog with the owner of another (male) intact dog, and lo and behold, when you come back, you find an unwanted pregnancy on your hands.

What made you think she was out of season? If it's because she stopped bleeding, that's an indication of the second, fertile stage of the heat.

You are the owner of the bitch, therefore you're the owner of the puppies. You offered a stud fee, she refused. If you have that in writing, you should, in theory, laugh her out of court.

Too late for the OP, but for the benefit of anyone else who finds themselves cornered in this situation who might be reading, an unwanted mating doesn't have to result in an unwanted litter. You can always take your dog to the vet for the mismate jab which will terminate any pregnancy. And if your vet won't administer it (because they're not breeding experts), find one that will. It can be given up til about 5 or 6 weeks, I believe, but the sooner the better.

pierucki.robert said:

The bleeding stop time before than was some discharge which stop as well. My wife was sure the fertile time was over, but I prefer be precaution in every situation that's why I asked the person who was suppose to take care about Lili to make sure nothing like that happened. During the scan we were explained that's why the litter was so small usually coyld have 6 to 10 but I was really suprised when I was told bitch can have pregnancy with two different males😃.
First time I see the situation a bit different when health visitor worried about mood asked me what happened. After the story she told me it's not the first time somebody breeded the bitch without owner permission.
Thanks guys.

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But, you said you you had “internet knowledge”, so presumably, you looked it up, and would see that once discharge and bleeding had stopped, the bitch was fertile. And if you had looked it up before you went away, why didn’t you join this forum (or petforums.co.uk) sooner?

Why would you grin ( ) at the fact bitches can be impregnated by two different males?

I’m just trying to understand why you didn’t act sooner. Your friend told you your bitch had been mated. You say you had internet knowledge of seasons, but the wealth of knowledge on the internet would have told you that once the discharge and bleeding had stopped, the bitch was entering her fertile stage and that they will only allow males to mount and tie with them once they’re receptive, so why didn’t you come here or the other forum sooner to ask for advice? We could have advised you about the mismate jab, which would have avoided all the problems you have now - the damage caused to the house by the puppies, the threats of the small claims courts, the attempted puppy theft.

Please now get you bitch spayed. It’s in her best interests. Every season you allow her to have puts her at risk of pyometra, a potentially fatal uterus infection, and the longer she remains intact, the bigger the risk of potentially cancerous mammary tumours.

And for the benefit of any other owner of an intact bitch out there; as well as the above advice about getting her spayed, let this thread be a lesson: if you’re about to go away on holiday when your bitch comes into season, either take her with you if possible, or stay at home with her.

pierucki.robert said:

If you like to know I think spayed should be sexual criminals not dogs for your or other owners comfort.

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Spaying? A sexual crime against dogs? Sorry, but that's hilarious.

Bestiality is a sexual crime against dogs, not a surgical procedure that can help save a dog's life.

But I think your attitude to your dog shines through in your later posts. Starting with the grin. I think you knew that your dog would be at her fertile stage just when you left her. I think if you really didn't want to risk breeding her, you would have boarded her with someone who didn't have dogs, under the strict instructions of not walking her in peak walking times, and under strict garden supervision. And in the event that she was still mated, you would have been on here a lot sooner, in a panic, looking for the advice you needed to end the pregnancy.

What you would not be doing, is offering a stud fee and grinning about the fact that a bitch can be pregnant by two sires at the same time. I think you saw pound signs when you realised she was pregnant. Given your "internet knowledge" you may have known about the mismate jab already, and waited just long enough before taking her to the vet so that the mismate was no longer an option, guaranteeing you puppies.

I think your main priority is your house, not the bitch's welfare. And therefore, the financial damage caused to the house by the puppies. The fact that you got lucky and she sailed through the pregnancy and birth without major complications hasn't even entered your head.

What I don't think, is that this will be your bitch's last litter, sadly.

Prove me wrong.

pierucki.robert said:

Lili would not harm the fly. The puppies put her off her bowl and she didn't react. I had to show her she need to take care about her bowl, because two puppies were taking advantage of her. I could be wrong but she would never harm anybody in home and you can trust me my son doesn't harm her they just playing and Lili on many occasions provoke the situation. But thanks for concerns. Worries about others seems not to popular.

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Most dogs would do anything to avoid harming a human. They give off subtle signals that they are not happy with the situation. Your dog was giving off those subtle signals in your first pic.

If/when these are missed, or in the dog's view, ignored, then the dogs ups the ante. The signals become clearer. The hackles rise, the dog's body becomes rigid, they start to curl their lips, showing their teeth. They growl, snarl, snap and finally bite.

If you cannot see the earlier signs and intervene, Lili will escalate the behaviour until she bites.

pierucki.robert said:

Spaying it's just results of people vanity in my opinion. You said it's protect bitch life, really.

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I've already explained that spaying reduces the risk of mammary tumours, which can be cancerous, and pyometra, a potentially fatal womb condition. Not to mention false pregnancies.

That's not "sexual assault", or "genital mutilation" (which is what I think you meant) and it's certainly not for mine or anyone else's "vanity". It's in the best interests of the bitch. Did I read that your vet has even advised you get her spayed, and you're ignoring that advice?

Says a lot.

pierucki.robert said:

. Would you propose it to yourself to prolong your life.

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A human woman's period and a bitch's season are very different things. For starters, women aren't spayed - they have hysterectomies. But yes, actually, if keeping my womb meant risking my life, I'd have the surgery.

pierucki.robert said:

It's like a extraction of all teeth to protect somebody from teeth decay??

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Tooth decay is entirely preventable by frequent brushing of teeth. Pyometra and mammary tumours in dogs are entirely preventable - and only preventable - by spaying.

pierucki.robert said:

If you like to know I think spayed should be sexual criminals not dogs for your or other owners comfort.

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pierucki.robert said:

To explain somehow society doesn't consider convicted rapists or paedophiles should be spayed

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Once again, there is a difference between sexual assault, and therefore, sex offenders, and surgery intended to prevent deadly diseases in dogs.