Doppler/Dog Euthanasia - Trigger warning

9941 Views 51 Replies 16 Participants Last post by zoorun, Feb 26, 2016

Kwenami

Discussion Starter · Feb 25, 2016

Hi guys :'(

As some of you know, I took on a foster recently, flown to me. Doppler is a 5 year old JRT who is the cuddliest and so eager to learn.

His flaws? Not house trained, barrier frustration, lack of impulse control in conjunction with a super high prey drive towards my rabbit, severe resource guarding, will bite when RGing or having his nails done.

Nobody else seems to want to take him to foster (unsurprisingly) and nobody is wanting to adopt, let alone the family that would be right to suit his needs. I'm not able to take care of him any longer-I'm unemployed and paying for him to have his own bedroom because he was doing so poorly, and any potential roommate aren't going to want their room smelling like his accidents either. In addition to the screaming when he's near people, biting issues, etc. As an aside, there's no heat on in that room-I can't afford to turn it on, and any potential roommate would be paying half the hydro.

My question is about what to do next. I took him on in hopes of getting him adopted and wanting to foster fail if I could resolve some of the issues. He's more stressed now that I've moved and I don't see the same improvement, actually there's been lots of regression, and he's stressed 100% of the time unless I can leave the house and he can calm down in his room alone.

My options seem to be:
-look at a no-kill shelter, have him potentially get bounced to a kill shelter as they don't always have the resources for this, he doesn't do well in kennels for sure.
-look at a kill shelter and let them decide
-look at a kill shelter and stay with him while they euthanize

The rescue I managed to get him posted with hasn't come to meet him and I've given them a heads up this is a possibility; they have no fosters equipped to handle him and told me I was a bad trainer for not fixing these issues. They also recommended a traditional trainer who is know for use of prong collars to take him for rehabilitation-I'm pretty sure I would be committing abuse if I did this, so I've left this option off the list. None of the other trainers I like in the area do board and trains-with one exception, someone takes one of the politician's dogs for a hefty price tag I'm sure.

I think I know what needs to happen next for his best welfare but if he found a home with no kids/animals that was willing to work with him, he could do soooo well.

Help.

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Aspen726

· #2 · Feb 25, 2016

@Kwenami - Oh my... I am SO sorry this is happening. I give you so much credit for trying. I know this isn't any help but please know that whatever decision you make, you'll have at least one person supporting you- me. You have done more for Doppler than many other people would have. Please keep us posted.

Reactions: 2

Aspen726

· #3 · Feb 25, 2016

@Kwenami - Oh my... I am SO sorry this is happening. I give you so much credit for trying. I know this isn't any help but please know that whatever decision you make, you'll have at least one person supporting you- me. You have done more for Doppler than many other people would have. Please keep us posted.

Aspen726

· #4 · Feb 25, 2016

Sorry for the double post... DF is funky the last couple of days

Shandula

· #5 · Feb 25, 2016

@Kwenami - I'm so sorry.

That really, really stinks, and I'm sorry you're in this position. First of all, screw that rescue - you've been working like crazy with Doppler, so to call you a bad trainer is not only cruel, it's just wrong.
I really think you have to decide what to do, and I think you need to take a long hard look at him just as he is. Could he REALLY do well in an appropriate home or are you just really hoping he would because it would avoid a pretty heartbreaking situation.
Whatever you decide to do, we know you've done everything you can, and I support your decision. Good luck to you.

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Grabby

· #6 · Feb 25, 2016

Such a difficult decision. One that no one wants to face. From what I've seen, you've worked very hard to help Doppler and have made progress. The sad truth is that some dogs need such lengthy specialized training and behavior modification that finding another qualified foster is almost impossible. Finding an adopter is even more difficult.

Euthanasia is sometimes the best decision. My honest opinion is that if I take in a dog and I'm faced with making this decision or passing the dog off in hopes that somehow things will work out, euthanasia it the most humane choice. You've got my full support if you choose to euthanize. I have loved seeing Doppler pics and hearing about him but I'm not naive about how difficult it's been. You have done your best and making sure he doesn't end up in a terrible, frightening situation may be the best thing you do for him.

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SusanLynn

· #7 · Feb 25, 2016

I have to agree with Grabby. I know from reading all of your posts about Koda that you are a very dedicated trainer and that, with Koda, your efforts have paid off. I very much doubt that Doppler would make enough improvement with another trainer to eventually become adoptable. Your story reminds me quite a bit of inkii and the heartbreaking decision she had to make with a foster dog that bit unpredictably two years ago. In the end, she had to console herself that she had given him a name, a home, her best efforts, and a chance. That's what you have given Doppler.

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revolutionrocknroll

· #8 · Feb 25, 2016

The only solution I can think of is to find a trainer who would take him on- one who specializes in working with difficult dogs and/or rescues- then set up a gofundme to help pay for the board and train? A rescue in my area will fundraise to send dogs to trainers out of state to stay for a few weeks. No guarantee that it would help though, especially considering that you've done quite a bit work with him already. And there's always the risk that he will revert back to old behaviors once adopted out to owners who might not stay on top of his training and management.

I'm so sorry that you have to make this decision.

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jclark343

· #9 · Feb 25, 2016

My thought is, you're a very educated dog owner. If you are feeling that you have reached your limits, then maybe the best choice is Euthanasia. No one would want to see him get bounced through rescues, only to eventually be put down alone. At least with you, he will know he was loved.

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Tickle

· #10 · Feb 25, 2016

I'm sorry that you are having to make such a difficult decision. (((Kwenami)))

Reactions: 3

SusanLynn

· #11 · Feb 25, 2016

jclark343 said:
My thought is, you're a very educated dog owner. If you are feeling that you have reached your limits, then maybe the best choice is Euthanasia. No one would want to see him get bounced through rescues, only to eventually be put down alone. At least with you, he will know he was loved.

Yes, this. I'm concerned that even if the rescue were to raise the funds for intensive rehabilitation with a specialized trainer that Doppler would end up with an adoptive family that couldn't continue the level of training and conditioning that he might require for the rest of his life.

Gnostic Dog

· #12 · Feb 25, 2016

SusanLynn said:
Yes, this. I'm concerned that even if the rescue were to raise the funds for intensive rehabilitation with a specialized trainer that Doppler would end up with an adoptive family that couldn't continue the level of training and conditioning that he might require for the rest of his life.

With the "right" kind of rehabilitation, he wouldn't need life-long conditioning. The standard model of behavior modification isn't going to cut it because it is not approaching his issues from the correct understanding of how dogs function. He needs someone who can work with his prey drive to facilitate flow and appropriate stress relief. Doppler, in my opinion, is not a hopeless case, difficult yes, hopeless no.

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jclark343

· #13 · Feb 25, 2016

Gnostic Dog said:
With the "right" kind of rehabilitation, he wouldn't need life-long conditioning. The standard model of behavior modification isn't going to cut it because it is not approaching his issues from the correct understanding of how dogs function. He needs someone who can work with his prey drive to facilitate flow and appropriate stress relief. Doppler, in my opinion, is not a hopeless case, difficult yes, hopeless no.

Unfortunately, what may be hopeless is finding someone who is willing to take in a dog that is going to need this much time to even begin to seem like a normal dog. Unfortunately, there are not a ton of dog owners with that kind of knowledge that are willing to take on another dog.

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Gnostic Dog

· #14 · Feb 25, 2016

I can no longer edit my post, but I do want to add to the above, that in no way I am saying @Kwenami is a bad trainer, just that she might not have been using the best methodology to get the results she wanted.

Gnostic Dog

· #15 · Feb 25, 2016

jclark343 said:
Unfortunately, what may be hopeless is finding someone who is willing to take in a dog that is going to need this much time to even begin to seem like a normal dog. Unfortunately, there are not a ton of dog owners with that kind of knowledge that are willing to take on another dog.

True, but the techniques that can help Doppler, and probably get quick results are easy to learn and do. It's just that there are very, very few trainers who know these techniques and understand what they are doing with them, as they do not utilize traditional behavior modification techniques or dominance/pack leader methods either.

jclark343

· #16 · Feb 25, 2016

Gnostic Dog said:
True, but the techniques that can help Doppler, and probably get quick results are easy to learn and do. It's just that there are very, very few trainers who know these techniques and understand what they are doing with them, as they do not utilize traditional behavior modification techniques or dominance/pack leader methods either.

Doesn't help the situation at hand, that funds are low and the dog isn't working out. Like you said, few people know the tricks, and I can imagine those few people aren't lining up to take on problem dogs that they aren't going to get paid to train. That's the problem. Kwenami can't offer the life the dog deserves, but can't find a person who is equipped and wants to take on a problem dog.

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kmes

· #17 · Feb 25, 2016 (Edited)

Granted, I haven't followed super closely, but much of what I have read suggested things were going pretty well with him, except house training...
I see you moved and he has regressed. Probably somewhat normal sue to stress. But did something else happen to suddenly change how you feel about him?

If it is no longer feasible for you to foster, then the rescue group you are fostering for really should be stepping up to find another, more suitable placement. Fosters normally can't make the decision regarding euth for behavior problems, placing a dog, or surrendering to another group without permission as the dog belongs to the rescue. Fosters normally work with/share their opinion with the rescue board/officers to make those decisions, but ultimately the ok is given by those in charge of the rescue.

Have you worked with a trainer on the more severe issues like rg and nail trims? Books and other educational sources really are great. So much can be learned and applied. But still not the same as working with someone more experienced in person. If progress stalls or is not made when working alone, it's time to seek out help. Behavior mod success is often in the details... it's not unusual for it to take a second set of knowledgeable and experienced eyes watching to work out the kinks.

What's been done with a vet? Potty training issues investigated and anxiety addressed with meds if need be?

Also he just recently went up for adoption right? Unfortunately, the downside to rescue groups is that it often takes time to place dogs. Lack of a physical location people can go to look at dogs, means they need to rely on meet 'n greets and social media/pet listings.

It often takes a ton of social media shares (you actually get a very low number of eyes seeing the listing that are in the area, looking for a dog, and are going to be a good fit) and meet 'n greets (same issue with petco/petsmart meet 'n greets as most people passing by are not actually there looking to add a dog) to find the right adopter. It just takes time... sometimes a very long time for rescues to place dogs. Something all fosters should be told before taking on a foster dog.

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SusanLynn

· #18 · Feb 25, 2016

Kwenami can explain more, but in another thread she mentioned that Doppler was a puppy mill dog that an acquaintance of hers had. From what I understand, the dog did not come through a rescue, but that Kwenami's managed to find a rescue group that has agreed to post Doppler for her. Ultimately, Kwenami, not the rescue group, may be responsible for determining the best course of action to take.

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kmes

· #19 · Feb 25, 2016 (Edited)

SusanLynn said:
Kwenami can explain more, but in another thread she mentioned that Doppler was a puppy mill dog that an acquaintance of hers had. From what I understand, the dog did not come through a rescue, but that Kwenami's managed to find a rescue group that has agreed to post Doppler for her. Ultimately, Kwenami, not the rescue group, may be responsible for determining the best course of action to take.

If that's the case then, it sounds like she may be Doppler's owner and certainly have the legal right to do what she wishes.

However, just want to say for any potential fosters reading... if wanting to foster a dog, really research rescue groups, and apply/sign up with a good reputable group. It avoids so much trouble that can arise when fostering for less reputable groups or even taking on ownership of dogs with the intent to ''foster and rehome'' down the line...
Reputable rescue groups pay for vetting and often other expenses. They market their dogs. They are there to place in a different foster home if something happens. They have an adoption process set up to help weed out unsuitable homes. Etc. Avoids getting stuck with animals that are not a good fit long term or having to make tough decisions as you are actually the owner, not a foster.

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Gnostic Dog

· #20 · Feb 25, 2016 (Edited)

jclark343 said:
Doesn't help the situation at hand, that funds are low and the dog isn't working out. Like you said, few people know the tricks, and I can imagine those few people aren't lining up to take on problem dogs that they aren't going to get paid to train. That's the problem. Kwenami can't offer the life the dog deserves, but can't find a person who is equipped and wants to take on a problem dog.

But she can do these things herself, it isn't rocket science, and the information is readily available. But because it doesn't fall in with OC/behavioral modification nor more traditional dominance methods, it gets ignored. But I can assure you it does work. There is a researcher in Sweden that is currently working on these techniques vs behaviorist techniques and they are proving to be much more effective in treating dogs with PTSD (which is generalized anxiety).

ETA: these exercises are not tricks, they are tried and tested techniques.

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