Dog Forum banner
Status
Not open for further replies.

Fact or fiction...Pitbulls

17K views 64 replies 24 participants last post by  SpicyBulldog 
#1 ·
I have spent quite a few days this last week researching Pit Bulls and everything related, including what dogs fall into the mix.
After sifting through thousands of articles and social media attempts at trying to convince one way or the other, I have become deafened by both sides of the debate by senseless, shortsighted, and closed minded information.
I am on the fence if it is at all possible to have an objective and informative resource to get to the bottom of the hysteria regarding all things Pit bull, and I think if it can be achieved, this may be the place.

I ask that all participants keep an open mind and stick to documented facts from "reliable" sources.
Personal experiences can alter the objectiveness I am hoping for but welcome these experiences if the breed is not generalized by this experience.
eg...
Pitbulls are not bad, my kid plays with ours everyday and has never been bitten.
Or...
Pitbulls should be banned because my family member was attacked!

I would like to get to the bottom of the hype. What is true and what is fiction.
In regards to questions, it would be great to have answers backed up with a source so that the source can be verified or challenged as fact or fiction by a source.

BSL
Is this a last resort or is it a case of enough is enough?

Off leash/on leash/muzzle
Restriction of breed, look, character, or does it matter?

Pit bull to dog bite
Crazy/untrained Pit bull or defensive attributes?

Got a question? Ask.
 
See less See more
#2 ·
I would like to know if Breed specific laws work. I am not informed enough it seems to have an opinion and want the facts. I see so many contradicting statistics but do not know how Pit bulls seemingly become the source of instigation for these laws. Breeds that look similar can have entirely different breed traits and will be subject to these laws by a vague definition of breed like "Pit bull"
 
#26 · (Edited)
BSL is just that BS for Losers. I, thankfully, live in a province that hasn't enacted such stupidity although it's been discussed a few council meetings. BSL is the easy way out. A dog breed is causing news because it mauled someone? Ban it than obviously it will stop:eyeroll:. Dog's bite - period. Were the breeds that encompass "pit bulls" bred to not back down in a fight? Yes. However, so were German Shepherds, Doberman Pinchers, Rottweilers, Belgian Malinois, and even the Jack Russell. Ironically each have been considered "dangerous" breeds.

I don't own a pitbull, nor do I know that stats on them so I won't touch too much on their traits, however BSL is a death sentence for both bad dogs and good. For instance, your dog is a labrador/boxer cross that loves everything, has never attacked/bitten anything, and would rather jump off a building than harm a child or another animal, but someone decides it looks to "pitbull"- like therefore you have to muzzle it. People become afraid of your dog, because the muzzle denotes it's a bad dog even though it's not. Your dog gets things thrown at it in the street, people attempt to strike it while you walk down the sidewalk, scream at you and your dog, you feel scared for yourself and your dog. Your dog becomes scared too and becomes terrified of strangers, of sudden movements, of outside, and then one day your dog get's out of the gate and animal services catch it - your dog is now taken from you, thrown into a shelter for an "assessment" and determined to have the "possibility to be dangerous" because of it's "breed". You have been informed that your dog will not be released to you and instead you are given a date to for it to be euthanized unless you give up your dog and get it out of the province. And this poor dog is considered the bad? Ridiculous.

This happened to a friend of my family, her dog was the best dog ever until this happened. She now lives in Edmonton with my aunt and is recovering from a whole lot of fear issues regarding strangers who are carrying objects, walking toward her, yelling, and quick movements. But she's alive, many dogs that had similar stories occur aren't. Maize still is an amazing dog for what she's endured.

BSL doesn't stop bad people from creating bad dogs, no matter the breed. It also doesn't prevent stupidity in regards to dog behaviour, proper breed selection for owners, and ownership of human error. It does however, murder good dogs just because they either are born the wrong breed or look too bully like. It only works to punish the good dog owners.

Government needs to spend more time and effort on teaching responsible ownership, positive training methods, proper selection of breeds, making new laws to prevent BYBers, dog fighting rings, dog abuse, etc. instead. Heck, if I had it my way, I'd force prospective puppy buyers to have to go through a pre-adoption class and be forced to take a test before they even get to sniff a dog.

Oh, I've dug up so articles from the AVMA that discuss why BSL doesn't mitigate bite incidents.
http://nationalcanineresearchcounci... Dog Bite Risk_AVMA_FINAL w corrected URL.pdf
Breed-Specific Legislation (BSL) FAQ I NCRC

Sorry of the long response, the mention of BSL makes me mad :mad:
 
#3 ·
I have no experience with pitbulls, but here is what I think.

Pitbulls when trained (just like any dog) make good dogs. Also a dog reflects the owner. For some reason the pitbull appeals to shady people who don't treat the dog well. As a result the dog is of course bad. Just like any other type of dog in that type of circumstance.

BUT since pitbulls were bred to keep on attacking, even though the opponent is giving up and showing signs of submission, the breed is all the more dangerous when it chooses to attack. Though I heard that human aggression was bred out of them as much as possible by the people who bred them for fighting. So attacks are rare but fatal.

Please correct me if I am wrong. I am really curious what others have to say.
 
#4 ·
I have only ever met one aggressive pit-bull and that was when my rottie was 6 moths we were at the park (one of the first times we were there) and in comes an aggressive pit no warning whatsoever, went for my pup.
I have since learnt this dog is rarely out of the house, untrained, not neutered.

However, every pit-bull since then has been an absolute sweetheart!
One client in particular he insists on sitting in my lap every time he is in clinic!
 
#6 · (Edited)
we had BSL removed in a few states in Germany there were neither less nor more cases of SoKas acting aggressive towards humans or other dogs.
It's good for the shelters though at my local shelter 2/3 of the dogs there are part bully breed and people won't adopt them out when they pay 3 times as much for taxes than other companion breeds every month.
the BSL only hits the good owners that care. the owners that don't care to train their dog and pass the dog-leadership test often also don't register their dog and don't pay taxes. :I
laws are awesome, but informing people is much better.
not only on the dog owner side, but but also informing people without a dog, how they can help themself and prevent situations from excalating. a running child is much more likely to make a dogs chasing drive kick in, than a child acting calmer.
 
#7 ·
One thing that I think people neglect to acknowledge about BSL is that 80% of the time, being born a pitbull is a death sentence even WITHOUT BSL. They are, as I like to call them, the most popular puppies and the least popular adults. Shelters are crawling with pitties who got ditched as soon as they got too big, too strong and too exhuberant-- as soon as they no longer made their owner look 'cool'. They say that to walk into a shelter as a pittie is pretty much lethal.

I don't agree that they are monsters, but I do agree that they are more dog than most can handle. I don't believe it's "all in how you raise them". They are not bred to be mellow, biddable, tolerate-anything spaniels. They are terriers and can manifest all the traits that come with the territory: They are iffy with dogs, kids and small animals and can be energetic and even a bit temperamental.

Your question really hits home with me today as I got the news that a bully mix I had been helping to train was put down for "snapping at a child". Take that for what you will. I don't know the whole story yet, but I can't help but wonder if the story would not have ended so badly, had the dog been homed with a family that didn't have a small kid. IMO not a good fit for:

a) A dog not raised around kids (she was a rescue).
b) A terrier, a breed known to be on the mouthier, nippier side of the spectrum.

I don't know that a ban would really solve all problems, but I really wish bullies were less popular than they are. They are not bad dogs, some of them even make fantastic family pets (Thinking here of @MRSbullies' girl who 'mothered' a guinea pig) but I think they require a special type of owner that is prepared for every possibility about owning a 60 lb terrier.

@MrsCunningham WOW that's crazy legislation. I can't imagine that much can be done bylaw-wise if owners decide to let their dog run loose in the home, so long as nobody reports it. Still, that sounds like a crappy life for a dog. I'm surprised they wouldn't just ban them outright rather than stipulating that any animal spend most of their waking hours in a kennel.
 
#10 ·
I'm sorry for the dog. It's sad that dogs get killed for being brought to the wrong fmaily, because the new owner didn't do their home work researching. :(

I think this post tells everything.
Dogs aren't monsters, but there are a lot of dog breeds bred for one specific job and as awesome good they are at these specific tasks, their abilities to perform like that makes them a unfitting match for the typical 0815-dogowner.
It's a fact, that some breeds have special requirements to their owner and their new home and it has not only to do with how you raise thre individual dog.
Some breeds come with being prone to same-species aggression, some come with prey or protection drive... if you the new owner doesn't specifically state they know the risk and they can work with a certain behaviour or even want it, I'm all for discouraging people to own that kind of breed.
not only with SoKas but also with other breeds like JRTs for example.
I've seen so many fat, sad, badly behaving, neurotic JRTs. ;n;
 
#11 ·
I completely agree with @kelly528. People get so wrapped up in just thinking of them as "Pit Bulls" that everyone forgets about the "terrier" portion. A lot of their characteristics (feisty, mischievous, energetic, and smart) are simply terrier traits, not simply "pit bull" traits, and it doesn't help that they are BIG terriers. I have seen many people with pit bull puppies, since they are next level adorable, but then I never see them again as adults. I also see people really doing what they can to amp up the "meanness" factor of their dogs.

I've met super awesome pitbulls, and I've met nasty pit bulls. But I've also met nasty Aussies, Labs, and Goldens.
 
#12 · (Edited)
Since I see some comments in both directions (it's genetic/it's enviroment) just gonna put this here...
https://paws4udogs.wordpress.com/2012/12/10/its-all-in-how-theyre-raised/
and suggest looking at the research from Tufts and Dr. Dodman on behavior.
A dog's temperament is the result of both genetics and environment....
Genetics gives sort of a potential range for temperament. Environment seems to determine where in the range the dog will end up.

As for personal experience with bullies... The regular bullies at the facility I teach at and take classes (a couple mixed rescues, a PB Staffie, and a couple PB Am Staffs) are lovely. Some are good with any dog, others are more dog selective but not going to start anything due to training and management. They all are ok with dogs working around them and are friendly with people. Those I encounter in the shelter vary widely ime. Not surprising as most of these ''pit bulls'' are bully mixes (combos of different bully breeds, non bully breeds, and multi-generation mutts) and not exactly bred with a purpose or standard in mind. I personally find it really hard to generalize them and tend to just go with what I see in front of me.
 
#13 ·
I'll answer in blue.

BSL
Is this a last resort or is it a case of enough is enough?
The only thing BSL accomplishes is to cause law abiding owners to not own pit bulls. The ones that do not follow the law will still have them. It's also proven that BSL does nothing to lessen dog bite cases, only dog bites by the banned breed. Breed-Specific Legislation (BSL) FAQ I NCRC IMHO for BSL to work you'd have to switch to Species Specific Legislation and ban dog ownership. BSL does not stop careless, uncaring people from owning dogs and I think it's those that are responsible for the majority of dog bites.

Off leash/on leash/muzzle
Restriction of breed, look, character, or does it matter?
I'm not sure what you mean? Are you still questioning BSL or do you mean should Pit Bulls be muzzled, or kept on leash? If the latter, I don't think any breed of dog should be muzzled just because they are that breed, now if the dog is known to act aggressively then it should be muzzled regardless of the breed. I think all leash laws should be followed no matter the breed, and I think that it's best to err on the side of caution when it comes to pit bulls and just keep them on leash in public places and not take them to dog parks, simply because of the hysteria surrounding them. An example would be if I were to let my little, aggressive, dog run around loose and it ran up to a put bull, that was also unleashed, and attacked it, if that pit bull retaliated 10 to 1 the headlines would read loose Pit Bull attacked dog even though my dog was the one who started it. Now if that Pit Bull had been on leash the owner could fight the headline.

Pit bull to dog bite
Crazy/untrained Pit bull or defensive attributes?
Pit Bulls tend towards dog aggression, not all of them do but enough so that it's considered a trait in the breed. Some are fine with all other dogs and would never think of fighting, some hate all other dogs and would kill them given half the chance, most fall somewhere in between. If the dog is genetically predisposed towards dog aggression then all the socialization in the world will not cause it to be fine with other dogs BUT the owner can work towards getting the dog to tolerate other dogs and not go into must fight mode. Those who say that "It's all in how they are raised" are incorrect, but that's true of all breeds of dogs, genetics play a large part. Pit Bull Rescue Central
The Pitbull and Dog Aggression https://www.animalhumanesociety.org/training/understanding-dog-tolerance-pit-bulls


Got a question? Ask.
 
#14 ·
I agree with @kelly528 and @Shandula, a lot of their traits are terrier traits. My little 6 lbs terrier has a lot of traits I used to associate with pit bulls- she's very intense, everything she does she puts a lot of energy and emotion into. She has a very high prey drive and obsesses over water (hoses, fountains, waves) and squirrels. She also bites (toys, not people!) and WILL NOT let go. Because of these traits we've been working on impulse control stuff and "drop it."

I've met lot of pit bulls and mixes through working at daycares and at my local humane society and they vary how they get along with other dogs and animals. Some are the sweetest dogs with everyone, some have high prey drives, some are dog selective, some are dog aggressive. The dogs at my current job that can't be in high energy play groups are mostly pit bulls and mixes because they get so overstimulated and will try to break up play or bully or start fights. Usually fine in low energy groups with mellow dogs though.

That said, I've never met one that was human aggressive. I've been bit by a poodle, corgi, and little terrier/chi mix. The only dogs that have really scared me were a "silver lab," a maltese, an akita, and an American bulldog. The maltese and bulldog were more assertive in their aggression, barking and lunging at me. The "lab" and akita did that quiet, low growl, froze, and stared with "hard eyes." That was the scariest- those were truly aggressive dogs, I didn't even go near them. One was at the shelter and ended up being put down. Never had a problem with a pit bull being aggressive towards me though, and they're one of the most common dogs, especially when I worked at the humane society.

It's hard to find objective facts and opinions since the word "pit bull" is such a loaded and misunderstood term. Many people don't even know what a "pit bull" is and use it to describe a generic type of dog. Half the people are convinced that they're insane, evil monsters and the other half think they're perfect, flawless angels. The truth is they're neither and both of these views are equally harmful to the breed. They're just dogs.

Something to keep in mind about "pit bull attacks" is that most of that information and statistics come from the media, who are REALLY bad at identifying dog breeds- I've seen boxers, lab mixes, bulldogs called "pit bulls" though whether the media is doing this on purpose to create sensationalism or whether they genuinely don't know, I'm not sure. They also don't always report when another breed attacks. No one wants to read about a "poodle attack" or a "lab bite."

I'm not for breed specific legislation, but I do think dogs that are dangerous to the public should be euthanized. Dogs that have shown that they're a legitimate danger to people and other dogs. I think this would more effective and fair than BSL for reducing dog bites and dog attacks. I'm all for judging "the deed, not the breed." It bothers me when the pit bull people who say that don't follow through when a pit bull does attack though. They go to ridiculous lengths to justify what the dog did and "save it" even if that means separating it from its owners, keeping it isolated, defanging it, etc for the rest of it's life which I think is abuse.
 
#15 ·
I have done research, and BSLs so not work in reducing the number of attacks as far as I know.

In my opinion Pits, or what I consider most Pits--bully breed mixes, are not the dog for everyone. Like a German Shepherd, Rottweiler or Doberman, you should have dog experience before you own one because they are powerful and can be prone to aggression.

In my experience and research they can be wonderfully sweet, tolerant, and forgiving animals. They can also be a canine monster, who are genetically programmed and trained to kill. Many are something in between. Some don't do well with other dogs but that could be said about any breed. In my job we will sometimes have 4-6 intact bully mixes who don't know each other in a pen playing together. Even when some fights have broken out occasionally the bite inhibition some dogs demonstrate is nothing short of impressive. But Pits are held to much higher standards than other dogs because they're seen as so dangerous. Behavior that might be seen as normal aggression, exuberance, playfulness, or so on might be considered cute or funny in a Lab or husky, will be seen as threatening or scary in a Pit.

It is very, very hard to find anything non-biased about Pit bulls. It's like abortion or other issues where it's so far left or right it's crazy and you can't get balanced info. But I will say it's heartbreaking to be at my shelter and see nasty dogs of other breeds get adopted and pulled by rescues, while plenty of perfectly good (better dogs!) Pits get put down.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DrHarmony
#16 ·
I think that a lot of people who intentionally own pitbulls, by which I mean people who buy the dogs from breeders (mostly BYB) rather than rescuing a stray or shelter dog, do so for the exact reasons that Pit Bulls have such a bad reputation.

I think that that same desire for a 'tough' 'macho' dog that lead these owners to choose a pit bull also leads them to, probably inadvertently, raising the kind of dog that earns pit bulls that reputation.

This all based on feelings, I have no hard data.
 
#17 ·
I think what ive heard is that there is no statistical difference in dog bites and deaths after and before the introduction of BSL.

In fact the Dangerous Dog Act of 1997 (uk) was studied in my law class as a badly thought out and implemented legislation rushed through as a result of a moral panic.

Another even if we do accept the premise that pit bulls are dangerous how do you decide what is a pit bull if there isn´t a pedigree? A boxer mix or an english staffordshire terrier mix or off standard could easily be mistaken for a pit bull. They are not a very distinguishable breed.

And as others have mentioned its the same with any over popular breed whether its pit bulls, goldens and labs even poodles. I know in Iceland where it takes one bad litter of aggressive dogs to ruin the reputation of a breed, irish setters got a bad rap, chihuahuas, small poodles they got a bad reputation for a while because they were overpopular and overbred and bad individuals were allowed to breed.
 
#18 ·
The fact is... They're just dogs. The reason I think they often aren't perfect for first time owners if that many people don't acknowledge or want to deal with propensity for dog aggression and prey drive. Because they're large terriers, many can't live safely with other dogs or small animals. They can range from completely dog friendly to totally dog aggressive, just like any other type of dog. They just happen to be more likely to err toward dog intolerance and aggression than others. They are not more likely than any other dog to be human aggressive. Sure, you could have temperament issues with any shelter mutt due to poor genetics. But I wouldn't be more worried about a BYB bully breed over a BYB of any other similarly sized dog or larger.
 
#19 ·
I agree with all of the comments. My little mutt, who I think is a terrier mix, has a personality that seems quite similar to many of the pitts I've met. She is so passionate about everything that she can be quite overwhelming at times, even though she is less than 20 pounds. She also seems to have a high pain threshold, which is something that I've read about pitbulls. I can't count how many times she's run into me at full speed or enthusiastically jumped up at me and hurt me badly with her hard head.

About a year ago, I was playing with my dog using a big flirt pole, and as she chased the toy, she ran into my leg with such force that it caused my ankle to buckle and knocked me to the ground. I heard several cracks and felt so much pain that I was sure that she broke my ankle at first. I decided to wait it out, and eventually the pain subsided, but my ankle is still much more sensitive than before. I've never known another dog, especially a toy dog, that would hit me with such force. And she didn't even react once she hit me. It was like she didn't even notice!

My dog is just so exuberant about everything. When we visit my parents, she is so excited that she runs all over the place and jumps on the bed and all over my dad's papers and is basically like a crazy dog. I realize that I could probably tame her behavior with more training, but I've never had a dog with such an intensity as Skipper. She is adorable and very, very sweet, but it's like her passion just overwhelms her at times.

I can't imagine having a giant Skipper. I can barely handle her jumping and pulling and rambunctiousness sometimes, and she's just 17 pounds. If she tried some of her antics as a 40-pound dog, I don't know what I'd do.

I also think that sometimes people overreact to bad behavior from a bully breed, when they'd hardly notice the same behavior from another dog. My dad and I were doing some community service with a group at some downtown housing projects early this year. We were playing with some kids, and one of them had a pitbull puppy. When my dad started swinging a girl by her arms, the puppy, who had been quite friendly before, became upset and bit my dad's ankle. My dad will use that event to support his opinion that pitbulls can suddenly and inexplicably turn vicious. In my opinion, the puppy was just acting like an untrained terrier puppy. The kids were somewhat rough with it, and it didn't appear to be well-cared for at all. The sad thing is that the pitbull puppy will probably grow up to be an untamed, unpredictable dog, because of the environment it is raised in, thereby perpetuating my dad's generalizations.
 
  • Like
Reactions: purplesully
#23 ·
I agree with all of the comments. My little mutt, who I think is a terrier mix, has a personality that seems quite similar to many of the pitts I've met. She is so passionate about everything that she can be quite overwhelming at times, even though she is less than 20 pounds... I can't count how many times she's run into me at full speed or enthusiastically jumped up at me and hurt me badly with her hard head... About a year ago, I was playing with my dog using a big flirt pole, and as she chased the toy, she ran into my leg with such force that it caused my ankle to buckle and knocked me to the ground.........My dog is just so exuberant about everything. When we visit my parents, she is so excited that she runs all over the place and jumps on the bed and all over my dad's papers and is basically like a crazy dog...... I can't imagine having a giant Skipper...... If she tried some of her antics as a 40-pound dog, I don't know what I'd do.
My 60 pound 11 month old dog, Mauka, is JUST LIKE your Skipper. I had the hose out, and she ran at the water SO FAST that her mouth accidentally bumped my hand. That was three weeks ago and it is still is tender to the touch and has that sick yellow/green look of an old bruise. She runs around like a crazy thing when she's happy to see friends. She hates to hear a child cry (like when kids fuss over a toy) and will lick the kids in the face until they start laughing. OH, my goodness, Mauka IS a giant Skipper. You made me laugh!!!
 
#20 · (Edited)
The bull & terrier was the originator of the pit bull (and the staffie & the bull terrier) so for it to have terrier qualities is not unusual if you think about it. And I think that's where some of the problem lies - the average joe (so not thugs & want-a-bes) get a pit bull thinking that'd it is going to be more bully [bulldog, etc.] and are just not prepared for that dogged terrier attitude.

Unfortunately, the pit bull is the "fad" dog to the thugs - and BYB breeders - because of the demand. A few have mentioned that a pit is gotten because the owner wants to look tough, and that's what it is for a majority of people... they want to look tough.

BSL bans pits where I live, but that doesn't keep people from wanting to "look tough" [tattoos (gang or prison) and/or excessive scarring in highly visible places, etc., getting nasty dogs (there's a guy here who has a rottie mix that is definitely ill trained & behaves badly)]. In my job we work with druggies / criminals and other thugs all the time, 70 even 80% of the dealings with the "tough guys" is nothing more than posturing on their part and if you don't flinch they're the ones backing down.


But ultimately it's not entirely the breed's fault - though certainly a dog aggressive breed doesn't help in that respect - however, proof of it is more the human's fault... in the 90s, a large majority of dog to human attacks were rotties according to bite stats websites.

And I mean, any dog is as capable of attacking given the "right" conditions. Ill training, owner with no control / discipline, nervous dog [human], etc. My aunt just last weekend was telling me how she watched as what was later proven [cause cops were definitely called, along with animal control] a Mastiff took off from its owner (whose recall was garbage) and viciously mauled a young Standard Poodle at the dog park in front of her and the poodle's owner. The Mastiff only let go of the poodle - it was shaking the poodle like a rat - when a man ran up and pretty much kicked the dog in the side of the head [sure not exactly humane but the Mastiff's owner was standing like a slack jaw apparently and neither aunt nor poodle's owner wanted to tangle with the Mastiff in case it turned on them].

Yet if you asked the average person what they thought of an Mastiff the common response would be - big "dopey" dog. Hardly vicious / not dangerous.
 
#21 ·
~~From the inside looking out~~
My dog is an 11 month old bully breed mix (it's been argued weather boxer or American Bulldog), one parent is a pure mutt. She could easily be labeled "pit bull mix" by shelters and/or general public because of her appearance.

~ Negative aspects of my baby, and I will be painfully honest...
At times overly protective at the sight of perceived threats (the rake leaning on a tree for example)... will growl at shadows in the dark... given the opportunity would chase and most likely hurt a cat... VERY strong... Gets bored easily while training... dislikes men she does not know... gets WAY TOO excited to see us after being out for an hour and has knocked the kids over

~ Positive traits.... Again, I will be painfully honest by not exaggerating.
Easy to train in short lessons... naturally submissive (but most of her siblings had more dominant or independent personalities)... protective... checks on family members during thunder storms.... sympathetic... inquisitive... loves to greet new people or dogs... loyal... generally well behaved (but that one goes for any young dog with consistent positive training).

From the outside looking:
Down the road from me there is a guy who has a history of selling drugs and dog fighting. He has "pit bull" type dogs that he regularly breeds. These dogs, bark at people walking by, posture threateningly, and look dangerous. I do not know these dogs personally. They might be very nice dogs that happen to be protective, but two of the dogs have heavy chains attached to trees and one has a muzzle all the time.

~~~ That is my personal experience with what society would call a "pit bull". I tried to keep opinion out, but Mauka is my baby so you can decide what is or what isn't objective.
 
#22 ·
From the outside looking:
Down the road from me there is a guy who has a history of selling drugs and dog fighting. He has "pit bull" type dogs that he regularly breeds. These dogs, bark at people walking by, posture threateningly, and look dangerous. I do not know these dogs personally. They might be very nice dogs that happen to be protective, but two of the dogs have heavy chains attached to trees and one has a muzzle all the time.
You should report this to the Humane Society if you know he's fighting dogs and/or selling them for fighting.
 
  • Like
Reactions: cos
#25 ·
BSL
Is this a last resort or is it a case of enough is enough?
I think that it is really done for political reasons or in a misguided effort. The only benefit would probably be a reduced population of an overly popular breed.

Off leash/on leash/muzzle
Restriction of breed, look, character, or does it matter?
I don't think restrictions should apply. That's a form of BSL. Though I think owners should have common sense not to let their dogs run at large.

Pit bull to dog bite
Crazy/untrained Pit bull or defensive attributes?
Usually neither. You can't put bites in a neat box. Some are unstable with or without training. Some are trained to bite. This breed typically lacks defense drive.

I don't agree that they are monsters, but I do agree that they are more dog than most can handle. I don't believe it's "all in how you raise them". They are not bred to be mellow, biddable, tolerate-anything spaniels. They are terriers and can manifest all the traits that come with the territory: They are iffy with dogs, kids and small animals and can be energetic and even a bit temperamental.
People who think it's all in how you raise them are living in a fantasy world.

I find them to be biddable though as a breed they have a range. The willingness to please transfers to biddability.

Dogs and small animals yes. Kids not iffy at all. I certainly wouldn't use kids and temperamental in the same sentence. Maybe I'd say kids and tolerant, yes. Don't have any sources so it is speaking from personal experience I use to be a kid once upon a time and now I'm a mom. This breed loves attention from people and seek it from kids.

I think parents should teach kids properly. No matter what the breed. How often does it happen a dog isn't too tolerant of is pushed to the edge and has made all signs it wants to be left alone, even tries so get away from a child and parent does nothing? Not until the dog nips the kid who's pulling him by the tail.

Your question really hits home with me today as I got the news that a bully mix I had been helping to train was put down for "snapping at a child". Take that for what you will. I don't know the whole story yet, but I can't help but wonder if the story would not have ended so badly, had the dog been homed with a family that didn't have a small kid. IMO not a good fit for:

a) A dog not raised around kids (she was a rescue).
b) A terrier, a breed known to be on the mouthier, nippier side of the spectrum.
Not an ideal situation it doesn't sound like. It is unfortunate for the dog but I hope the child was okay. "Snapped at" doesn't sound like they were injured though if a next time would have been allowed it could have been different.

As to the part in bold don't know about other terriers but that is NOT a trait of the APBT. The only few times I've seen this was in Pits clearly exhibiting separation anxiety.

The bull & terrier was the originator of the pit bull (and the staffie & the bull terrier) so for it to have terrier qualities is not unusual if you think about it. And I think that's where some of the problem lies - the average joe (so not thugs & want-a-bes) get a pit bull thinking that'd it is going to be more bully [bulldog, etc.] and are just not prepared for that dogged terrier attitude.
It's true the traits are similar to those found in other terriers. I've pointed this out to people who seem to think the traits unique to the Pit Bull and cause for them to be dangerous and like no other dog. When terriers are tenacious, do keep hold, are pretty fearless and some show higher threshold for pain. ...but these are also traits of bulldogs too tough, keep hold, high pain threshold. It is one reason why Pits are referred to as bulldogs because of these traits.
 
#28 ·
I've met pitbulls whom I found quite nice and pitbulls I wouldn't go near. In both cases, my reaction was based on behavior, not breed. Having had one knock over an older, small dog of mine repeatedly as we walked our regular walk route a couple of years ago (after slamming into me so hard that I ended up with a slightly injured wrist on his way to get to my dog), I am definitely more cautious around them when with my leashed twenty pound dog. To be perfectly fair, the same week, I was walking the exact same small dog and another pit bull came out of nowhere, just as the first hand, and I put myself between that dog and my dog and told it, in no uncertain terms, to stay away from us, and it immediately hit the ground and looked as if it might cry. I apologized and it wagged its tail and looked relieved, but it did stay back and away from us when I insisted upon it. Even if it was a friendly dog, the size differential worried me, as its idea of play could have become too much for my smaller older dog, and for me, as I was recovering from shoulder surgery and had only recently gotten out of my sling.

I think the problem for pitbulls is complex. Part of it is that there are simply too many of them because they are, at the moment, a popular and profitable breed, leading to too many of them being poorly bred. Their numbers are far greater than the number of appropriate homes/owners available for them. The controversy surrounding them also leads to the two worst types of owners they could possibly have getting their hands on them: those who want them to portray a "tough" image and/or fight them and those who want to prove how unfair their reputation is but who are completely unprepared and/or ill-equipped to handle a big, strong dog with a prey drive appropriately. I was in a class with a couple who fit into the last category and their Angel (the dog's name--I'm not being sarcastic) may have been the "good dog" they kept describing her as at home, but she was not a good candidate for therapy dog training because she was definitely dog reactive. She went after everything from a toy poodle to a sizable labradoodle for no other reason than that she apparently felt they were uncomfortably close to her. They weren't any closer to her than would be normal in a training class, but it was too much for her, and her owners couldn't handle her when she got aggressive because one had a bad knee and the other a bad hip. Why they thought a big, strong, young dog was a good fit for their situation, I have no idea, and it also irked me that they kept going on about how people were so quick to misjudge pitbull behavior, when their dog kept reinforcing all the stereotypes they wanted to destroy because they couldn't handle her and didn't understand--or want to admit--that she just wasn't going to be able to pass the TDI test, as she wanted nothing to do with other dogs being within ten feet of her, and the more they kept denying that, the more miserable and reactive she was going to be. Maybe with a lot of training with an appropriate owner, she would have gotten better, but as it was, it wasn't going to work, and all they were doing was upsetting their dog and everyone else in the class, who, quite logically, didn't want their dogs near that pitbull because of its behavior, not its breed. If it had been a snarling, snapping cocker spaniel who went after other dogs, I wouldn't have wanted my dog near it either.

Honestly, for everyone's sake, including the various breeds that make up the group commonly referred to as pitbulls, I wish their popularity would start fading because if it did, dogs and people would probably be better off as then there would be fewer poorly bred pitties out there and fewer dogs in the wrong hands/homes.
 
#30 ·
I completely agree that so many people who own bully breeds ("pit bulls" or whatever they want to call their dog) shouldn't. A lot of them are owned by older bleeding heart rescue people who won't admit their dog has strong prey drive and may not be perfect with other dogs. They end up bringing their adult pits to dog parks and are SHOCKED when they don't do well in large groups of strange dogs! Of course the people who use them for status symbols or to look cool and/or scary are just as bad and are completely ill-equipped to own any dog, let alone a strong terrier. Believe me, when my dog sees a squirrel she is NOT messing around - she's strong!
 
#32 ·
This has happened a lot in our town lately. Small dogs ripped limb from limb by DA bullies. Then you keep reading the story... OH WAIT-- the dog had a bite history, was supposed to be muzzled in public, not on a lead longer than 6', etc. etc. etc., and the owners were not taking the restrictions seriously when they lost control of their dog and they killed another dog.

I wish I could say I knew the answer. It's such an obvious pattern. Clearly municipalities cannot have doggy "parole officers" following these dogs everywhere but I think if the owners are caught violating restrictions... $10,000 fine. Boom.
 
#33 ·
To the original post - I just think about the breeds that have already gone through these witch hunts. Dobermans, GSD's and Rottweilers for example.

These are all dog breeds, along with the Pitbull that went through a fad stage.
There was a high demand for them, lots of BYB, mostly no screening potential owners and the typical training methods not at all suited for dogs.
Along with the fact that a lot of those dogs were not socialized, they were yard dogs and people just didn't know about reactivity like we (mostly) do today.
Right away they were labelled aggressive.

I don't think Pitbulls are for everybody, same as I think a Beagle isn't for everybody.

There is a "right breed" for everyone out there but you need to be honest with yourself and what your needs and capabilities are.
Not just say - I want a Pitbull because they are cool.
 
  • Like
Reactions: DrHarmony
#38 ·
The only pitbull I know is my daughter's pitbull (probably) pointer mix. He is a sweetheart. He was rescued as a one-year-old by my daughter's boyfriend's mother. Unfortunately, her JRT didn't get on with him, so her son and my daughter took him in. Since then he as blossomed into an awesome well-behaved dog. He is now 6. He is very tolerant of my five-year-old mastiff who despite his age is still very puppy-like when he plays. Never once have they fought and are besties.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
You have insufficient privileges to reply here.
Top