[Fidelis]

Hello everyone, i have a 4 and a half months old male livestock guardian puppy , greek mastiff (molossus). I got him since the age of 3 months. We have a house with a large yard where he lives. I have trained him basic obedience and to walk on a leash inside the yard and in general he looks quite trainable. He is lively but very suspicious of everything new...and anything that puts him ouside his comfort zone, he avoids and show s signs of fear...

The main problem that i needed advice is this: i have managed to take him outside of the yard only twice to get him to the vet for scheduled vaccination and only be picking him up and putting him in the car myself...also i tried to walk him outside but again he rufused so i had to pick him up again and get him in the car, and drive in rural area to start leash traing outside the house and socialize him.

The result is that he doesnt want to come out of the front door of the yard since then ( a week ago) and he is also very wary when thr door is left open and avoids it...i have tried everything to desensitize him with thta front door and repeated leash walking inside the yard but i see no progress.....

any advice appreciated....

 

[JoanneF]

Start with where he feels safe. If he feels safe with you carrying him, do that in new places. If he feels safe in the car, drive him around.

When he sees new things without being afraid, his confidence will develop. And as that happens, his natural curiosity will overtake his fears.

 

[Fidelis]

Start with where he feels safe. If he feels safe with you carrying him, do that in new places. If he feels safe in the car, drive him around.

When he sees new things without being afraid, his confidence will develop. And as that happens, his natural curiosity will overtake his fears.

Thank you for your response. Unfortunatelly he doesnt feel safe carrying him...he is 32kgr in weight already and carrying him is uncomfortable for everyone...and was one of the reasons that he got scared...a bit of a dead end...if i caary him i ll get things worst...and as you correctly mentioned above, he needs to see new things and develop his confidence...

 

[JoanneF]

What about taking him to the edge of his comfort zone? For example, if he is ok in your yard, sit with him at the edge and just hang out, let him watch what is happening outside the boundary. After a couple of days of doing that, sit a couple of feet further out. And so on.

 

[Fidelis]

What about taking him to the edge of his comfort zone? For example, if he is ok in your yard, sit with him at the edge and just hang out, let him watch what is happening outside the boundary. After a couple of days of doing that, sit a couple of feet further out. And so on.

i am doing this daily for the last week, using his favorite treats and toys, and making him come closer to the door. When the door is closed he even drinks and eats by virtually touching the door...when the door is open he changes path...deviates whatever he does for 1 meter at least away from the door...
i started doing all the above eg treats, games with the door slightly open, then a liitle bit more etc..but its like he put a boundary to himself and seems that we are really far off actually walking on a leash ouside thiw door....am afraid that he will grow older and it will be even harder....am i being too soft with him?should i include slight pressure with a slip lead together with the treats slowly?or am i going to make it worse?...should i let him mature a bit more and continue as im doing?i dont know..i am confused and i had many dogw before...

 

[JoanneF]

What is it like outside the yard? Is it a quiet rural area or a busy urban area? And what sort of environment was he in during the three months before you got him?

Remember his breeding too, he is hard wired to be suspicious.

 

[Fidelis]

What is it like outside the yard? Is it a quiet rural area or a busy urban area? And what sort of environment was he in during the three months before you got him?

Remember his breeding too, he is hard wired to be suspicious.

Glad you asked,for three months since his birth was lliving during the daytime with his father mother and sister in a big kennel in relatively rural area inside a very big car dealership yard. Every evening till next day all dogs would be free ouside kennel. The person that looked after them was very caring. the dogs were never mistreated whatsoever, however they had no other socialization except 2-3 persons in the yard and with each other.
Where we live now is a house with a big yard both paved and grass area and outside is relatively busy town street. He has no problem with people, cars, noises etc..he plays daily with a 3 y.o. kid....i think that these 2-3 times that i carried him to the doctor and for training combined with the car ride and the minimal exposure to the ouside world and his weary character as you said...started the problem.....

 

[JoanneF]

So if I understand correctly, he is happy enough in the yard Shere he sees and hears everything outside it, but he just won't step out?

 

[Fidelis]

So if I understand correctly, he is happy enough in the yard Shere he sees and hears everything outside it, but he just won't step out?

yes he is super happy in the yard, even his guardian insticts start developing correctly...but yes, he just wont step out...

 

[Fidelis]

yes he is super happy in the yard, even his guardian insticts start developing correctly...but yes, he just wont step out...

that one and only time when i carried him to a large rural confined space when he eventually got out of the car...with help...he walked around following us he accepted the leash and kept a somewhat medium stance, not confident but not overly scared( except an instance where he freaked out on the leash and started backward pulling), normal i believe for first time facing the unknown. But the process geting there scared him and i can not repeat it until he "willingly" steps out of the door...

 

[JoanneF]

Sorry, another question. Can you get your car into your yard?

 

[Fidelis]

Sorry, another question. Can you get your car into your yard?

yes it is possible through a garage door at the end of the lawn...i thought of it...to start training him getting in the car and getting used to it...but was not sure if i am going to make it more complicated and take longer....you think is better?

 

[JoanneF]

I think it's worth a shot. Start by getting him comfortable in the car then go for a short drive and back home to his safe place. Do that a few times, then maybe stop.somewhere and let him observe things from the cad. And build slowly to going somewhere and tempting him out of the car with a toy or treat, then back in, before attempting to walk somewhere with him.

 

[Fidelis]

I think it's worth a shot. Start by getting him comfortable in the car then go for a short drive and back home to his safe place. Do that a few times, then maybe stop.somewhere and let him observe things from the cad. And build slowly to going somewhere and tempting him out of the car with a toy or treat, then back in, before attempting to walk somewhere with him.

Thanks, i will give it a try. My only concern is because of his size and lack in strength he is not able to get in the car alone he will need some lifting again, he definately will be able to lift his front paws and touch the back sits to get a treat for example but then it ill take some lifting to get in and out. thats why i have chosen the out of the door method first...but either way he needs to get used to both car and walking

 

[Curls]

I'm thinking along the same lines as Joanne. See if you can make the car a comfortable place for him. I'd start this in very small steps. Make a game of asking him to get onto things or into things. Don't even start with the car.

At first simply encourage him to put all four paws onto novel surfaces: a scrap of carpet, a piece of cardboard, some boards lying on the ground together. Use a treat to lure him to step forward onto the weird surface. Praise him and give him a single treat the first time he puts a paw onto the unfamiliar surface. Keep encouraging him until he puts two paws on the unfamiliar surface. Tell him he's the best dog ever and give him a handful of treats when he finally puts all four paws onto the unfamiliar surface.

Use the same method to work him up onto and into more difficult obstacles. Encourage him to climb onto a low table, into a cardboard box, into your garden cart (if you have one that's sufficiently large and stable) into the bathtub, and so forth. At the same time you are doing this, make a game of going in and out of your yard gate and your garage door. Basically, he should think it's a game and a challenge that will end with treats and happiness every time he conquers a new obstacle.

Once he is comfortable with different obstacles around the yard, invite him to climb into your car. Don't go anywhere or even shut the door at first. Just praise him and give him a fistful of treats. Then ask him to get back out. Repeat several times over several days until he willingly hops in the car. Then practice shutting the door, getting in yourself, and feeding him his treats while you are sitting in the seat in front of him.

After a week of this, drive the car out into the street, then reverse and put it back into its parking spot. Treats! Treats! Treats! Repeat every day for a week. If he seems comfortable with this micro-tour, then take him on a drive around the block. (I'd really prefer shorter drive where he can still see your house, but it's not usually safe to do too much maneuvering on a public road.) As soon as you get home, Treats! Treats! Treats!

At each of these steps you may need to slow down and switch back to easier tasks for him. He should have plenty of opportunities to succeed and get treats without getting pushed too far outside his comfort zone.

 

[Laco]

If he is food driven, and if there is a special treat that you know he loves, try to lure him across that front door threshold with that special treat. He will likely grab it and run back inside, but that's ok and a start. Keep doing that, he will eventually discover that nothing bad happens, and he gets a great treat, and hopefully his confidence will begin to build.

 

[Fidelis]

Thanks for our answers! Curls, great idea to use simpler obstacles in order to make him get in the car easier. I will try it, and it will not be a problem. The part of making the in and out the door as a game am afraid that will remain the difficult part.
Laco, he is food driven until he reaches his mental threshold....fear of being taken out the front door...it then lies down and although salivating he doesnt move...we made progress we got close to the door with the best treats available....freshly cooked lamp, roast chicken, hot dogs......but stepping ouside seems impossible....thats why i thought of imposing some limitations to him slowly to show him that he cant back away all the time...i.e. the slip lead or the normal colar but by applying soft pressure while luring him to the treat and closer to the door...up to now i have been training him either free or with loose leash. Another issue is that behind him when getting closer to the door has a dog paradise....grass, toys, trees nice dog house etc...its not that he retreats to a confined space.... Its like saying i dont have a reason to go anywhere else....

 

[JoanneF]

he is food driven until he reaches his mental threshold....fear of being taken out the front door

That's pretty normal. It's part of the fight or flight stress response, to keep empty in preparation to have to react. Someone gave a great example here recently, if your house was on fire and someone offered you a cookie, you wouldn't be interested in it.

applying soft pressure while luring him to the treat and closer to the door.

Just be careful with this, in case you 'poison' the reward. By that, I mean he associates it with being forced out of his comfort zone (oh no, its lamb, they are going to make me go out again).

 

[Fidelis]

Just be careful with this, in case you 'poison' the reward. By that, I mean he associates it with being forced out of his comfort zone (oh no, its lamb, they are going to make me go out again).
[/QUOTE]
you are right, it happened the previous time when i carried him to the car...with a prepackaged simple treat..the super yummy treats make it a bit more difficult to resist...but yes...it needs caution...

 

[Curls]

I understand your concerns about the door being very difficult. I'd say work him up to it very slowly by letting him first just put a nose or a head through the door.

I had a dog that was terrified of my cellar steps. I have no clue why. He was fine on other steps, and I certainly never took him down to the cellar to beat him. I didn't bother working on the problem for a few years, as I had no need for him to go into the cellar. Finally, though, it became obvious he wanted to join me as I was doing chores in the cellar; he would lie in the doorway gazing down pitifully at me. He was just too scared of the steps.
I started slowly luring him down the steps. I put a treat on the top step, where he could reach it while lying in his spot in the doorway. Then I put a treat on the top step and the second step. He had to put a single foot on the top step in order to reach the treat on the second step. This was a big mental barrier. He spent quite a bit of time stretching his neck and repositioning his body before finally working up the courage to touch the step. I then put a treat on the top step, a treat on the second step, and two treats on the third step. He debated a bit before putting two paws on the second step, keeping his hind paws safely off the steps. Having eaten his treats he retreated back up the steps. Then I put a treat on the top step, one on the second, two on the third, and a pile of them on the fourth. Not realizing what he was doing, he put all four paws on the top two steps in order to reach the treats on the third and fourth steps. I completely ignored him as he was stretching for the treats. It was his decision to reach for them or not, stay on the steps or not.
Eventually, after following a treat trail all the way down the steps, he put his front paws on the concrete floor of the cellar. He looked up in total shock as it dawned on him where he was. He came over to me nervously wagging his tail. I gave him lots of treats and praise. Then he started running up and down the stairs in delight, showing off what a brave dog he was.

I'm thinking you might solve your doorway problem by slowly and undramatically luring him further and further out the door while giving him an unrestricted escape route back to the safety of the yard. You might want to keep a long line attached to him just so he doesn't escape if he does get brave enough to go all the way out the door.